Modded the kids room too, gotta' raise them right!
TehHeep's 04 TJ Rubicon Build
- Thread starter TehHeep
- Start date
Cooling "Upgrades"
I figured id start with the easy/quick one.
I installed the explorer 11 blade fan and heavy duty clutch today. I must say the placement in the shroud for this kind of mod is really as good as it gets, just about perfect. This is definitely the fan and clutch combo that you want if doing this swap, no shims/spacers needed.
The stock fan clutch nut was stuck on there good! The northern winters with plenty of road salt and brine helped im sure. The serpentine belt didn't have enough tension/traction to hold the water pump pulley in place, even with extra belt tension applied. So I used the 10' loose end of a cheap ratchet strap wound around the water pump pulley, under the idler, over the alternator pulley, and used the hook end of the strap on a factory frame hole to hold it in place.
Took a large wrench and a cheater pipe to break it loose. I did the same thing to tighten it, just made the strap hold tension on the WP pulley the opposite way.
First impression:
This fan has a higher pitched noise to it underway, the stock fan was more throaty - no real change in actual volume. It still sounds good, just different.
This fan does initially appear to move more air at idle. I hear more air being pulled through the radiator and it sucks a rag onto the grill without trying.
Also when I begin moving it seems to bring the water temperature down much more rapidly then the stock fan, the clutch releases much sooner. This noticeably reduces the load on the engine at an earlier time which makes a real positive drivability difference.
We have some more 95+ degree days coming up; I will report back in a week or so once I have more real time put on it for evaluation.
I am also going to do some long idles in hot weather with the AC running and see how far the temperature creeps up. I could get the water temperature to run away in the heat with long idles and the AC running 230+ degrees.
I will also update the original post with these pics.
I figured id start with the easy/quick one.
I installed the explorer 11 blade fan and heavy duty clutch today. I must say the placement in the shroud for this kind of mod is really as good as it gets, just about perfect. This is definitely the fan and clutch combo that you want if doing this swap, no shims/spacers needed.
The stock fan clutch nut was stuck on there good! The northern winters with plenty of road salt and brine helped im sure. The serpentine belt didn't have enough tension/traction to hold the water pump pulley in place, even with extra belt tension applied. So I used the 10' loose end of a cheap ratchet strap wound around the water pump pulley, under the idler, over the alternator pulley, and used the hook end of the strap on a factory frame hole to hold it in place.
Took a large wrench and a cheater pipe to break it loose. I did the same thing to tighten it, just made the strap hold tension on the WP pulley the opposite way.
First impression:
This fan has a higher pitched noise to it underway, the stock fan was more throaty - no real change in actual volume. It still sounds good, just different.
This fan does initially appear to move more air at idle. I hear more air being pulled through the radiator and it sucks a rag onto the grill without trying.
Also when I begin moving it seems to bring the water temperature down much more rapidly then the stock fan, the clutch releases much sooner. This noticeably reduces the load on the engine at an earlier time which makes a real positive drivability difference.
We have some more 95+ degree days coming up; I will report back in a week or so once I have more real time put on it for evaluation.
I am also going to do some long idles in hot weather with the AC running and see how far the temperature creeps up. I could get the water temperature to run away in the heat with long idles and the AC running 230+ degrees.
I will also update the original post with these pics.
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It is settled! I ordered five Mickey Thompson MTZ P3 35x12.5x15s today. I have no real world experience with these tires but the reviews are great, they have some siping, they look good, and they arent too heavy (67 lbs each); they should air down nicely.
I also have on order a whole bunch of powder coated Metalcloak stuff. Gave a local shop that I deal with the business.
Waiting for it all to show...
In the mean time I have to decide on wheels (steel or mags), ive always done steel but might go mag this time.
Also looking to do a York 210 install as it will be easier to mount it up with the fenders removed.
I have tried to get in contact with Nth Degree Mobility / KnowWhere2Jeep for weeks, I am unable to via phone, email, or facebook. This is unfortunate because I really wanted to run their TT skid.
If anyone has a way to get a hold of them or if they are on this board please contact me.
More to come!
I also have on order a whole bunch of powder coated Metalcloak stuff. Gave a local shop that I deal with the business.
Waiting for it all to show...
In the mean time I have to decide on wheels (steel or mags), ive always done steel but might go mag this time.
Also looking to do a York 210 install as it will be easier to mount it up with the fenders removed.
I have tried to get in contact with Nth Degree Mobility / KnowWhere2Jeep for weeks, I am unable to via phone, email, or facebook. This is unfortunate because I really wanted to run their TT skid.
If anyone has a way to get a hold of them or if they are on this board please contact me.
More to come!
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Cooling "Upgrades" UPDATE:
I am pretty confident that if this explorer fan does flow more air at idle, it is still not enough to make a long term difference. My idle water temps with the AC on still rise into an uncomfortable realm, they just take a little more time to get there. A mechanical fan is just not that great at very low RPM. I am still using my hand throttle to bump idle to 1,200 RPM while sitting around with the A/C on to keep things nice and cool. If I am not using the A/C she will idle and stay below 210 all day long, but she would do that with the stock fan too.
But... What I have noticed is that once the jeep is moving this fan appears to move a lot more air. My water temps plummet rapidly when in motion, what I feel to be a honest good amount quicker then the stock 5 blade. This results in the fan clutch letting go sooner and drivability being better in hot weather at speeds under 40 MPH.
I also torture tested this by crawling at 2-3 MPH up a 3 mile steep windy grade in a secluded local park on a 93 degree day. I put it in first and just about let it idle its way up the mountain.
By the time I was half way through I had hit 220 at which point I sped up to cool it down.
I am going to continue to ride this week out but I really don't see any more noticeable differences happening.
Are the gains worth it? Am I better off with the explorer fan then the OEM 5 blade?
I think we are talking minimal practical differences here. The stock 5 blade fan does the job, it just might take longer to do so under certain situations.
Am I going to go back to the stock fan just yet? No. I do like the in motion rapid cool down and behavior of this fan clutch.
Next change will be the Hesco high flow housing and a new Mopar 195 thermostat.
I am pretty confident that if this explorer fan does flow more air at idle, it is still not enough to make a long term difference. My idle water temps with the AC on still rise into an uncomfortable realm, they just take a little more time to get there. A mechanical fan is just not that great at very low RPM. I am still using my hand throttle to bump idle to 1,200 RPM while sitting around with the A/C on to keep things nice and cool. If I am not using the A/C she will idle and stay below 210 all day long, but she would do that with the stock fan too.
But... What I have noticed is that once the jeep is moving this fan appears to move a lot more air. My water temps plummet rapidly when in motion, what I feel to be a honest good amount quicker then the stock 5 blade. This results in the fan clutch letting go sooner and drivability being better in hot weather at speeds under 40 MPH.
I also torture tested this by crawling at 2-3 MPH up a 3 mile steep windy grade in a secluded local park on a 93 degree day. I put it in first and just about let it idle its way up the mountain.
By the time I was half way through I had hit 220 at which point I sped up to cool it down.
I am going to continue to ride this week out but I really don't see any more noticeable differences happening.
Are the gains worth it? Am I better off with the explorer fan then the OEM 5 blade?
I think we are talking minimal practical differences here. The stock 5 blade fan does the job, it just might take longer to do so under certain situations.
Am I going to go back to the stock fan just yet? No. I do like the in motion rapid cool down and behavior of this fan clutch.
Next change will be the Hesco high flow housing and a new Mopar 195 thermostat.
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I will check that thread out for sure.
I am all about OEM parts, but I also like to try shit out and see; this effort was always about skepticism. But... I am a first hand experience kind of guy. So we are going to sequentially replace parts with fabled performance stuff until I find/don't find a significant change.
I would be lying if I said the explorer fan didn't cool better under certain conditions. It does; thus factory could improve their design (they did with the mythical 7 blade fan I guess).
I know that a peak temp of 220 is "OK" (IMO the hottest id ever want it to get) but it will run away if I let it, this is not ok. I chose to step in and manipulate the revs to stop it form getting hotter, I shouldn't have to... I have seen A LOT of people complain about this very same idle AC issue.
Could it be a system inadequacy due to age? Sure. But we are going to find it in the process and evaluate aftermarket performance vs. stock when we do.
Note:
If anyone has a Jeep 7 blade fan they want to sell please contact me!
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Double post haha!
It is just the hand throttle I am referring to, the cruise control aspect of it actually kinda sucks unless you are on a steady grade.
Took delivery of some more stuff today.
Picked up five 35x12.5x15 Mickey Thompson MTZ P3s and a Currie Currectlync steering setup.
The picture of the currectlync stuff doesn't do it justice, these steering components bring massive beef in comparison to stock.
Picked up five 35x12.5x15 Mickey Thompson MTZ P3s and a Currie Currectlync steering setup.
The picture of the currectlync stuff doesn't do it justice, these steering components bring massive beef in comparison to stock.
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It is just a bicycle shifter and cable, terraflex sells a similar hand throttle kit. But I ended up doing my own thing, I didn't like the way they did certain stuff.
I use it a lot actually and will use it in the future for different things.
- Raise idle for charging/jump starting and winching.
- Raise idle for engine driven on board air compressor
- Raise idle for better idle A/C performance and cooling
- Raise idle for faster warm up in the winter months.
- Makes bouncy terrain a lot smoother with a manual.
- Can drive with your hand operating the throttle and give your foot a break.
- Fun
Its a pretty useful little feature to have.
I do like these tires a lot, they really skate that line well between offroad and streetability.
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Antirock is in the cards, I want to run it with a lift and disconnects/stock sway bar first to get a good feel for it, then do the switch to the Antirock so I can pick out the different characteristics (on and offroad) easily.
I already put chromo shafts in the rear when I first got her (leaky axle seal grooved stock shaft) so that is good to go.
Also these 35s are pretty light weight compared to some other ones (67 lbs vs 81+ lbs), so that was part of the decision to buy them.
When I tackle the front brakes (I have plans to go Vanco) I will probably slide in a set of RCVs.
You understand the beef difference between the stock steering and this kit well then! haha.
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Be prepared to remove your front bumper to install the antirock. I had allocated 4 days to do everything with the suspension and I may have been a little optimistic on my abilities.
Have you regeared? I am trying to feel out the order of how I need to go if I can make my 33"s last till next spring I will have some more flexibility. Regearing and new shafts are also planned for the Dana 44's.
All the currie stuff is top notch. I'm now running the savvy/currie combo and it was worth the cost.
Havent regeared yet, I am gonna work the 4.11s for a short while (5 speed manual) until I muster up the ambition to throw in some 4.88s
Depending on how bad it really is I might be motivated to do it sooner then later.
Why do you need to remove the front bumper to install the antirock? Many seem to come clearanced around the frame tube.
Yeah I've got the same gears, (03 rubi) and curious how that would hold up. My daily commute is about 8 miles, so I really only drive around town and trails. Why did you decide on 4.88 instead of 5.13?
The antirock fits through the frame hole that is parallel to the front bumper. You may be able to get by depending on bu.per. but my warn curves too much to allow a solid strike with a hammer when placing the antirock's support system, they fit very tight into the frame.
The antirock fits through the frame hole that is parallel to the front bumper. You may be able to get by depending on bu.per. but my warn curves too much to allow a solid strike with a hammer when placing the antirock's support system, they fit very tight into the frame.