The beginning of the end for the Cherokee nameplate

I’m not sure that the point of these name-change pressure campaigns is the name change itself. It seems rather that the goal is to reinforce the implicit premise that sensitivity to feelings is the summum bonum and keep that tool sharp when it’s desired in other applications. Allegations of hurt feelings have more than once been used to erode freedoms “guaranteed” in the Bill of Rights.
 
New vehicles make me angry. Better cancel them. I get so annoyed by the government meddling. I just want a known, proven design and just do moderate improvements on the drivetrain and everything to make a really good utility vehicle. Of course right off the bat there's the EPA, so we can't even have the better engine design since about the 1940s. There's no reason our vehicles shouldn't come from the factory getting 30mpg and more torque and engine life 300k miles or more and the transmission and axles should be non-issues beyond some basic maintenance to last the decades life of the vehicle.

Of course the body design probably had to change too, for crash testing. That only means that there's already an extra billion dollars or more to change production to the new design and that's only the cost in the dies and equipment (I may be wrong on that price, but it might just be in the $100s of millions when I've talked with the companies). The R&D and regs and taxes and fees on top of that are somewhere in the 30% of the price of a new vehicle.

But I guess this system does work, because there's essentially no chance of new players, unless they have politicians giving them our money and setting aside or creating regulations for them to compete.
 
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Chief Chuck needs to grow a pair. I’m a Renegade, so where do I file a cordial complaint requesting people to honor me by studying me and not just plaster my name on the side of a Jeep?
In college , my ancestral roots of the Tapakeg people surfaced.

My cousin says we were Slapaho, but I'm not so sure.

As far as the thread topic....you have to love America. Everyone has a voice , but sometimes I wish they'd take the 5th. Now the Apache Helicopter has to be renamed, The Comanche want to have a few words with Jeep, the Romans are torn up about the Gladiator.

When a recent music act changed their name to "Lady A" to avoid using a historical term , I was really saddened that our societal pressure is doing this ....

I'm all for cultural respect and equality, but I don't like to see people going to extremes not to offend someone that really could care less any way.

Reminds me of Tonto riding to the doctor after the Lone Ranger got snake bit in a private area, and the doctor said to suck out the poison.

He rode back and the Lone Ranger asked " What did Dr. say???!!"

Tonto replied "Dr. say Kemosabe gonna die"
 
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I’m not sure that the point of these name-change pressure campaigns is the name change itself. It seems rather that the goal is to reinforce the implicit premise that sensitivity to feelings is the summum bonum and keep that tool sharp when it’s desired in other applications. Allegations of hurt feelings have more than once been used to erode freedoms “guaranteed” in the Bill of Rights.
That's very keen insight. Good post.
 
I completely agree that cancel culture is getting out of hand, but for some reason this just doesn't seem that way. Plus, I dunno, Native Americans have been shit on for a long time.
Plus the chief sounded too polite to be triggered :LOL:
I love the way we went after Saddam Hussein when he attacked Kuwait....you can't kill a country's inhabitants and plunder it's natural resources man..... We know that's wrong because that's how we got started.
 
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People looking for offense will find it.
That is absolutely 100% the truth.

Hey we were done wrong here... I know it's been 300 years... But don't slap our name on your SUV... Also we need to talk to the Kansas City Chiefs....
 
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In effect you are cancelling any reference to native Americans. We can’t change the way they were / are treated. So we need to cancel any acknowledgment of them even if it was done in reverence.
Land O Lakes...they took the Indian off but kept the land.
Sad state of affairs indeed.
 
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In effect you are cancelling any reference to native Americans. We can’t change the way they were / are treated. So we need to cancel any acknowledgment of them even if it was done in reverence.
Land O Lakes...they took the Indian off but kept the land.
Sad state of affairs indeed.
Exactly.... I mean where does this stop. . At some point we've got to come to terms with what was done and more importantly the fact that it isn't still done today, and move on. We can't undo it and to erase it is to lie to ourselves and our children and their children.

I also realize we don't want to glorify the unrighteousness of some of the things that happened. I heard a female comedian who was black make the statement that she was in no way proud of the.... insert expletive here ... That happened under the Confederate flag. That hit home as a proud southerner who has seen that flag every day and never was bothered by it ... I realized she was right... that flag is not a symbol of anything good. and if there was any good that happened under it the bad that happened under it was enough to overshadow it all. You can go to a plantation in Charleston, South Carolina and see the fingerprints of slave children in the bricks made on the property... That is forced child labor.

Horrible things happen in the name of progress. But we've got to have balance as a society... We should be able to look at something that's significant and say yes it's time that we took that down off the state capitol.... But at the same time, getting off in the weeds on something like the name of a vehicle... Especially a name that really symbolizes this vehicle is one with the Earth, this vehicle belongs in nature, this vehicle has always been here , this vehicle is truly American... Is nothing more than somebody else wanting to jump in the party and find something to claim that they are offended about.

Also if you want to know the vehicle that actually saved the Jeep name.... the most affordable SUV that ever came on the market and was a massive hit... It was the Jeep Cherokee. There were never going to be enough YJ Wranglers sold in those days to sustain a failing brand. Financially it was the Cherokee and Lee Iococca that did it....little did they know when they took the four-door concept of that and blended it with the convertible concept of the Wrangler they would blow the top off the industry.. after they figured out how to make one drive at 65+ mph down the highway and stay in one lane and be able to hear yourself think with the coil spring suspension 97-2006 TJ/LJ Wranglers we love.

I don't know how I would feel if I were a native American.... Hopefully proud in some ways and probably hurt in others.

But this is my point... We don't want to lose who we are. There is American Indian in so many of us... My wife's great grandmother was a full blooded Creek... Anything that keeps the name of our native people in the public consciousness in a good or neutral way
should be looked at as a nod of respect.

The only thing that bothers me more than these random groups making a stir about unbelievably vague references is the way businesses and the society is so quick to change, "just in case."

I'm definitely not a very political person, I just hate to see things get a toehold that don't really take us where we need to go.

As the famous Earl Pitts once said - "WAKE UP AMERICA!"
 
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... At some point we've got to come to terms with what was done and more importantly the fact that it isn't still done today, and move on. We can't undo it and to erase it is to lie to ourselves and our children and their children.

I also realize we don't want to glorify the unrighteousness of some of the things that happened...

Horrible things happen in the name of progress. But we've got to have balance as a society...

I don't know how I would feel if I were a native American.... Hopefully proud in some ways and probably hurt in others.

But this is my point... We don't want to lose who we are.
You make some great points. There is good and bad in every individual and group. To erase the good because of the bad would require the cancelling of everyone everywhere from all time...if the principle were applied evenly (which it isn't). Plank in your eye and throw the first stone and so on.

I will say that the debate over names and flags reveals something deeper. I'm not a southerner and have no dog in the Confederate flag fight, but the vast majority of slavery in America's history did NOT happen under that flag. It happened under the American flag until states started seceding. So perhaps we should be concerned about flying the American flag at all. Which is exactly what many on the left are now arguing, having won the battle over the Conferderate flag. But you may say, The American flag is different; it stands for lots of other things, like freedom and democracy and the military... Ok fine. But that is exactly my point. The issue really at stake is "who decides?" Who gets to decide what any person or symbol really means? Colin K. says the American flag stands for racism and anti-black police brutality. Others say otherwise. Does he get to decide what that symbol means? How about the Christian cross? The Star of David? the Muslim Crescent?

This is where a little thing called Truth comes in. People and cultures had both good and bad. Same today. Will be the same forever. Insisting on gross simplifications reducing human truths to binary good/bad is unjust, inaccurate, and guaranteed to foment conflict. But it's good for creating narratives and advancing agendas.
 
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You make some great points. There is good and bad in every individual and group. To erase the good because of the bad would require the cancelling of everyone everywhere from all time...if the principle were applied evenly (which it isn't). Plank in your eye and throw the first stone and so on.

I will say that the debate over names and flags reveals something deeper. I'm not a southerner and have no dog in the Confederate flag fight, but the vast majority of slavery in America's history did NOT happen under that flag. It happened under the American flag until states started seceding. So perhaps we should be concerned about flying the American flag at all. Which is exactly what many on the left are now arguing, having won the battle over the Conferderate flag. But you may say, The American flag is different; it stands for lots of other things, like freedom and democracy and the military... Ok fine. But that is exactly my point. The issue really at stake is "who decides?" Who gets to decide what any person or symbol really means? Colin K. says the American flag stands for racism and anti-black police brutality. Others say otherwise. Does he get to decide what that symbol means? How about the Christian cross? The Star of David? the Muslim Crescent?

This is where a little thing called Truth comes in. People and cultures had both good and bad. Same today. Will be the same forever. Insisting on gross simplifications reducing human truths to binary good/bad is unjust, inaccurate, and guaranteed to foment conflict. But it's good for creating narratives and advancing agendas.
Someone once said history is a set of well recorded lies...I think so much gets lost, just like the American flag part...good post.
 
I'm looking forward to the day when our current Prime Minister is pressured into cancelling something his father implemented. They are the worst and second worst we've ever had.
 
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/...-to-remove-the-word-chief-from-key-job-titles

“The city of Duluth is moving to delete the word “chief” from the titles of two of its administrative leadership positions in an effort to remove language that some Native Americans and others find offensive.

On Monday, the City Council is scheduled to take up an amendment to the city charter to change the name of the city’s “chief administrative officer” to “city administrator.” The city’s “chief financial officer” would be renamed “finance director.”

“We are dropping the name ‘chief’ with intention and with purpose so we have more inclusive leadership, and less language that is rooted in hurt and offensive and intentional marginalization,” Duluth Mayor Emily Larson said in explaining the move.” Continued at link.


It was a sign of respect, not offense
 
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I also realize we don't want to glorify the unrighteousness of some of the things that happened. I heard a female comedian who was black make the statement that she was in no way proud of the.... insert expletive here ... That happened under the Confederate flag. That hit home as a proud southerner who has seen that flag every day and never was bothered by it ... I realized she was right... that flag is not a symbol of anything good. and if there was any good that happened under it the bad that happened under it was enough to overshadow it all.

Sounds like you are suffering from a severe case of White guilt.


You can go to a plantation in Charleston, South Carolina and see the fingerprints of slave children in the bricks made on the property... That is forced child labor.

Yes, and you can go to Wal-Mart and purchase goods that were manufactured overseas by companies that still practice forced child labor today.


Horrible things happen in the name of progress. But we've got to have balance as a society... We should be able to look at something that's significant and say yes it's time that we took that down off the state capitol....

Are you referring to the Confederate flag that was removed from the state capital in South Carolina in 2000?

The Confederate flag was originally removed as part of a bi-partisan deal that was struck in 2000. The compromise was the flag would be removed from the dome and a smaller version would be placed on a Confederate War memorial that was located on the grounds. In exchange, the flag and all Confederate monuments would be protected forever. In addition, an African-American memorial was also constructed on the statehouse grounds. And Martin Luther King Jr. Day was certified as a holiday.

But that didn't last for very long. The NAACP and opponents of the flag were still not satisfied, and so they boycotted the state until it was finally completely removed in 2015. Of course, the African-American monument stills stands, and King Day is still recognized.

Does that sound fair to you?


Also if you want to know the vehicle that actually saved the Jeep name.... the most affordable SUV that ever came on the market and was a massive hit... It was the Jeep Cherokee. There were never going to be enough YJ Wranglers sold in those days to sustain a failing brand. Financially it was the Cherokee and Lee Iococca that did it....little did they know when they took the four-door concept of that and blended it with the convertible concept of the Wrangler they would blow the top off the industry.. after they figured out how to make one drive at 65+ mph down the highway and stay in one lane and be able to hear yourself think with the coil spring suspension 97-2006 TJ/LJ Wranglers we love.

I can agree with this.
 
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Sounds like you are suffering from a severe case of White guilt.




Yes, and you can go to Wal-Mart and purchase goods that were manufactured overseas by companies that still practice forced child labor today.




Are you referring to the Confederate flag that was removed from the state capital in South Carolina in 2000?

The Confederate flag was originally removed as part of a bi-partisan deal that was struck in 2000. The compromise was the flag would be removed from the dome and a smaller version would be placed on a Confederate War memorial that was located on the grounds. In exchange, the flag and all Confederate monuments would be protected forever. In addition, an African-American memorial was also constructed on the statehouse grounds. And Martin Luther King Jr. Day was certified as a holiday.

But that didn't last for very long. The NAACP and opponents of the flag were still not satisfied, and so they boycotted the state until it was finally completely removed in 2015. Of course, the African-American monument stills stands, and King Day is still recognized.

Does that sound fair to you?




I can agree with this.
Buddy I'm not suffering from anything ... I hate that there is so much sin and wrong in the world but it's always been that way and it always will be.

That post is just how I feel and I'm not backing off a word of it... forced child labor is just as wrong today as it was years ago... Children need to learn to work but they don't need their childhoods stolen.

As far as reciprocation and all that stuff on the flag ...I don't care about any of that... The Confederate flag is a beautiful flag and I thought it was part of my heritage growing up.... But looking back and seeing what happened under it as well as thinking about the conflict that nearly destroyed the greatest nation that ever existed....I just don't even have the same feelings about it I did three or four years ago. And that's just me.

I don't live my life by what's popular or what's politically correct I live my life by what is right and wrong. And I know that even right and wrong get argued to death anymore...but when all that fades away and everybody lays their head down at night everybody knows what's right and what's wrong pretty much.... People know that property they took out of the supply room at work didn't belong to them... That the story they told the guy at the return desk wasn't true. I realize some people have seared their conscience... But there's enough people that have not that if people would live the way they should the world would instantly be a better place.

Also I think it's a tremendous waste of energy to try to fix it all... The best thing we can do in this world is work on ourselves.

It gets me to no end when somebody breaks a post apart like this and wants to tear it down. Sort of like sending a girl a live note and she corrects it with a red pen and sends it back.
 
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