Tired of seeing knock off products pushed here

Fouledplugs

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One advantage this forum has over the others is that the members seem more humble, more willing to help newbs, and have an acute eye for quality. Yet I am starting to see more and more members pushing cheap Chinese knock off products. I have even seen vetren members state that some knocks offs are made in the same factory overseas. Ha! This highly evident knock off disproves that notion entirely. Bottom line; you get what you pay for. SUPPORT THE USA.

http://betterautomotivelighting.com/tag/knockoff/

FYI. Permission granted via email correspondence with the author.

We’ve been hearing reports of people purchasing JW Speaker brand LED fog lights and headlights, from supposedly trustworthy retailers on the internet, only to find out that they were lied to, and what they received was a cheap Chinese knock off! I wanted to take some time to put this comparison together for you to make sure you’re actually getting what you paid for!

In today’s world of modern technology it’s becoming easier and easier for lazy companies around the world to copy somebody else’s innovation. Now, the Wisconsin, USA company J.W. Speaker Corporationis no exception! We recently got our hands on a set of real JW Speaker 6145 lights, and JW Speaker 8700 Evolution headlights and tested them against a counterfeit version to see what the differences are. What we found was not surprising. Afterall, if a product is worth copying in the first place, then somebody out there thought it was a great product and instead of creating their own they were unethical and just copied it.

The lights looked similar in size and shape, but all of the details were missing. The JW Speaker lights had way more light output, they are built with better materials (sealant, wires, connectors, lenses, etc…) and the fit & finish of the JW Speaker brand products was much nicer.

Here are some comparison pictures of the visuals of the JW Speaker products versus their Chinese counterfeit knockoff products to give you an idea of what to look out for when you’re trying to purchase the real thing. Hopefully this posting will help some people out if they are worried about being scammed by a seller.

Especially you should watch out for dishonest sellers trying to sell you the real thing on websites like Amazon, eBay and other international sales platforms on the internet. If you have any doubt, just compare their products to this review and there should be no question if it’s real or not!

Here’s a comparison of the real JW Speaker 8700 Evolution LED headlight, and the Chinese knock-off version:
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This is the JW Speaker 8700 Evolution side by side with a Chinese counterfeit knockoff product that’s supposed to look like the real thing. But trust me, they are very different!

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The back side looks very similar, but it’s the important details that matter such as the type of harness that is used, the moisture vents, and the wiring connections.

63426B40-B5C6-497B-B486-883CED81A6FD.jpeg

The real JW Speaker headlight uses high quality moisture vents on the back side that are sized properly for the application, where the cheap knockoffs use random over-sized vent covers that will fail over time.

7C14289F-3A8C-426A-9336-EBB621481126.jpeg

JW Speaker LED headlights are sealed to an IP67 weatherproof rating, the Chinese knockoffs have no IP rating to speak of. You can see the different wiring methods used by both here and one is safe to use and the other is not. The Chinese version has the wires covered because they don’t want you to see how easy it is to get water into their housing.

A406C553-24D6-412D-A881-9C61D7AB4277.jpeg

When you knock off a product you need to cut corners everywhere to make it cheaper. Even in the connectors! JW Speaker uses the industry’s best quality H4 style connectors, where the Chinese copy uses a low quality, inexpensive connector that is prone to having crimp and connection issues.

BD164ACA-F19A-4026-B313-BD32C3C57F8C.jpeg

The JW Speaker 8700 LED headlights are DOT and SAE approved, and it says so right on the lens! The cheap Chinese copy is not DOT, ECE, SAE, or any other 3-letter acronym approved by anyone! Also, JW Speaker LED headlights are made in the USA!

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Real JW Speaker LED headlights are easily recognizable because you can see the company logo stamped right into the bezel of the light. There’s no doubt if you’re getting the real thing here!

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One of the reasons JW Speaker LED headlights are better than cheap copies is they use the best materials in the business, and they do all their own product engineering. It’s not a randomly selected LED, it’s not an off-the-shelf optic, and it’s a custom built power supply. Here you can see that the knockoff headlight uses a tiny high beam projector, and cheap LED chips.

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All JW Speaker LED headlights will have identifying marks on them, including a handwritten inspection label so you know you’re getting the real deal!

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Here you can see the differences between the high and low beam outputs on the real versus fake headlights. The genuine JW Speaker products have no funny shadows being thrown around, and have a much higher power high beam. The Chinese knockoff lights look like the high beam might be better, but when shining down a road a couple hundred feet, the real American made JW Speaker headlights go about 3 times further down the road!

Hopefully this comparison helps you from getting ripped off in the future when you are trying to get a good quality product. Why waste your money on a cheap knockoff when the real thing is available from reputable dealers like Headlight Revolution, Black Top Racing, and Headlight Superstore!





Here’s a comparison of the real JW Speaker 6145 LED fog light, and the Chinese knock-off version:
2A46A185-E81E-4541-8820-F519792794EC.jpeg

It’s important to know if you are buying the real deal or someone’s cheap knockoff. Here’s a comparison picture side by side showing the JW Speaker 6145 and it’s terribly performing counterfeit copy.

CD030A34-8FEE-429B-891C-A6D6253AD298.jpeg

All JW Speaker LED fog lights are built using the industry’s best practices, even down to the details like how the lens sealant looks when finished! Not only is it important for the sealant around the lens to look good, but a poorly applied lens sealant will also cause moisture problems.

19EE772A-B102-43B1-80B5-C7D35FE36707.jpeg

On the original JW Speaker 6145 you can clearly see the Speaker logo embossed on the fog light bezel. The knockoff is blank.

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All JW Speaker LED headlights and fog lights come with a lifetime warranty, but they also tell you exactly what month and year they were manufactured. Here you can see the real one shows a sticker with the production date listed.

E2332B41-F9F4-4EC7-A6E4-A4F0403A1F94.jpeg

Real JW Speaker lights do not cut corners, so in this side by side example you can see that the real one uses thick metal construction and high quality hardware components. The cheap Chinese version has thin metal attachments, and low quality components which will give you more issues during install.

161F0335-A0D6-4CE2-A0AA-BD953EAF8CFA.jpeg

JW Speaker LED headlights and fog lights are sealed to IP67 waterproof ratings. This is evident in how the wires are sealed at the back of the housing. The Chinese knockoff of this light does not do a good job of sealing the back side of the housing from moisture.

D4779632-0C31-405B-9532-9DF8BFBA425A.jpeg

With real JW Speaker lights you will never find cut corners on quality even when it comes to the wiring and connectors. Here you can see that not only does the JW Speaker product use the highest quality connectors, but also heavier gauge wires.

27B0F762-4F3D-4386-8482-BD941EDE6A4C.jpeg

Here you can see the real JW Speaker LED fog light beam pattern is brighter, taller, wider and has less weird shadows in the beam pattern. The fake light has a very small and un-impressive beam pattern.
 
I agree with you that buying made-in-the-USA products is always the best idea, but I can hardly characterize people getting something other than JW Speaker lights because they can't afford the $800 price tag as 'pushing a knockoff'. We'd all love to get the best no matter the cost if we could. Not everyone can.
 
While JW Speaker purports to be "Made in the USA" I've read a number of things stating that this simply isn't true, and it's marketing B.S. While their headlights are "designed in the USA", the parts come from China is what I'm told. So maybe the headlights are technically "assembled in the USA", but to say they manufacture them entirely in the USA is highly disputable.

In addition to that, I know the people at KC lighting personally, and I've spoken to them about a lot of this. They confirmed to me that their lights are made in the same Chinese factories that most of the others are. However, they don't use crap quality parts or manufacturing, because they pay for higher quality stuff. In other words, if you take your product to China to be manufactured, the same factory can build you a cheap quality light or an expensive one. Is that so hard to believe, honestly?

You get what you pay for. If you want them to manufacture a high quality headlight, then you're going to pay more, and ultimately have to sell it for more. If you want them to manufacture a cheaper quality light, the same factory can do it, they just use lower quality parts, etc.

The same factory in China can turn out a low quality product, or a high quality product, trust me. You as the business owner have a lot of say in the outcome though.

It should also be noted that this original post (from the Headlight Revolution site) was created as indexable SEO content for a common set of search terms (or you might even say clickbait), to drive sales of JW Speaker headlights on the Headlight Revolution website. I'm not saying that the JW Speaker isn't higher quality than the Chinese knockoff (it is by all means), I'm simply saying that consider that Headlight Revolution isn't some unbiased third party... They sell headlights for a living, so therefore making a post like this for a common search term definitely helps them to sell more JW Speaker headlights.
 
I agree with you that buying made-in-the-USA products is always the best idea, but I can hardly characterize people getting something other than JW Speaker lights because they can't afford the $800 price tag as 'pushing a knockoff'. We'd all love to get the best no matter the cost if we could. Not everyone can.

X2 to this. I support made in the USA, but how are you going to fault someone for not wanting to spend $800 or so on headlights @Fouledplugs? Are we here to scold people for not buying "Made in the USA"? No, we're not. If someone wants to buy a cheaper Chinese headlight, it's their money (and to be honest, a good flashlight provides better light output than the stock TJ headlights), and we shouldn't look down on them for not buying a more expensive headlight simply because it's supposedly "Made in the USA".

I'd also like to state that just because a company claims they are "Made in the USA" doesn't mean they really are. A lot of companies these days are using that as a marketing tactic since they know it makes people feel good about buying from them. They're also diluting the whole "Made in the USA", versus "Assembled in the USA". Just because a company says it, doesn't mean it's true.

And with JW Speaker, I've heard many, many times, that the headlights are only assembled in the USA.

Hell, even the $800 Vision X headlights I have (which are supposed to be better light output than the JW Speakers) are made in South Korea. I've noticed this as well, that the higher end products (in regards to lighting) seem to be coming from South Korea (though there are some high end lights coming from China, such as the KC Gravity line).

While I do support "Made in the USA", I also don't think there's many people (aside from myself, which I am one of those types that really loves high end lighting) that are going to pay upwards of $500 for headlights. That doesn't make them bad people because they don't support a product that is supposedly made in the USA, nor does it make someone like @Jerry Bransford or @CodaMan bad people for running a "knock off" Chinese version of the Truck Lite headlights. They work, they're cheap, and like I said earlier, any aftermarket light is better than the stock TJ headlights.

I'm sure those people would rather take the hundreds of dollars they saved on Chinese headlights and buy something like Revolution axles (the made in the USA versions).

Hell, did you know the Currie Currectlync (and some of the other Currie products I believe) is manufactured in India last I heard?
 
We've sold J.W. Speaker lights for years, mostly the 8800 versions for our T800's. A set of 4 will run the customer north of $1200 Cdn. And I can't tell you how many warranties we've done due to corrosion and water ingress as these models went through many updates. They are a decent product but certainly not the holy grail of aftermarket lighting.

I have the Truck-lite LED's (made in the USA) on my Jeep. A little cheaper than the J.W.'s and the pattern is not perfect but a huge improvement over other options.

The thing that pisses me off about LED lighting in general are the bogus claims about longevity and the implied warranties. Products are not warranted for years because the manufacturer is convinced they will last that long. The profit margins are so generous that the few replacements they may have to cough up are negligible. They bank on the fact that very few people keep their invoices and will go to the trouble of claiming it.
 
The thing that pisses me off about LED lighting in general are the bogus claims about longevity and the implied warranties.

Don't forget about the whole "DOT Approved" thing, which literally means NOTHING! The DOT does not approve or disapprove aftermarket products. This is just a marketing tactic.
 
Good points. Never said anyone buying knock offs made them bad people or deserved to be shamed.

My motivation in sharing the article was just to look at the different build quality between a quality item and a really good (IMO) knock off. A lot of people will argue there isnt any and sometimes use the “they are built in the same plant in China.”

Im no manufacturing expert. I have absolutely no expertise to lay claim that a quality product and a knock off are in fact manufactured in the same plant. However, is it me reading into it too much...To conclude that when I hear, “the two products, one being real at $800 and the knock off being $400 are produced at the same plant,” gives ME the impression they are the same quality and will net the same results?

Otherwise what is the point in mentioning that they are manufactured in the same plant by the same people?

Note: I didnt author the article. Just sharing it based on my opinion that it was interesting.
 
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We've sold J.W. Speaker lights for years, mostly the 8800 versions for our T800's. A set of 4 will run the customer north of $1200 Cdn. And I can't tell you how many warranties we've done due to corrosion and water ingress as these models went through many updates. They are a decent product but certainly not the holy grail of aftermarket lighting.

I have the Truck-lite LED's (made in the USA) on my Jeep. A little cheaper than the J.W.'s and the pattern is not perfect but a huge improvement over other options.

The thing that pisses me off about LED lighting in general are the bogus claims about longevity and the implied warranties. Products are not warranted for years because the manufacturer is convinced they will last that long. The profit margins are so generous that the few replacements they may have to cough up are negligible. They bank on the fact that very few people keep their invoices and will go to the trouble of claiming it.
Nice input. I was not endorsing the JW brand. Just sharing an interesting artcle that dives into the details between a quality product and a direct knock off. Im a fan of Truck Lite over JW as well.
 
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A very mature discussion. Great to see the distinction of marketing hype over substance.

Some of the reasons companies have stuff knocked off is that they start production in china/india etc..... I dont know how many stories I've heard of companies being lured to offshore production, only to quickly find copied products being sold on alibaba. I was importing carbon fibre parts for race cars a few years ago from China. The same parts were being onsold by other vendors for as much as the market you sustane, sometimes up to 500% markups.

Until you have government cracking down on the importation of these goods, you have no chance of stopping it.
 
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Hmm...While I support the point of the article (Buyer beware, and Copy Cat companies can eat a D**k) the article reads a little biased. They just SAY that potting is better than a wire grommet...and they don't actually identify the rubber tubing as a grommet, they just say its there to "hide" the poor wire management. It just reads amateurish. No proof that the grommet will leak (it may not). That is only one example...there are others. I just hate biased reporting. There IS something to the article, and I'm positive that an authentic J.W. Speaker light is of higher quality than a typical knock-off...so prove it. Don't just say it, and expect people to follow you just because you said so...offer some proof.
 
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Hmm...While I support the point of the article (Buyer beware, and Copy Cat companies can eat a D**k) the article reads a little biased. They just SAY that potting is better than a wire grommet...and they don't actually identify the rubber tubing as a grommet, they just say its there to "hide" the poor wire management. It just reads amateurish. No proof that the grommet will leak (it may not). That is only one example...there are others. I just hate biased reporting. There IS something to the article, and I'm positive that an authentic J.W. Speaker light is of higher quality than a typical knock-off...so prove it. Don't just say it, and expect people to follow you just because you said so...offer some proof.

Exactly. But as I mentioned before, this isn't so much an actual informative article as it is SEO clickbait. Headlight Revolution (the people who wrote this "article") are a company that sells headlights for a living. Of course they want you to buy the expensive lights. I have no doubt the JWs are better than the knockoffs, but I'm just saying this is far from an unbiased article. Like you said, they aren't backing up any of their claims with facts or evidence, they're just making unsubstantiated claims based on looking at the headlights side-by-side.
 
Exactly. But as I mentioned before, this isn't so much an actual informative article as it is SEO clickbait. Headlight Revolution (the people who wrote this "article") are a company that sells headlights for a living. Of course they want you to buy the expensive lights. I have no doubt the JWs are better than the knockoffs, but I'm just saying this is far from an unbiased article. Like you said, they aren't backing up any of their claims with facts or evidence, they're just making unsubstantiated claims based on looking at the headlights side-by-side.

Yeah, this kind of "marketing" is typically frowned upon from almost any sales organization. My company specifically trains our sales force to sell on the positives of our product and not mention the weaknesses of our competitors. Its low-brow and transparent. It's generally regarded as a buyer turn off, and reads as jealousy.

I actually run a medium sized manufacturing and engineering company, so I'm all too familiar with people trying to rip off our designs, especially China. They haven't figured it out...yet. They will. Our product is pretty difficult to properly manufacture tho, so its both a blessing and a curse.
 
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Yeah, this kind of "marketing" is typically frowned upon from almost any sales organization. My company specifically trains our sales force to sell on the positives of our product and not mention the weaknesses of our competitors. Its low-brow and transparent. It's generally regarded as a buyer turn off, and reads as jealousy.

I actually run a medium sized manufacturing and engineering company, so I'm all too familiar with people trying to rip off our designs, especially China. They haven't figured it out...yet. They will. Our product is pretty difficult to properly manufacture tho, so its both a blessing and a curse.

That's good advice too. I think that as a business owner, it's not very professional to sit around and bash your competitors. Now I will say that I am rather put off by the fact that the Chinese copy so many things out there like it's no big deal, but by this point in our lives, we just have to accept that. Still though, anyone who has half a brain is well aware than the majority of time in life, you get what you pay for.

There's a reason one headlight costs a lot more than the others. Still though, I don't like seeing something like this where they make claims that aren't backed up by any facts or real world evidence.
 
We've sold J.W. Speaker lights for years, mostly the 8800 versions for our T800's. A set of 4 will run the customer north of $1200 Cdn. And I can't tell you how many warranties we've done due to corrosion and water ingress as these models went through many updates. They are a decent product but certainly not the holy grail of aftermarket lighting.

I have the Truck-lite LED's (made in the USA) on my Jeep. A little cheaper than the J.W.'s and the pattern is not perfect but a huge improvement over other options.

The thing that pisses me off about LED lighting in general are the bogus claims about longevity and the implied warranties. Products are not warranted for years because the manufacturer is convinced they will last that long. The profit margins are so generous that the few replacements they may have to cough up are negligible. They bank on the fact that very few people keep their invoices and will go to the trouble of claiming it.

What makes the pattern on the Truck Lites not perfect?
 
Are there any LED headlights that are actually 100% made in the USA?
Probably not, as most of the LED modules are made overseas. The reflector, lens housing, and assembly can all happen here, but the electrical components themselves are almost guaranteed to be made outside the States . Not that this is a bad thing, mind you. They know how to do it very effectively in APAC counties, and far more efficiently than we do . It's capital intensive.
 
We make equipments and machineries at my job here 100% USA made.
The quality and rejections that I see is so bad that we try to copy how they do it in Japan and other countries.
We try to mass produce to compete with cost against other countries and the end result is so bad that I rather buy my stuff somewhere else.
 
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Very few if any electronic items are actually made in the USA. They may be designed and 1st few prototypes made here but mass production generally goes overseas. Yea many of them are build in the same manufacturer plant but you will see many subtle changes to avoid and patent legal battles. I am all for buying Made in the USA but I also work very hard for my money and there some things I just cannot justify. LED lighting is one of them. Rigid is one of the brands that I feel are way over priced. They claim better manufacturing but I have seen personally that their board are very similar to other no name brands. A friend of mine had a 1 yeard old D Series Pod die on him. He had it sitting around so I asked him to let me take a look at it. When I opened it up I found a tiny surface mount component that had completely come of the board. I went ahead and soldered it back on problem solved. I inspected the rest of the board and saw typical manufacturing lack of solder on all the components. for household electronics is fine as they do not bounce around but for vehicle use it was not good enough. I went ahead an re-soldered a lot of them before I closed up the light.
 
Hmm...While I support the point of the article (Buyer beware, and Copy Cat companies can eat a D**k) the article reads a little biased. They just SAY that potting is better than a wire grommet...and they don't actually identify the rubber tubing as a grommet, they just say its there to "hide" the poor wire management. It just reads amateurish. No proof that the grommet will leak (it may not). That is only one example...there are others. I just hate biased reporting. There IS something to the article, and I'm positive that an authentic J.W. Speaker light is of higher quality than a typical knock-off...so prove it. Don't just say it, and expect people to follow you just because you said so...offer some proof.

Great points. Actions do speak louder than words.