Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ radiator

TIFU: simple brake job eh?

TJosh02

TJ Enthusiast
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Feb 6, 2019
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299
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Toronto
Well I managed to do a ridiculously stupid thing, on top of another stupid mistake. I can't seem to win recently with Jeep stuff.

Might as well bare all, hopefully someone else might learn from my stupidity. Late May/early June I woke at 5 am to head ~3hrs north to guide a trail run. My steering felt a bit off, so when I stopped for gas (no coffee yet) I looked and the reservoir was a little low, so I bought some steering fluid and poured a bit in....into the brake reservoir! On my way back it was eating into my mind to look to see if I put it into the right reservoir. Nope. When I got home I used a turkey baster and sucked out a lot of the fluid on top, but not so low to cause air into the system and filled it with clean *brake* fluid. [I lead with this because it could be related]
20240823_194838.jpg

20240709_185236.jpg

Couple weeks later I go out again, made it 3 hours north, run a couple big runs and toward the end after shifting into 2wd my brakes lock up. Had to call CAA (like AAA up here) to lift me home. Took the front wheels off and inspected the damage. The pads were pure metal and the rotors ground down. This is weird cause I probably had ~10K on them. [another reason might be that half our trails run in muddy water the length of the trail].
20240823_191552.jpg

Ok, so I thought this was a learning moment. Watched a bunch of YT videos, ordered parts and finally got around to attempting to do it myself. I am reasonably handy and engineering minded (don't laugh given the aforementioned) but I got careless and too cocky. I got to all the way to depressing the cylinders to put in the new pads but was doing both sides at the same time and popped one cylinder out.
20240823_195325.jpg


But the seals look toast anyway, this was the pushing side. Not the eject side. One is torn, the other pushed all the way out. I was careful with the tool and the old pad to go back and forth slowly but this was the result. Maybe it isn't a bad thing I failed?


So now where do I go from here?
 
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Well I managed to do a ridiculously stupid thing, on top of another stupid mistake. I can't seem to win recently with Jeep stuff.

Might as well bare all, hopefully someone else might learn from my stupidity. Late May/early June I woke at 5 am to head ~3hrs north to guide a trail run. My steering felt a bit off, so when I stopped for gas (no coffee yet) I looked and the reservoir was a little low, so I bought some steering fluid and poured a bit in....into the brake reservoir! On my way back it was eating into my mind to look to see if I put it into the right reservoir. Nope. When I got home I used a turkey baster and sucked out a lot of the fluid on top, but not so low to cause air into the system and filled it with clean *brake* fluid. [I lead with this because it could be related]
View attachment 553082
View attachment 553085
Couple weeks later I go out again, made it 3 hours north, run a couple big runs and toward the end after shifting into 2wd my brakes lock up. Had to call CAA (like AAA up here) to lift me home. Took the front wheels off and inspected the damage. The pads were pure metal and the rotors ground down. This is weird cause I probably had ~10K on them. [another reason might be that half our trails run in muddy water the length of the trail].
View attachment 553083
Ok, so I thought this was a learning moment. Watched a bunch of YT videos, ordered parts and finally got around to attempting to do it myself. I am reasonably handy and engineering minded (don't laugh given the aforementioned) but I got careless and too cocky. I got to all the way to depressing the cylinders to put in the new pads but was doing both sides at the same time and popped one cylinder out.
View attachment 553084

But the seals look toast anyway, this was the pushing side. Not the eject side. One is torn, the other pushed all the way out. I was careful with the tool and the old pad to go back and forth slowly but this was the result. Maybe it isn't a bad thing I failed?


So now where do I go from here?
Looks like our 1084 caliper which is from a Ram 1500 front 08. Hop on Rock Auto and buy a rebuild kit. Pistons, piston seals, and dust boots. Clean them out, install new with silicone grease or assembly lube and go have fun.
 
Thanks Blaine! Yeah I bought everything from you. The original and rebuilt parts. This time I might get a friend to come over and give me a second brain.
 
This doesn't seem like the right rabbit hole. This was 2008 Ram 1500 5.7L, cause I had to pick. The caliper repair kits are like $5, so I'd guess that isn't what I am after.
1724464401733.png
 
I'm going to Canadian Tire tomorrow morning. Ram 1500s are ubiquitous here.
 
My steering felt a bit off, so when I stopped for gas (no coffee yet) I looked and the reservoir was a little low, so I bought some steering fluid and poured a bit in....into the brake reservoir! On my way back it was eating into my mind to look to see if I put it into the right reservoir. Nope. When I got home I used a turkey baster and sucked out a lot of the fluid on top, but not so low to cause air into the system and filled it with clean *brake* fluid. [I lead with this because it could be related]

we're just gonna gloss over this?
 
I don't know what kind of rubber everything in the system is, but if the power steering fluid is petroleum based it could ruin it all.

Front calipers could just be the first fatality.

Isn't PS fluid basically just ATF?
 
Well I managed to do a ridiculously stupid thing, on top of another stupid mistake. I can't seem to win recently with Jeep stuff.

Might as well bare all, hopefully someone else might learn from my stupidity. Late May/early June I woke at 5 am to head ~3hrs north to guide a trail run. My steering felt a bit off, so when I stopped for gas (no coffee yet) I looked and the reservoir was a little low, so I bought some steering fluid and poured a bit in....into the brake reservoir! On my way back it was eating into my mind to look to see if I put it into the right reservoir. Nope. When I got home I used a turkey baster and sucked out a lot of the fluid on top, but not so low to cause air into the system and filled it with clean *brake* fluid. [I lead with this because it could be related]
View attachment 553082
View attachment 553085
Couple weeks later I go out again, made it 3 hours north, run a couple big runs and toward the end after shifting into 2wd my brakes lock up. Had to call CAA (like AAA up here) to lift me home. Took the front wheels off and inspected the damage. The pads were pure metal and the rotors ground down. This is weird cause I probably had ~10K on them. [another reason might be that half our trails run in muddy water the length of the trail].
View attachment 553083
Ok, so I thought this was a learning moment. Watched a bunch of YT videos, ordered parts and finally got around to attempting to do it myself. I am reasonably handy and engineering minded (don't laugh given the aforementioned) but I got careless and too cocky. I got to all the way to depressing the cylinders to put in the new pads but was doing both sides at the same time and popped one cylinder out.
View attachment 553084

But the seals look toast anyway, this was the pushing side. Not the eject side. One is torn, the other pushed all the way out. I was careful with the tool and the old pad to go back and forth slowly but this was the result. Maybe it isn't a bad thing I failed?


So now where do I go from here?

Where you go is NEW rotors, caliper and pads.

Check out this: https://blackmagicbrakes.com/ols/categories/jeep-tj-1997---2006

I personally know him (never met him) but he was a go to guy for me when I was a builder and had my own Jeep shop. This guy is SMART he knows more about Jeeps than any I have ever met. I. have known him goiing back to the early 2000s

He goes my the name of Mr. Blaine. He maybe on this forum.
 
ok, so what would everyone suggest I do now to rectify the situation?

You could wait and see if further damage happens,because who needs brakes?

or you could replace the master, hoses,o rings in the prop valve and the rear cylinders/calipers So you don't have sudden loss of brakes at some point....
 
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FWIW, I have all new pads, rotors, drums and drum shoes from the man on hand already. But when I was redoing things, it started to dawn on me that my previous error is probably why I am here in the first place. You guys are making me think my suspicion is right. The piston boots were all toast [edit: the reservoir cap won't go back on like Blaine says below].

I've ordered new pistons, pistons seals, boots. My question is what else do I need to replace (soft parts)? I am going to finish flushing the system. Can I put new brake fluid in the reservoir and pump out all the old stuff or do I have to drain everything first? Is that even possible? Think I need to replace to soft lines? Anything up near the reservoir (seals) that I should look to replace?
 
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we're just gonna gloss over this?

Hard to tell. In my world having dealt with this exact issue, every single item that contains brake fluid compatible rubber has to be replaced or the rubber has to be replaced. You can rebuild the combo block, but why? Every single seal and hose will eventually die.

The only problem is how long was the wrong fluid in the system and how much of it got into contact with the seals/rubber? In my cases, even though we got to it fairly soon and started at the top, it eventually made its way to the rear calipers and ruined the seals in them.

Cheap way, keep going and replace stuff as it dies with the hope that not all of it might but you don't know, not so cheap way but only way to know for sure is to just do it all now.

In a few of them, the way we knew was once you remove the cap on the reservoir, it won't go back on because the cap seal swells up so much you can't get it back into the cap if you remove it. That's how we knew everything else was not far behind.
 
ATF has detergents and a lot of other additives. I have substituted ATF for PS, but would never put PS fluid in an auto.

Hydraulic oil in a braking system sounds bad.
It is. If you get out into the wilderness and need a brake fluid substitute, use water. It may suck at times when it boils and vapor locks but at least it won't ruin the entire system.
 
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FWIW, I have all new pads, rotors, drums and drum shoes from the man on hand already. But when I was redoing things, it started to dawn on me that my previous error is probably why I am here in the first place. You guys are making think my suspicion is right. The piston boots were all toast.

I've ordered new pistons, pistons seals, boots. My question is what else do I need to replace (soft parts)? I am going to finish flushing the system. Can I put new brake fluid in the reservoir and pump out all the old stuff or do I have to drain everything first? Is that even possible. Think I need to replace to soft lines? Anything up near the reservoir (seals) that I should look to replace?
If it has been in there long enough, every single rubber item will die. Cup seals in master all the way to the rear piston seals and brake hoses.
 
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You could wait and see if further damage happens,because who needs brakes?

or you could replace the master, hoses,o rings in the prop valve and the rear cylinders/calipers So you don't have sudden loss of brakes at some point....
The o-rings in the combo valve can be replaced but there is a cup seal on the rear proportioning valve that is not a readily available service part. Might find one but it is a very special little seal.
 
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Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ radiator