Synthetic Winch Rope Questions

[ShredAZ]

New winch owner here. I picked up a lightly used Warn XD9000i with 125' of 5/16 steel cable.
First thing I did was unravel and inspect the cable to which I discovered a massive flat spot/kink. I was already on the fence about running steel, so I'm using this as an opportunity to convert to synthetic.

As superior as these products are, my intended application will not support the price point of Viking, TRE, Warn, or Masterpull.
That said, I've researched this topic to death and have narrowed down my choices to:

1. A.R.E 7/16 x 100' Spider Silk ($140)
   • House brand for CO based Olympus Offroad.
2. Custom Splice Dimondback 3/8 x 100' ($190; Special one-time offer)

The A.R.E. option is appealing due to price, but they do not offer their rope in 3/8.

My questions are simply this:

1. Is 7/16 overkill for my application?
2. If 100' of 3/8 fits on my spool, how much less length would be needed for 7/16?
3. Any other options <$200 I'm not considering and should be?

This thread will be rewarded with pictures.

 

[ShredAZ]

I reached out to Olympus Offroad to pick their brain.

Olympus uses 7/16 Dyneema SK79 rope, but the line is compressed and pretensioned during the manufacturing process. As a result, final measurement is 10.2mm which is extremely close to 3/8. 100' of this will have no problem spooling on my winch.

That, plus the no questions asked 3 yr warranty had me sold. I'll report back once it arrives.

 

[jjvw]

100ft is too much and can lead to the rope bunching up on one side during a side pull. You want about 80-85ft on the drum after the thimble is spliced on.

Also, make sure the hawse is appropriate for synthetic and that the hawse mount fully clears the hawse opening. There can be no sharp edges for the rope to come into contact with.

 

[ShredAZ]

100ft is too much and can lead to the rope bunching up on one side during a side pull. You want about 80-85ft on the drum after the thimble is spliced on.

Also, make sure the hawse is appropriate for synthetic and that the hawse mount fully clears the hawse opening. There can be no sharp edges for the rope to come into contact with.

I appreciate the reply!

I am not running a Hawse. I am running a brand new Warn roller fairlead. Synthetic rope requiring a Hawse fairlead has long since been debunked. Deburred (or new) roller fairleads work fine and my bumper requires the additional clearance of the rollers (ARB style bull bar with a recessed fairlead mount).

I've already deburred the spool and repainted with engine paint. That's good to go as well.

The XD9000i has larger clearance due to the integrated solenoid than the more common Warn winches (M8000, XD9000, etc). So while your 80' rule holds true for those winches, the XD9000i can accommodate 100' ft of synthetic 3/8. Remember - it came with 125' of 5/16 cable from the factory. I can always shorten if need be.

In winching, less is more, but good anchor points are scarce out in the desert. Having the extra 20' is worth my peace of mind

 

[L J]

The XD9000i has larger clearance due to the integrated solenoid...

I have a 9.5XP-S but I'm not familiar with the XD9000i. Does it sit higher off the deck?

In winching, less is more, but good anchor points are scarce out in the desert. Having the extra 20' is worth my peace of mind

"winch rope extension"

 

[someguysjeep]

neither, i spend 10$ more and get the TRE.
both of those have tight weaves. and 1 has an over wrap, they don't look easy to splice.

or another 12 strand dyneema, 3/8" has about a 20k rating. and it's not hard to splice.

 

[jjvw]

I appreciate the reply!

I am not running a Hawse. I am running a brand new Warn roller fairlead. Synthetic rope requiring a Hawse fairlead has long since been debunked. Deburred (or new) roller fairleads work fine and my bumper requires the additional clearance of the rollers (ARB style bull bar with a recessed fairlead mount).

I've already deburred the spool and repainted with engine paint. That's good to go as well.

...

I ran a roller on my synthetic for a short time too. I still prefer a hawse for a couple reasons. But the same rules apply. The fairlead mount opening still needs to fully clear the fairlead.

 

[mrblaine]

neither, i spend 10$ more and get the TRE.
both of those have tight weaves. and 1 has an over wrap, they don't look easy to splice.

or another 12 strand dyneema, 3/8" has about a 20k rating. and it's not hard to splice.

I should have gone and looked at what was linked. I wouldn't run either of those if you gave them to me for free. I would just give them to someone I didn't like. That style has all the disadvantages of steel cable with none of the advantages of synthetic.

 

[ShredAZ]

I have a 9.5XP-S but I'm not familiar with the XD9000i. Does it sit higher off the deck?

Exactly. The integrated solenoid sits higher above the drum than other Warn winches.

I should have gone and looked at what was linked. I wouldn't run either of those if you gave them to me for free. I would just give them to someone I didn't like. That style has all the disadvantages of steel cable with none of the advantages of synthetic.

Would you mind elaborating? I'm assuming the comment earlier about the type of weave making it harder to splice has something to do with it.

 

[mrblaine]

Exactly. The integrated solenoid sits higher above the drum than other Warn winches.
View attachment 154047


Would you mind elaborating? I'm assuming the comment earlier about the type of weave making it harder to splice has something to do with it.

First, regardless of how much higher the integrated solenoid pack is, how far is the drum up off of the mounting plate? The shortest dimension is the problem, not the tallest.

Elaborate how? The line is stiff, very difficult to splice and has none of the attributes we like in synthetic lines except strength.

 

[ShredAZ]

First, regardless of how much higher the integrated solenoid pack is, how far is the drum up off of the mounting plate? The shortest dimension is the problem, not the tallest.

Fair point! Regardless, the XD9000i has plenty of clearence for 100' of 3/8. Masterpull put together a nice chart of popular winches and their rope specifications (scroll down a bit). I'll drop this here for anyone else looking to research:
http://www.masterpull.com/choose-the-correct-size-winch-line/

Elaborate how? The line is stiff, very difficult to splice and has none of the attributes we like in synthetic lines except strength.

Among those benefits mentioned, weight and safety also plays into synthetic over steel. The line would be stiffer due to it's tighter weave. That I understand. Is a tighter weave synthetic rope any more dangerous? Does it handle stored energy like steel cable would?

I would assume the answers to those questions are both"no," but again I'm very green in the world of synthetic winching. I'm seeking to understand.

 

[mrblaine]

Fair point! Regardless, the XD9000i has plenty of clearence for 100' of 3/8. Masterpull put together a nice chart of popular winches. I'll drop this here for someone else:
http://www.masterpull.com/choose-the-correct-size-winch-line/

Among those benefits mentioned, weight and safety also plays into synthetic over steel. The line would be stiffer due to it's tighter weave. That I understand. Is a tighter weave synthetic rope any more dangerous? Does it handle stored energy like a synthetic rope would?

I would assume the answers to those questions are both"no," but again I'm very green in the world of synthetic winching. I'm seeking to understand.

How do you think synthetic handles stored energy?

 

[andy29847]

http://www.masterpull.com/differences-in-synthetic-winch-lines/

 

[ShredAZ]

How do you think synthetic handles stored energy?

Based on what I'm reading, if steel cable snaps, it will rebound and can be extremely dangerous.
If synthetic snaps, while there would still be a rebound, there isn't the same weight/inertia behind it that steel carries thus making catastrophic failure less dangerous.

 

[mrblaine]

Based on what I'm reading, if steel cable snaps, it will rebound and can be extremely dangerous.
If synthetic snaps, while there would still be a rebound, there isn't the same weight/inertia behind it that steel carries thus making catastrophic failure less dangerous.

Correct, they both move at roughly the same speed when they part under load. How much damage they inflict is related to their respective weights. Since synthetic is lighter, the potential for damage is less.

 

[someguysjeep]

# of wraps on the drum, plays a part here and what the extended length vs whats on the drum, and how deep the synth can dig in under heavy loads

 

[jjvw]

# of wraps on the drum, plays a part here and what the extended length vs whats on the drum, and how deep the synth can dig in under heavy loads

I would be interested in knowing if the XD9000i drum is different than the one on my plain old XD9000.

 

[ShredAZ]

I appreciate everyone's time this morning!

I went back and (re)checked TRE's pricing on their 100' 3/8. It's only $70 over what I paid for my rope.
While I'm sure the rope I purchased will perform fine, the benefits mentioned of 12 strand Dyneema over a tight, jacketed weave has me reconsidering.

I've requested cancellation of my order, and if approved, will be purchasing from TRE.

 

[mrblaine]

I appreciate everyone's time this morning!

I went back and (re)checked TRE's pricing on their 100' 3/8. It's only $70 over what I paid for my rope.
While I'm sure the rope I purchased will perform fine, the benefits mentioned of 12 strand Dyneema over a tight, jacketed weave has me reconsidering.

I've requested cancellation of my order, and if approved, will be purchasing from TRE.

To be very clear, I don't care what rope you get but avoid any of the jacketed versions if you can help it.

 

[ShredAZ]

I would be interested in knowing if the XD9000i drum is different than the one on my plain old XD9000.

Cross referencing Warn's parts sheet, the part numbers are identical for the drum.
Without having the full specs in front of me, my assumption is the additional clearance from the integrated solenoid makes it possible.

TRE's data also confirms 100' of 3/8 is ideal for the XD9000i where as only 85' fits the standard XD9000:
https://tacticalrecoveryequipment.com/winch-rope-conversion-chart/