This is what the electric Jeep is going to look like at Moab

[Stinkbug]

It seems like a chunk of the TJ crowd just froze in time when the calendar hit December, 31 2006. Thank goodness the world kept on turning and technology kept pushing forward.

Electric Jeeps are coming, there is nothing that can be done to stop the progress. Surprisingly, not even a vocal clamoring of an off-road minority of owners living in the shadow of the mall crawling and grocery getting majority will slow Father Time.

The upside is that given enough time the future “MrBlaines” of the world will find a way to adapt and improve this new breed of Jeeps to be the most offroad capable Jeeps yet.

I plan to sit back, sip my beer, watch it evolve, and when the time is right jump into the pool.

 

[HardSell]

GMC beat Jeep to punch line.

Approach angle sucks.....Idiots' design.

With a little fender triming on rear, got the approach/departure angles right on this one.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

The PHEV Wrangler is projected to have a 21 mile EV range. That's good for a short 10 mile work commute, but its gas engine for the hybrid part will need to produce enough power for a likely discharged battery a lot of the time. With battery weight, electric motor and component weight, and a larger hybrid motor to overcome the poor aerodynamics, it may result in an overall heavier Jeep than gas alone.

So there could be a chicken egg weight and power problem they need to solve for off road and performance people. Maybe not eco-wanting in town drivers; though they should just stop pretending. The best way to solve that might be a TJ unlimited size versus a 4 door JKU or Gladiator Rubicon size.

They are saying that the 4xe option will only add 300 lbs to the Jeep, not really too bad. The hybrid system uses the 4cyl turbo 2.0l as the base of the system, currently in the Wrangler. I rented a JLU Sahara this summer in Utah, and it did really well on the hills and trails. The only time I noticed a difference from my JT with the 3.6, was going over 80mph... but that's not a concern for the TJ comparison anyway....

 

[Zorba]

Don’t leave out the startup cost for the solar system and how many years of bills it will take to cover those costs.

Not to mention the battery costs - in both money AND environmental impact. And you get to do it over and over again...

 

[Zorba]

It seems like a chunk of the TJ crowd just froze in time when the calendar hit December, 31 2006. Thank goodness the world kept on turning and technology kept pushing forward.

Electric Jeeps are coming, there is nothing that can be done to stop the progress. Surprisingly, not even a vocal clamoring of an off-road minority of owners living in the shadow of the mall crawling and grocery getting majority will slow Father Time.

The upside is that given enough time the future “MrBlaines” of the world will find a way to adapt and improve this new breed of Jeeps to be the most offroad capable Jeeps yet.

I plan to sit back, sip my beer, watch it evolve, and when the time is right jump into the pool.

Oh yes, "Progress", oh-so-sacred. Especially when its being pushed by our "benevolent OverLords". "Progress" is what has gotten the world into this mess in the first place, much of it government mandated, the rest of it engendered by the clueless and effete. Even our beloved TJ suffers from it to an extent.

 

[KingCarGuyZ]

This is interesting, there’s not really a good answer. I’m normally a hard headed gas person. But the hybrid kinda makes sense for the trails. Tons of torque, quite. Still have an engine when you need it/ can fill up with gas an still get places.

all electric still using good enough for me to have one. They only have like 400 miles range top of the line. I have put more miles on my Jeep in a day then that several times. We’re just so spread out down here in TX.

of course there is always the argument if battery production and how harmful it is, so what is actually “green” and where does our electricity come from anyway?

At any rate it’s nice for the soccer moms to have an EV option, means I can continue to get 13MPG in my brick and not drive gas prices up

 

[Zorba]

This is interesting, there’s not really a good answer. I’m normally a hard headed gas person. But the hybrid kinda makes sense for the trails. Tons of torque, quite. Still have an engine when you need it/ can fill up with gas an still get places.

You could interest me in a hybrid if it were a diesel-electric. Throwing all the expensive technology at a gas motor to get approximate diesel efficiency out of it is just stupid. But added to a diesel, you'd have something. However, the battery problem still exists - just not to the same magnitude. You can't get around physics, the problem with EVs hasn't changed since they were rejected 120 years ago. Hell, I don't even like battery powered tools, although I'd be willing to consider the "right" EV for local trips. The Tesla ain't it, but it *is* what I'd expect in the North American automotive market: overpriced and loaded with stupid, expensive, and unreliable technology and luxury features. When somebody in India figures out how to make one cheap, using cheap SLA batteries with a real world range of 60 miles or so, I'm in. Of course, our Benevolent OverLords would never allow us to actually buy something like that - we have to be cared for, cradle to grave!

 

[KingCarGuyZ]

You could interest me in a hybrid if it were a diesel-electric. Throwing all the expensive technology at a gas motor to get approximate diesel efficiency out of it is just stupid. But added to a diesel, you'd have something. However, the battery problem still exists - just not to the same magnitude. You can't get around physics, the problem with EVs hasn't changed since they were rejected 120 years ago. Hell, I don't even like battery powered tools, although I'd be willing to consider the "right" EV for local trips. The Tesla ain't it, but it *is* what I'd expect in the North American automotive market: overpriced and loaded with stupid, expensive, and unreliable technology and luxury features. When somebody in India figures out how to make one cheap, using cheap SLA batteries with a real world range of 60 miles or so, I'm in. Of course, our Benevolent OverLords would never allow us to actually buy something like that - we have to be cared for, cradle to grave!

oooh Diesel hybrid, you sir have a million-dollar idea there. though the Diesel's are so torquey, there's kinda no point in electric boost, so we're back where we started. as for 60 Miles on a battery, Damn that isn't even enough for around-town down here. seems useful up north though, I think I remember seeing an electric smart car come through like that.

Electric as of right now is overpriced. don't know why. but it's really really expensive, same with diesels. that's the main thing keeping me from them now. I can buy a lot of gas for that kinda money.

 

[Zorba]

oooh Diesel hybrid, you sir have a million-dollar idea there. though the Diesel's are so torquey, there's kinda no point in electric boost, so we're back where we started. as for 60 Miles on a battery, Damn that isn't even enough for around-town down here. seems useful up north though, I think I remember seeing an electric smart car come through like that.

Electric as of right now is overpriced. don't know why. but it's really really expensive, same with diesels. that's the main thing keeping me from them now. I can buy a lot of gas for that kinda money.

I'm looking for electric in a hybrid as a range extender - you could easily get 80 or 90 MPG with a small diesel electric hybrid, maybe 100 or more. I can tell you the reason diesels are expensive; Its twofold actually: The first is diesel engines are just more expensive to build. Always have been, its elementary physics. But that's why they last so long. There have been a few "overbuilt" gas engines over the years, and they last just as long as the diesels, but nobody wants to pay for them and the CarCos don't want to build them. The second factor is, of course, CarCo GREED. Back in the day, a diesel vehicle usually didn't have all the luxury crap on it to help offset the price of the engine - which is as it should be. Now, many/most diesels are pushed way upmarket, you can't buy one in a base model. The Chevy Cruze diesel was an excellent example - the base car was around $16K if I remember correctly, the Diesel was $10K more because it had all the luxury crap and technology that you couldn't opt out of.

Electrics have similar problems. Batteries are expensive to start with, and then the cars are loaded with un-needed (and un-wanted) expensive technology; Tesla is "exhibit A". A few simple gauges, a good PWM controller, and an SLA battery pack would result in a $20K (or maybe a bit less) vehicle. Microprocessors and touch screens need not apply! Guys have been converting old Rabbits/whatever in a similar manner for decades. I'm not up for the project...

A 60 mile "real world" range would be plenty for me - most of my local trips are under 40. But there's never a one size fits all solution, of course.

 

[Kaptainkid1]

@hardshell
Why would you say idiot design and not mention any aspect to support your statement. Are we to assume you like French Auto makers FCA and hate on GMC American products.

Has anyone even watched the video or read a review about the new Hummer EV?
This truck doesn't suck or has range limits like everyone complaint about.
Highlights:
1. 0-60mph 3.0 sec
2. 1000 hp
3. Crabcrawl the Hummer rock crawl diagonally
4. Stock form can climb 18in vertically
5. Stock 35 in wheels can run 37 in with no mods.
6. Lockers all around. Front and rear. Even center locker.
7. 13 in undercarriage lift and 8 inch air ride suspension. 18inch of ground clearance. Since it doesn't have any lower soild axles Pumpkin it's full travel and clearance.
8. 350 miles range and can charge 90% in 30mins at 800volt dc charging station.
Most of my trail rides are under 200 miles per day. That's driving there and running trails all day long. Leaves 100 plus miles for longers runs.
9. 18 cameras you see approach angles and undercarriage views.
10. All wheel steering.
11. 4 panel t tops.
12. Rock crawl mode
13. 5 feet truck bed and ladder tail gate and self cover truck lid.
14. Highway self drive mode like tesla auto pilot.

This is a production Truck and will be released fall 2021 not concept.

People talk about home solar power systems are too expensive and take too long to pay off. I bought my system with federal tax credits and 15k in cash. My system will pay it self in 7 years total. Additionally only another 2k in panels to expand my system to power an EV car forever. My gas bill on my TJ is $2500 in gas per year at 12k miles per year. Just the gas savings will pay my system and gas bill less than 5 years. I'm looking to replace my daily driver with a used plug in Hybrid.
My current hybrid has over 200k and is still on the factory hybrid battery. Only did oil changes my Prius has been rock solid since purchased.
Why TJ owner on this forum so slow to change when good American products are being developed and sold soon. Tesla is 100% American made and people treat it like it's a foreign made company.
In the next 3 years all the American motor companies will all have 4x4 EV option and I'm sure FiatCA isnt far behind and isnt American owned company anymore. So you jeep people aren't even buying American products anymore.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...mc-hummer-ev-electric-truck-horsepower-price/

 

[Zorba]

Too. Much. "Technology". Tesla is Exhibit A. No thank you.

 

[Stinkbug]

...A 60 mile "real world" range would be plenty for me.

This is one thing I think we can agree on.... Many people get fixated on the fact that they can't make the once a year 300 mile trip to grandma's house for thanksgiving dinner without stopping to charge.

The media has even coined a term ”range anxiety”. That mentality works great for the Teslas of the world that are more than happy to sell you higher capacity battery that you most likely rarely if ever need. (Kinda like me with 35s on mid-arms)

 

[GaTechTJ]

I think there is quite a bit of misinformation about electric vehicles being better for the environment.

Going electric is not as "Green" as most people would have you believe. The source of the heavy metals needed for the batteries is often from 3rd world countries with little to no protection for the workers and they often use child labor.

If you overlook the human rights issues associated with the batteries, the you have to look at the carbon footprint of the vehicle. The majority of the electricity produced in the United States is from coal. The carbon emissions associated with coal generating electricity compared to the emissions from a combustion engine are higher per BTU. Over the life of the vehicle, the electric car will have higher emissions than the combustion vehicle.

These are issues that over time may be eliminated by the improvements in battery technology, and the transition to more hydroelectric & nuclear electrical production. Today, they are barriers to me towards transitioning to an electric vehicle.

I'm not sure why there is such a push right now to go electric with the issues listed above.

 

[Zorba]

I think there is quite a bit of misinformation about electric vehicles being better for the environment.

Going electric is not as "Green" as most people would have you believe. The source of the heavy metals needed for the batteries is often from 3rd world countries with little to no protection for the workers and they often use child labor.

If you overlook the human rights issues associated with the batteries, the you have to look at the carbon footprint of the vehicle. The majority of the electricity produced in the United States is from coal. The carbon emissions associated with coal generating electricity compared to the emissions from a combustion engine are higher per BTU. Over the life of the vehicle, the electric car will have higher emissions than the combustion vehicle.

These are issues that over time may be eliminated by the improvements in battery technology, and the transition to more hydroelectric & nuclear electrical production. Today, they are barriers to me towards transitioning to an electric vehicle.

I'm not sure why there is such a push right now to go electric with the issues listed above.

Two words: Greens and California.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

The majority of the electricity produced in the United States is from coal. The carbon emissions associated with coal generating electricity compared to the emissions from a combustion engine are higher per BTU.

This is not true for the entire US. down here is S. FL, we HEAVILY use solar and nuke for power. There are some combined cycle plants as well. Florida Power and Light allows and partially funds home solar, and lots of people are adding it on. Hell, last year the Mayor of one of the towns here in Broward county decided to do a week study for his hurricane preparedness, and disconnected from the power grid for a week... his family didn't even notice or know he did it. (solar and a couple powerwalls)

 

[DaveF]

This is not true for the entire US. down here is S. FL, we HEAVILY use solar and nuke for power. There are some combined cycle plants as well. Florida Power and Light allows and partially funds home solar, and lots of people are adding it on. Hell, last year the Mayor of one of the towns here in Broward county decided to do a week study for his hurricane preparedness, and disconnected from the power grid for a week... his family didn't even notice or know he did it. (solar and a couple powerwalls)

Agree, in Washington state there is very little coal based electricity produced... Hydroelectric is the majority, and wind farms are being put up all over.


Excerpt from Washington Profile State Profile and Energy Estimate:

Hydroelectric power typically accounts for more than two-thirds of Washington's electricity generation. In 2018, hydropower accounted for 69% of the state's net generation. Natural gas, nuclear energy, wind energy, coal, and biomass fuel almost all of Washington's remaining electricity generation.

On average, about four-fifths of the state's electricity generation originates from renewable energy

 

[Artsifrtsi]

This is not true for the entire US. down here is S. FL, we HEAVILY use solar and nuke for power. There are some combined cycle plants as well. Florida Power and Light allows and partially funds home solar, and lots of people are adding it on. Hell, last year the Mayor of one of the towns here in Broward county decided to do a week study for his hurricane preparedness, and disconnected from the power grid for a week... his family didn't even notice or know he did it. (solar and a couple powerwalls)

@DaveF inspired me to look... natural gas (combined cycle) is out number one energy, followed by Biomass (landfill methane) and then solar (just over 1/3 electricity comes from solar). We do have a few coal, and hydro-electric, but not a lot, and none in S. FL.

Florida is also the second largest generator in the US, after TX.

 

[gaabbee]

Replacing one coal power plant with any other form of energy improves the emissions on every single electric car. Your tj will never improve its emissions or fuel economy. It may even get worse over time. Battery technology is improving exponentially and relying less and less on rare materials. The efficiency of a gas motor has improved at a snails pace if at all in some cases and we are quickly approaching its limits. Don’t even get me started on delivering electric power to your house vs getting gas to a station.

 

[Zorba]

I'm waiting for a wood fired steam Jeep!

 

[Artsifrtsi]

I'm waiting for a wood fired steam Jeep!

https://www.motor1.com/news/297850/six-wheel-jeep-for-sale/