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The Green Gamble build

67StingrayJ

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Joined
Nov 18, 2022
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17
Location
Las Cruces New Mexico
Here it is. My first ever jeep. Pick found it on marketplace. Has 85k miles, 4.0L, manual transmission and a host of modifications. I say modifications and not upgrades because everything is half-a**ed. I want to make a dedicated rock rig out of if that is somewhat road worthy. I think it has good bones, but it needs a lot of work.

IMG_2738.jpeg


It sat for about 3 years and was in serious need to attention. The kid bought it thinking is family would learn about jeeps with him. Sadly, they told him; "we don't like jeeps. We don't know anything about jeeps. We like muscle Cars. Either fix this jeep yourself for get rid of it."

IMG_2623.jpeg


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The first guy started off with good intentions. It for sure has got bigger axles. I believe it has Dana 60s, but I am not 100% on that. maybe someone can confirm.

IMG_2674.jpeg


I was also happy to see it had disc brakes on all corners.

IMG_2619.jpeg


Notice the rag in the above picture. No U joint, no inner axle shafts. I hope these at least these are salvageable.

IMG_2638.jpeg


This is the front axle.

IMG_2603.jpeg


Measures approximately 11" wide if that tells us anything.
IMG_2604.jpeg


I pulled the front diff cover before I bought it. I was happy there were gears in there!
IMG_2605.jpeg

I still don't know what gearing it is. I'll find out sooner or later.
IMG_2606.jpeg


IMG_2618.jpeg


And King shocks on all corners as well.

IMG_2621.jpeg


IMG_2620.jpeg


Some kind of aftermarket gas tank as well?

IMG_2655.jpeg


The kid pulled the inner and outer fenders to put the shock towers on. In process, he left a lot of parts hanging under the hood. Things like cruse control module, vacuum reservoir, fuse panel, and some other things I'm clueless about.

IMG_2640.jpeg


Cruise control....
IMG_2644.jpeg


IMG_2639.jpeg


not sure what this is...

IMG_2645.jpeg


37 tires on 16.5" split rim wheels. I think they're off of a Hummer H1 military style.

IMG_2646.jpeg


IMG_2647.jpeg


I'm not exactly sure what they call this. Long arm suspension kit? What ever it is, it aint factory.

IMG_2613.jpeg


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IMG_2648.jpeg


rear Diff. is it a Dana 60???

IMG_2652.jpeg


IMG_2653.jpeg


IMG_2660.jpeg


IMG_2671.jpeg


I sure would like to know if this rear is a Dana 60, and off of what. If anyone knows, help a brother out. I'm guessing it's off of a Dodge 2500? Anyone?

IMG_2611.jpeg


After 2 hours of talking and several photos, I purchased the jeep and draged it home. My first Jeep!

IMG_2683.jpeg


There are a number of issues that need to be fixed. Some I know about, other I have yet to discover.


Immediate acton....
Address the Body lean.
Shocks need oil? Kid said they didn't add the oil?
Parts under the hood hanging loose need attachment.
Needs Inner Fenders.
Gas Tank is not level.
Front axle shafts, U-joint and Yokes are missing.
Shock reservoirs need a home.
Water pump needs to be replaced..
Radiator needs a flush. it has leek fix crap in it.
Radiator fan is electric. I want to go back to stock setup.
I need to figure out what the axles and brakes are off of.
Upper and lower control arms, front and back need attention.
Power steering hoses leaking.
Check engine light is on... duh.
Needs an exhaust.
Needs an Emergency brake.
Fluid checks.


Long term Wishes...
Loockers.
40" tires.
Bead lock wheels.
Better Transfer case, probably from a Rubicon.
On board air.
custom roll cage.
Winch.
front axle stretch for ~105" wheelbase.


Stay Tuned! Lots of work!
 
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67StingrayJ

67StingrayJ

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Nov 18, 2022
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Location
Las Cruces New Mexico
When I bought the jeep, it drove into the trailer. When I got it home it would not start. I put some gas into the intake and then she fired right up. As Ive said before, It need a water pump so I didn’t get the engine up to temperature. I just wanted to move it to a better spot on my property. Glad she runs. I was going to buy this jeep even if it didn't run. The fact that it does is just icing on the cake.

The kid sold the Jeep to me with a new water pump included. All I had to do was install it. I pulled the radiator, shroud and fan. I flushed the radiator, heat exchanger and pulled the thermostat. Good thing I did too. Look at all that stop leak! Ewww!

08BC5671-6DDB-497D-9814-C4CF162E564E.jpeg


4B6E3AF7-F826-40DF-A367-19EB858A2958.jpeg


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94DBA7D5-BB9F-48B7-8234-DEA89EE75435.jpeg


I have new power steering lines on the way from RockAuto. Should be here in about 6-8 months. 😜 I also ordered a OEM fan and clutch from FleeBay. Once it arrives I’ll put it in and see if any other problems surface.
 
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67StingrayJ

67StingrayJ

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Las Cruces New Mexico
Has anyone ever heard of King Shocks being installed without oil???

The Kid I bought it from said he told the shop installing them that “he would put the oil in”. Does this even make sense? Does king even ship shocks without oil? What should I do with the shocks?
 
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Wildman

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You've got a HECK of a project in front of you.

This might help you identify your axles.
https://www.axlebuilder.com/dana_60_bom.html

Has anyone ever heard of King Shocks being installed without oil???

The Kid I bought it from said he told the shop installing them that “he would put the oil in”. Does this even make sense? Does king even ship shocks without oil? What should I do with the shocks?


He probably meant that the shocks need to be charged. They are charged with nitrogen and it takes a special tool to do it. You can do it yourself or have a shop do it for you.

1668999543901.png


This is your vacuum reservoir. It's for the HVAC & cruise control system.


1668999641309.png



Yes these are Hummv 12bolt rims. They should be a dual beadlock rim. There should be a insert inside the tires that then locks both the inner and outer beads. If not you can get the inserts from Stazworks. There also is a rubber o-ring inside that seals the two halves together. The only issue with them is the limited options of tire choices. I had Hummer rims on my Jeep before and have dual beadlock rims made by Stazworks now. But I also have Spyderlocks in 17" for better tire selection.


You also already have a locker in your front axle. It is a OX locker. I'm not sure if you have a locker in your rear axle or not.
 
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67StingrayJ

67StingrayJ

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Messages
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Location
Las Cruces New Mexico
You've got a HECK of a project in front of you.
Agreed. I wanted a build and I got one. I think it has good bones. I have more time than money. I'm already pleased with the progress I've made. I was glad it had a running engine, low miles, full size doors, Dana 60s, King shocks, and a bunch of Poison Spider aftermarket goodies I can sell to fund my build. If anyone wants some Poison Spider parts, DM me. I have the front stinger and the rear tire carrier. I live in New Mexico about an hour north of El Paso.

But yeah, one HECK of a project.

This might help you identify your axles.
https://www.axlebuilder.com/dana_60_bom.html
Thanks. I'll check it out.

He probably meant that the shocks need to be charged. They are charged with nitrogen and it takes a special tool to do it. You can do it yourself or have a shop do it for you.
I can press on the valve stem on the reservoir and nitrogen (or air) comes out. I did add some to the rear passenger side because it was low. Yeah, I know your not supposed to put air in them. I didn't put much in them. I just wanted to see if that was the problem with the jeep not being level. Is it ok to let all the Nitrogen out of them while it sits? I have some serious suspension geometry issues than need to be worked out an I'm contemplating taking the cab off the frame.

This is your vacuum reservoir. It's for the HVAC & cruise control system.
Gotcha. Do I need the box for the HVAC controls to work? I don't mind finding a place for it if I need it, I just assumed it was only necessary for the cruse control. I guess I could test it out. I'll let y'all know. Right now, I have the vacuum line closed off with a plastic nipple cover thingy.

Yes these are Hummv 12bolt rims. They should be a dual beadlock rim. There should be a insert inside the tires that then locks both the inner and outer beads. If not you can get the inserts from Stazworks. There also is a rubber o-ring inside that seals the two halves together. The only issue with them is the limited options of tire choices. I had Hummer rims on my Jeep before and have dual beadlock rims made by Stazworks now. But I also have Spyderlocks in 17" for better tire selection.
I thought they were Hummer rims and tires. And yeah, they have the run flat inner core thing your talking about. My neighbor has a Hummer and they are identical in every way. It sounds like they are full of sand. I'm not sure if that was intentional, (up hill ballast) or accidental. But either way, there is for sure sand/rocks in them! I'll wheel them till the treads go out then I'll get a set of wheels and tires. It's going to be a LONG time before that happens though. For sure going 40s when the time comes.

You also already have a locker in your front axle. It is a OX locker. I'm not sure if you have a locker in your rear axle or not.
Are you sure? I think that's only a OX cover. The kid told me there were no lockers. But he didn't really know much, like me. It's going to be a LONG time before I have the funds to go through the front axle. So it's going to be a 2WD jeep for a while. I was advised I should probably pull the gears out entirely so I don't muck them up. I'm thinking I'll coat them in oil in a plastic bag and set them on the shelf till I can determine their gearing, and/or put them back in.

Maybe I'll sell them.
 
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67StingrayJ

67StingrayJ

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Location
Las Cruces New Mexico
The power steering, fan, clutch and shroud came in. I got them all installed and the Jeep starts on the first crank every time. She purrs like a kitten!

I was able to take the jeep for a maiden voyage to the end of the street when I heard some serious sporadic Clicking, Snapping, slapping noise. I had my daughter get out and walk along side the jeep as I drove. It went a few yards when we both heard SNAP! When she heard it, her entire body flinched. She pointed to behind the front tires but nowhere specific. She's just 10 and learning. I too had my ear out and worried that it could be the transmission or the transfer case. My buddy said "check the fluids." Thats when this "thought-it-was-the-drain-plug-bolt-wont-go-back-in-now" issue happened. Special thanks to @Daryl for posting the video that explained everything!

After I put the bolt back in, and determining the Trans had all the fluid, and everything shifted properly, I felt confident it wasn't the transmission. I did not rule out the Transfer case, but thought it can't be the transfer case because I never took it out of 2WD. I grabbed my "check the fluids" buddy to go for a ride with me to see if he could help diagnose. We went nearly 1/4 mile and no noise whatsoever. We did a 3 point turn to head back, 1st gear, 2nd gear, Stop, Reverse, 1st... nothing. No noise. Feeling confident I shifted into 2nd, then 3rd and gave it some go juice. The front end lifted, the back end squatted and I let off. We went through a culvert (circled in blue below) in the neighbor hood and gave the suspension quite a flex.

1669039970560.png


That's when the noises started coming back. The Jeep drove like serious crap. I've been on tractors and this drove like one. It for sure has some alignment issues. When I let go of the wheel, the jeep will go mostly straight for a few yards till it suddenly want to dart left. It felt like the "moose test" if anyone has ever seen such a thing. I slowed down to quiet the nonexistent exhaust to see if we could determine the problem of the noise. We heard it a few times more but nothing definitive jumped out at us. The brakes, and the axle bearings squealed the entire way home. No surprise there. Just look at these front axles!

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After parking the jeep, we decided the issue has to be a suspension geometry issue. And I knew there were issues when I bought it. I guessed now is as good as any time to start addressing them. So I slid under the jeep and started looking for any obvious issues when I noticed this.
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I have yet to put in a shorter bolt, but I'm thinking that bolt was making all the noise. More to come!

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Wildman

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I can press on the valve stem on the reservoir and nitrogen (or air) comes out. I did add some to the rear passenger side because it was low. Yeah, I know your not supposed to put air in them. I didn't put much in them. I just wanted to see if that was the problem with the jeep not being level. Is it ok to let all the Nitrogen out of them while it sits? I have some serious suspension geometry issues than need to be worked out an I'm contemplating taking the cab off the frame.

You'll have to ask some of the more knowledgeable folks about this as I haven't messed with coilovers before.

Gotcha. Do I need the box for the HVAC controls to work? I don't mind finding a place for it if I need it, I just assumed it was only necessary for the cruse control. I guess I could test it out. I'll let y'all know. Right now, I have the vacuum line closed off with a plastic nipple cover thingy.

Yes you do, if you don't have it then when you accelerate the vents will default to defrost every time you accelerate. It mounts under the battery box on the passenger side.


I thought they were Hummer rims and tires. And yeah, they have the run flat inner core thing your talking about. My neighbor has a Hummer and they are identical in every way. It sounds like they are full of sand. I'm not sure if that was intentional, (up hill ballast) or accidental. But either way, there is for sure sand/rocks in them! I'll wheel them till the treads go out then I'll get a set of wheels and tires. It's going to be a LONG time before that happens though. For sure going 40s when the time comes.

If it's still got the stock runflat they can be noisy and there are better options. They make these inserts to replace the runflats.

20200514_121641.jpg


They go inside the tire like this.

20200514_141636.jpg




Are you sure? I think that's only a OX cover. The kid told me there were no lockers. But he didn't really know much, like me. It's going to be a LONG time before I have the funds to go through the front axle. So it's going to be a 2WD jeep for a while. I was advised I should probably pull the gears out entirely so I don't muck them up. I'm thinking I'll coat them in oil in a plastic bag and set them on the shelf till I can determine their gearing, and/or put them back in.

1669057006315.png


That collar where the shift fork goes is for the locker as far as I know but it's been years since I've had ta OX apart.

Also you said you don't know what the gear ratio is, it's right there on the ring gear. It will tell you the teeth count for the ring gear and the pinion gear.



Maybe I'll sell them.

I'd get the parts to fix the front axle before I sold off parts.
 
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67StingrayJ

67StingrayJ

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Well, according to this here fancy website, the BOM is supposed to reside on the long leg of the axle.
Screenshot 2022-11-21 at 5.29.47 PM.png

The lighting in this photo is poor, but that's ok because there is literally nothing there.
IMG_2897.jpeg


I did find the number 620093R in the bottom passenger corner. Above that is either L80 or 480. Unfortunately, the website didn't register such a number. Dang.
IMG_2893.jpeg


IMG_2894.jpeg


Time to pull the OX cover and see what early Christmas presents are hidden underneath.
IMG_2922.jpeg


Looks promising. There is indeed a sliding ring for a locker. Lockers as well.
IMG_2887.jpeg


Looks like OX cover is PN: OXD60-16
IMG_2889.jpeg


The ring gear has some greek one it. Can tell exactly what this tells me, or what it reads. Is that a 5? or an backwards N? Best I can tell it say 135373. Also laser engraved on the ring gear is 2020852.
IMG_2900.jpeg


There is an engraving that reads Dana 60-410-35. and a factory stamp that reads: OXD60 410F. I guess this indicates it's a Dana 60 with 4.10 gears on a 35 spline? I'm only making the assumption.
IMG_2892.jpeg


IMG_2899.jpeg


One for sure way I know how to tell the gear ratio is count how many times the driveshaft rotates for one complete rotation of the ring gear. 5.25 rotations was too few rotations but 5.5 was too many. My best guess, based on my test is I have 5.38 gears. But if that's the case, what do the numbers mean? Yes, I'm sure it was between 5.25 and 5.5 rotations. I counted twice.

I also found this stamped on the ring gear. NF726 and 43X8.

IMG_2901.jpeg


IMG_2898.jpeg


IMG_2913.jpeg

B089 2 on the face of the diff cover where the gasket goes.
IMG_2919.jpeg


So, what did I get for an early Christmas? 4.10? 5.38? something else?
 
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Wildman

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Well, according to this here fancy website, the BOM is supposed to reside on the long leg of the axle.
View attachment 378552
The lighting in this photo is poor, but that's ok because there is literally nothing there.
View attachment 378551

I did find the number 620093R in the bottom passenger corner. Above that is either L80 or 480. Unfortunately, the website didn't register such a number. Dang.
View attachment 378554

View attachment 378568

Time to pull the OX cover and see what early Christmas presents are hidden underneath.
View attachment 378556

Looks promising. There is indeed a sliding ring for a locker. Lockers as well.
View attachment 378569

Looks like OX cover is PN: OXD60-16
View attachment 378572

The ring gear has some greek one it. Can tell exactly what this tells me, or what it reads. Is that a 5? or an backwards N? Best I can tell it say 135373. Also laser engraved on the ring gear is 2020852.
View attachment 378573

There is an engraving that reads Dana 60-410-35. and a factory stamp that reads: OXD60 410F. I guess this indicates it's a Dana 60 with 4.10 gears on a 35 spline? I'm only making the assumption.
View attachment 378586

View attachment 378590

One for sure way I know how to tell the gear ratio is count how many times the driveshaft rotates for one complete rotation of the ring gear. 5.25 rotations was too few rotations but 5.5 was too many. My best guess, based on my test is I have 5.38 gears. But if that's the case, what do the numbers mean? Yes, I'm sure it was between 5.25 and 5.5 rotations. I counted twice.

I also found this stamped on the ring gear. NF726 and 43X8.

View attachment 378592

View attachment 378593

View attachment 378594
B089 2 on the face of the diff cover where the gasket goes.
View attachment 378595

So, what did I get for an early Christmas? 4.10? 5.38? something else?

OK my uneducated guess (SWAG) is that you have a Dana 60 with 5.38 gears. the 43x8 should be the number of teeth on the ring gear and which would be 43 and the n 8 teeth on the pinon gear.
And yes the 35 would indicate that it is for 35 spline shafts.


What do you have in the rear axle? Or haven't gotten that far?
 
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67StingrayJ

67StingrayJ

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Las Cruces New Mexico
OK my uneducated guess (SWAG) is that you have a Dana 60 with 5.38 gears. the 43x8 should be the number of teeth on the ring gear and which would be 43 and the n 8 teeth on the pinon gear.
And yes the 35 would indicate that it is for 35 spline shafts.


What do you have in the rear axle? Or haven't gotten that far?

I haven't gotten that far. The front axle shafts are missing therefore there is/was no oil in the front diff. I was worried about finding a rusty mess in there so before I bought it cracked the diff cover just to take a peek inside. Thankfully nothing was rusted but until yesterday, I still had no idea what was in it. I was surprised to find Lockers, let alone 5.38 gears, let alone an OX locking 5.38 diff! I feel like I struck gold!

The jeep in its current state is movable. Meaning It starts, runs and moves. But not really drivable. Not safely anyway. It's nice that I can move it under it's own power to get the jeep out of the way when I need to. As soon as I crack that rear diff, I'll have to commit to draining the oil. The holidays are coming up and the wife would be pissed off if I had the jeep with pans of oil and dirty rags strewn under the Jeep.

I'm still under the assumption that the click, snap, cracking, sharp clapping noise I heard was the front upper control arm bolt interfearing with the lower control arm. At least that's my hope.

1669122537941.png


The upper control arm is only tacked into place as well. It would be counter productive to have this fail on me. I also discovered the passenger side lower control arm bolt is missing a nut. Yikes.

1669122793469.png


This could also be a problem. It's for sure not ideal.

1669123051068.png


If my luck continues, I may eliminate that click, snap, cracking, sharp clapping noise I heard with a few dollars worth of hardware. I'll tighten up those bolts under the carriage and see if that mystery noise goes away. I hope it does.

I also worried the wheels might be falling off. Yeah, I grabbed them and gave them all a good shake before the maiden voyage, but it only had 3 lugnuts on some of the wheels.

IMG_2647.JPEG


I picked up some lugs but thought I'd check things out before I got to ahead of myself. I pulled the front passenger wheel.

IMG_2840.JPEG


Nothing rotated freely. Everything squealed. Things sounded crunchy. As I've said on multiple occasion, the front axle is missing the axle shafts. The kid had some rags stuffed in the axle, but the wheel hubs were wide open. Things got rusty. I'll have to get some new bearings up front but till then, WD-40 will have to do.
IMG_2842.JPEG


IMG_2843.jpeg


I was hoping to identify what hardware I have up here. Maybe to help me identify that Dana. But it looks like some generic brake mounts were added. Still, if/when the time comes for me to get new brakes, I'll need to know what brakes to get. Any help identifying these would be much appreciated.

IMG_2844.jpeg


IMG_2846.jpeg


I did look for any more identifiers on the Axle. There is a serial number of some kind on the drivers side, but it's hard to tell what it says.

IMG_2908.jpeg


IMG_2904.jpeg


AA498? 44498? A4498?

1669124412646.png


I can't tell. Even if I could, I'm not sure what it would have told me.

I need front bearings, U-joints, 35 spline axle shafts, seals, covers, etc. But that's hard to do without knowing what this front axle is. So if anyone can offer any more help, that would be much appreciated. Until then, the mystery continues!
 
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67StingrayJ

67StingrayJ

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One regret I have is the trailer I bought about a month before I got bit by the Jeep bug. I have a Glamis trip planed and I (reliable) needed a trailer to pull my SxS. I pulled the trigger on a 14' tandem axel utility trailer. I could have gone with a 16' but 14' would allow me to park my truck and trailer in my back yard and still be able to close the gate.

IMG_2545.jpeg



It has a weight capacity of 5,500lbs. I thought that would be plenty strong enough to take a Jeep for a 2 hour drive up to Ruidoso for the weekend. I'm not sure what my Jeep weighs, but I've loaded Bobcats on Utility trailers when I was a landscaper in St. Louis Missouri. I'm not so much worried about weight, at least not for short hauls less than 2hrs.

IMG_2542.jpeg


IMG_2543.jpeg



This trailer is listed as a 6' wide trailer, but it's 6'4" (76") wide between rails. The Jeep is just a hair under 7'. It came with Hummer H1 split rim wheels and 37" tires. But I don't know what offset is.

307999765_1148507109103813_355457426134277258_n.jpg



Do y'all think it would be possible to get my overall width under 6'-4" (76") with the Dana 60 up front with a different set of tires and wheels?
 

Wildman

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You'll need to pull the brakes and hubs apart and just take them with you to a GOOD parts store and figure out what you need. Then just get a notebook to keep track of all your part numbers. Believe I understand the who thing. I have so many different models of vehicles on mine I have a book with all my part numbers in it.

Stacey David sells a book for this.

https://www.staceydavid.store/collections/books/products/project-planning-book


As far as your trailer goes I'd sell it for as much as I could and get one that will actually fit you needs. A 16' minimum and I'd go to a 18' if you could fit in where you got room to park it. I had a 14' trailer built just for my Jeep and it's actually too short.
 
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67StingrayJ

67StingrayJ

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You'll need to pull the brakes and hubs apart and just take them with you to a GOOD parts store and figure out what you need. Then just get a notebook to keep track of all your part numbers. Believe I understand the who thing. I have so many different models of vehicles on mine I have a book with all my part numbers in it.

Stacey David sells a book for this.

https://www.staceydavid.store/collections/books/products/project-planning-book


As far as your trailer goes I'd sell it for as much as I could and get one that will actually fit you needs. A 16' minimum and I'd go to a 18' if you could fit in where you got room to park it. I had a 14' trailer built just for my Jeep and it's actually too short.

My brother in law said the same thing about my jeep. I think i want to make it as road worthy as possible. I just don't have enough room for a larger trailer.
 
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67StingrayJ

67StingrayJ

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Y'all can keep up with my progress here if so inclined.