This is why

mrblaine

mrblaine

Crew Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
28,968
Location
Quail Valley, CA
As some of you read my posts, I'm pretty sure I come across as a bit more assertive than a good friendly discussion likely deserves. This will explain part of that and rest you can just put down to me being grumpy over bullshit I can't fix and would really like to.

This is an ad for a brake booster and master for a YJ. Read the description and then put yourself in the average Jeep owner's place and tell me why you wouldn't run out and drop 500 bucks on this to solve all your problems.

Crown Automotive Dual Diaphragm Power Brake Booster Conversion Kit (91-95 Wrangler YJ)

spacer.gif


J12006?$s7product$&rect=0,0,280,133&scl=1&id=nQvqI3.jpg

spacer.gif


fullScreen.png
Click to Enlarge
J12006?$thumb_68x51$.jpg


Item # J12006
(/5)
Reviews
translucent.gif

Write the first review

OUR PRICE$479.99(kit)

Item # J12006
Market Price $532.99You Save 10% ($53.00)
Ships by Tuesday, 12/08
fuel-wheels-pump-black-18x9-07-14-wrangler-jk-7.jpg

Free Shipping


Product Features
  • Power Brake Booster Conversion Kit
No, you already have a power brake booster in your YJ, so it's not a conversion
  • Converts Single Diaphragm Brake System to Dual Diaphragm Setup
Yes, but the diaphragms are so small that the booster puts out less force than the single diaphragm it is replacing.
  • Creates More Braking Pressure with Less Pedal Effort
It actually does the exact opposite. It creates less brake line pressure at the caliper because the assist force is less.
  • Reduces Stopping Distance and Increases Off-Road Capability
Not possible.
  • Heavy Duty Design for Extreme Off-Road Use
Which aspect of it is heavy duty or more heavy duty that makes it "extreme"? It is using a standard import iron master, the bracket on the firewall is the same gauge as a stock one, and the wall thickness of the booster shell is not any more robust than OEM.
  • Comes with Master Cylinder and Power Brake Booster
At least they got something right.
  • 1 1/8 Inch Master Cylinder Bore
The stock brakes in a 90-95 YJ require a 1" master to achieve the correct line pressure at the calipers. If you increase the bore size of the master, you are actually reducing pressure into the system. Since this crap booster is actually weaker, you are losing pressure two ways.
  • Requires 18 Inches of Vacuum Pressure at Idle
Always worry a bunch if a manufacturer or seller uses wording like this.
  • 12 Month / 12,000 Mile Warranty
  • Designed for the 1991 - 1995 Wrangler YJ Equipped with 4-Wheel Disc Brakes or Aftermarket Axles
Now for the really bad part. That is an import booster and master and they cost the manufacturer about 20 bucks each to put on the shelf in quantity.

Here is the booster on Ebay or a version of it-

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5337789113&icep_item=221753057610

$_35.JPG

If you look up a power brake master on Rock Auto for a 1968 Corvette, you will find the iron master for sub 30 bucks.

So, for roughly 100 bucks and some time, you can duplicate the misery that is in the ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bermudacat and Chris
This site contains affiliate links for which Jeep Wrangler TJ Forum may be compensated.
See, the funny thing about this Blaine is that I would NEVER have known any of this if you hadn't just pointed it all out. It's not that I'm dumb (I'm actually very smart), I just don't know ANYTHING about braking systems or how a vacuum booster works. I suspect that most of us would have to research for a long time to be able to see all the false claims you pointed out above.

I assume this is something you must have intimate knowledge of because of history with braking systems?

I guess it just shows how susceptible we can be to marketing (which is what Crown has clearly so cleverly done in your post above). This is one of the reasons I am very iffy about what I buy for my TJ these days and typically don't just buy things unless I run it by someone like you first.

It's also another reason I tend to stick to some of the brands like Currie, Savvy, etc., that I know make quality products without all the marketing gimmick.

Someone could literally be wasting almost $500 for something that is actually hurting their braking performance instead of making it better.
 
Chris said:
See, the funny thing about this Blaine is that I would NEVER have known any of this if you hadn't just pointed it all out. It's not that I'm dumb (I'm actually very smart), I just don't know ANYTHING about braking systems or how a vacuum booster works. I suspect that most of us would have to research for a long time to be able to see all the false claims you pointed out above.

I assume this is something you must have intimate knowledge of because of history with braking systems?

I guess it just shows how susceptible we can be to marketing (which is what Crown has clearly so cleverly done in your post above). This is one of the reasons I am very iffy about what I buy for my TJ these days and typically don't just buy things unless I run it by someone like you first.

It's also another reason I tend to stick to some of the brands like Currie, Savvy, etc., that I know make quality products without all the marketing gimmick.

Someone could literally be wasting almost $500 for something that is actually hurting their braking performance instead of making it better.
Click to expand...

Stuff like that just sends me right over the edge of sanity. They are very clearly preying on ignorance and their "marketing" is nothing more than outright lies. Another group of products that is fraught with the same deception is the recovery business. There is a well known off road recovery expert that gets it. He teaches full time out in the woods but he contacted someone who shared the email with me and since I already knew who he was, little of what he said surprised me but it was nice to see it again.

His words- > Hello, The winch safety thimble 2 (actually all of them) is very similar to ones I have been using for many years now. Is it made by a guy/shop in Missouri? They seem similar to the Viking units - until they bellied-up! Anyway, I like these devices over any other out there (especially F55!!!) and have been trying to direct my clients and students to the guy in MO but to no avail. The ability to pass the shoulder of a shackle through the device and optionally the pin, is very important to me for rigging. And I teach this style of rigging.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
mrblaine said:
Stuff like that just sends me right over the edge of sanity. They are very clearly preying on ignorance and their "marketing" is nothing more than outright lies.
Click to expand...

That's what virtually all of these companies do these days. I'm not saying all of them, but a good majority of them.

And, as I mentioned in my original post, most of us WILL believe it, unless we were either pretty well educated on what they were selling before hand, or we happened to do a lot of research before buying their product.

That being the case, I'm very weary of things like this just for the very reasons you pointed out originally. I think that while this kind of marketing is all over the place in the Jeep world, it's also rampant with other vehicles such as BMW. I used to own an M3 and an M5, and I can tell you that the marketing that some of those aftermarket parts guys put out is absolutely a joke.

They'll convince you you need to run $6000 Ohlins coilovers on a 100% street driven daily driver.
 
In the same vein, I have had the Vanco Brake kits I've developed over the years now numbering about 14 or so copied by a shop in So Cal.

The way they did it is a few customers had them install the kits and they wrote down all the part numbers and then acquired some Chinese made copies of OEM steering knuckles that fit a pre-90 YJ and did some BS machining to half ass attach the new caliper.

It is evident that again, knowledge does not equal understanding and just because you can cobble some parts together to look like a big brake kit, doesn't mean it will actually work.

2 days ago the 5th customer of their called me and requested to purchase the same version of the kit they sell from me. After getting the kit delivered and installed, they are blown away at the difference in quality, ease of installation, and performance.

The bad part is I'm familiar with the quality of parts they use and they are making a ton of money per kit by using sub quality parts and using our pricing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
It just goes to show that you get what you way for. Some assholes wanted to skip out and by a cheaper knock off kit and so they got what they paid for, inferior quality.
 
There's some good stuff that comes out of China, it's just about who is making it and who is overseeing the quality control.

But yes, I agree, if you have a choice to buy America, I always try to.

One more reason I own a Ford and a Jeep!
 
Chris said:
Aside from the lumber they sell, you're probably right.
Click to expand...


Oh, the lumber from the logs we put aboard ships/ floating lumber mills and ship west. Then the lumber that comes back to us is grown in the US;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
Top Bottom
Back