TIFU: simple brake job eh?

[TJosh02]

In a few of them, the way we knew was once you remove the cap on the reservoir, it won't go back on because the cap seal swells up so much you can't get it back into the cap if you remove it. That's how we knew everything else was not far behind.

Exactly this, couldn't get the cap back on when we were messing around the master cylinder waiting on CAA. It could have been in there for a few days or a week before I addressed it [it was beginning of summer when it happened. I've been out of town/country a lot lately, so my memory of the exact detail is weak].

I am not going to do this the cheap way. I am going to do the entire system. I need to figure out what all that entails. I am going to make a list and, hopefully, folks here chime in if I am missing anything.

Live and learn! I consider myself a fairly intelligent and well educated person, but once in a while I do the dumbest s**t. Lack of sleep is usually the cause like this.

 

[TJosh02]

Thinking out loud, we have a local guy that runs a part out business here because all the old jeep's frames rot before the rest of the parts are gone. I got my 241 case from him and some other odds and ends. I am wondering if I shouldn't just buy a whole used master cylinder (plus whatever else) from him and then go through it and replace seals in that one. Maybe the proportioning valve seals will be good in that and will be a better starting ground.

 

[mrblaine]

Exactly this, couldn't get the cap back on when we were messing around the master cylinder waiting on CAA. It could have been in there for a few days or a week before I addressed it [it was beginning of summer when it happened. I've been out of town/country a lot lately, so my memory of the exact detail is weak].

I am not going to do this the cheap way. I am going to do the entire system. I need to figure out what all that entails. I am going to make a list and, hopefully, folks here chime in if I am missing anything.

Live and learn! I consider myself a fairly intelligent and well educated person, but once in a while I do the dumbest s**t. Lack of sleep is usually the cause like this.

Replace all of it if that seal is swelled up. All of the rubber does that.

 

[Rickyd]

I would flush the system thoroughly before taking it apart. Then blow out the lines when it's apart and run brake cleaner through them to remove any oil,rinse and repeat till there is no contamination in anything you reuse

 

[LostintheForest]

If a customer came in with this tale, professionally, I’d recommend replacing everything but the metal lines. Master, hoses, calipers, wheels cylinders, and the ABS block if it has ABS.

 

[TJosh02]

advice heeded.

 

[DuckNut]

Well I managed to do a ridiculously stupid thing, on top of another stupid mistake. I can't seem to win recently with Jeep stuff.

Might as well bare all, hopefully someone else might learn from my stupidity. Late May/early June I woke at 5 am to head ~3hrs north to guide a trail run. My steering felt a bit off, so when I stopped for gas (no coffee yet) I looked and the reservoir was a little low, so I bought some steering fluid and poured a bit in....into the brake reservoir! On my way back it was eating into my mind to look to see if I put it into the right reservoir. Nope. When I got home I used a turkey baster and sucked out a lot of the fluid on top, but not so low to cause air into the system and filled it with clean *brake* fluid. [I lead with this because it could be related]
View attachment 553082
View attachment 553085
Couple weeks later I go out again, made it 3 hours north, run a couple big runs and toward the end after shifting into 2wd my brakes lock up. Had to call CAA (like AAA up here) to lift me home. Took the front wheels off and inspected the damage. The pads were pure metal and the rotors ground down. This is weird cause I probably had ~10K on them. [another reason might be that half our trails run in muddy water the length of the trail].
View attachment 553083
Ok, so I thought this was a learning moment. Watched a bunch of YT videos, ordered parts and finally got around to attempting to do it myself. I am reasonably handy and engineering minded (don't laugh given the aforementioned) but I got careless and too cocky. I got to all the way to depressing the cylinders to put in the new pads but was doing both sides at the same time and popped one cylinder out.
View attachment 553084

But the seals look toast anyway, this was the pushing side. Not the eject side. One is torn, the other pushed all the way out. I was careful with the tool and the old pad to go back and forth slowly but this was the result. Maybe it isn't a bad thing I failed?


So now where do I go from here?

In the second pic...what/why is there a second set of holes in the rotor? I do not believe I have ever seen that before.

 

[mrblaine]

In the second pic...what/why is there a second set of holes in the rotor? I do not believe I have ever seen that before.

We use 4 rotors that have non stock bolt patterns. 3 of them are 5 on 5.5" patterns and one is some oddball Ford metric pattern. We re-drill 2 of normal ones to the stock 5 on 4.5" bolt circle, 1 to the 5 on 5" JK pattern, and the oddball to 5 on 5.5" for the 5.5" hub conversion.

 

[DuckNut]

We use 4 rotors that have non stock bolt patterns. 3 of them are 5 on 5.5" patterns and one is some oddball Ford metric pattern. We re-drill 2 of normal ones to the stock 5 on 4.5" bolt circle, 1 to the 5 on 5" JK pattern, and the oddball to 5 on 5.5" for the 5.5" hub conversion.

This is your big brake setup then, correct?

 

[mrblaine]

This is your big brake setup then, correct?

One of them.

 

[TJosh02]

Ok, so when I first had the issue, I thought something was wrong with my brake booster, so I reached out to Everything Jeep (our local parts guy for used stuff) and grabbed another BB off him. I just opened the box and noticed he also included the master cylinder and and proportioning valve in the box. Cool! At minimum, I have another set to work with. (dirty AF though)

I just ordered the master to booster seal, the two reservoir grommets and a new cap. Those were the only soft parts above the hardlines that I could decipher from the schematic.

So I think I just need soft lines (need to measure mine before I order) and the seals for the rear brakes and anything else in the calipers that needs changing.

 

[TJosh02]

Can anyone point out where the o-rings for the Proportioning Valve are? I'd like to order new ones but I can't identify them in the schema.

 

[TJosh02]

or are you referring to #4 here?

 

[mrblaine]

View attachment 553740

Can anyone point out where the o-rings for the Proportioning Valve are? I'd like to order new ones but I can't identify them in the schema.

Odd that the factory calls it the proportioning valve, but nonetheless, there are several inside it.

 

[TJosh02]

when you say inside, do you mean where the hard-lines attach? or somewhere deeper inside this manifold?

 

[mrblaine]

when you say inside, do you mean where the hard-lines attach? or somewhere deeper inside this manifold?

Hard lines are inverted flare. The o-rings are inside on the shuttle valve, the proportioning valve piston, and inside the prop valve piston cap. If it has a rear port adapter, it also has one between it and the block.

 

[TJosh02]

thanks

 

[TJosh02]

OK, I am slow as molasses. Always finding something else to do instead of devote the time to finishing.

Finally torn apart the calipers and cleaned them out. The old pistons were a PITA to get out. I ended up breaking off pieces of the rim getting them out. Dust boots were shot. The rubber rings inside seemed fine but I am replacing everything. I hope I didn't heat up the caliper so much that I distorted their dimensions and that is why the pistons were a sonofabitch to get out.

Also removed the master and proportioning valve off my TJ, and have the other used set with me. Going to go through everything. Any tips/tricks/things to examine besides all the soft parts?

I watched a bunch of YT videos on rebuilding the calipers. Wish me luck.

I haven't measured and ordered new brake lines yet (soft parts, not the hardlines), so I won't be bleeding everything yet, but I read Blaine's write up on bench bleeding the master and watched a YT video that did the same thing but it is easier to watch someone sometimes than read.

 

[TJosh02]

In case anyone else who finds this thread is looking for some help, but also serves as a bookmark for me. These are some videos I found that make it easy to see. I am a bit of a visual learner.

One Caliper rebuild video

A maybe slightly better one, same idea though, but with a brit accent.

How the brits do it.

Here is one bench bleed tutorial.

Bench Bleeding

 

[TJosh02]

3 out of 4 success. doh! one boot didn't sit all the way, in a side I didn't see and pushed it in. Now to get that one out and redo. I have extra boots, but not access to compressed air on hand.