Title and Registration Fiasco

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
Ok guys, I am so ticked off right now. I bought my Jeep from the Car Barn in Rio Linda CA back on Jan. 5th. Being it was a used car lot, I got a sticker in my window as temporary registration until DMV sends me the title and actual stickers. Well, when I bought a new car years ago from a regular dealer, it took 6 weeks and I had my registration. I just got off the phone with DMV and they told me that the only thing they had record of is the old owner turning in a release to the Car Barn and there was no other paperwork turned in. So I called the Car Barn and he told me that the sticker in the window is good for 3 months and he has that long to turn in the paperwork. I told him I bought it in Jan. He say's I will be good till April. I said April is 2 weeks away. It will take DMV 6 weeks to process it. He said that isn't true and should only take about 4 days after he turns it in. He said he would turn it in ASAP. I said, TODAY, he said NO asap. Then he went on to say that it is a lot of paperwork on takes time to do it. Meaning for all the cars he sells. He said he had others in front of me. I'm like OMG you guys don't sell that many cars to take 3 months to do the paperwork. I am so livid!!!!! UGHHHHHHH I told him that not having the tags on the plate give a cop a reason to pull me over. He says' that they won't give me a ticket because of the tag in the window. I said, in 2 weeks they will and I will make sure I come down there to collect the ticket fee. LOL So frustrating. Has anyone dealt with this type of thing? Is he correct that he has 3 months to turn in the paperwork?
 

Alex01

Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Ride of the Month Winner
Mar 23, 2018
1,684
Martinez, CA, USA
Sorry to hear about your issue. It is ridiculous the dealer is pulling that on you. Here is some info I found online.
82288
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff Member
Sep 28, 2015
35,380
Salem, Oregon
I will say that it can be a lot faster than that. When the Oregon DMV deals with dealerships, they get them the title in less than a week (here in Oregon at least), whereas is if I send in for the title as a private owner (not a dealer), it takes 3-4 weeks.

So, there may be some truth to what he was saying.

However, that doesn't change the fact that that's a shitty thing to do on their part. Tell them you're going to leave them horribly negative reviews on Google, Yelp, and Facebook. Also threaten legal action and tell them that if you get pulled over and get a ticket due to an expired trip permit, you're going to sue them in small claims court (which you would win FOR SURE).
 
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KimsJeep

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
Sorry to hear about your issue. It is ridiculous the dealer is pulling that on you. Here is some info I found online. View attachment 82288
Yah, I just found and was reading that. I think I will write them or email them with a copy of this and ask them for my title. I paid for it in full. So technically they should have to give me a title within 15 days of the sale, right? That is how I read it anyway. I may end up with some of my money back. LOL
 

JEEPCJTJ

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Sorry you are going through crap like that.

Ohio recently changed it's temp tags from 30 to 45 days. I bought a used truck from a dealer on Jan 31st, the temp is good until this coming Sunday but I got my title last Friday and went out and bought plates for that truck, my TJ and my daughter's Chevy Cobalt along with my new federally approved Ohio driver's license for a total of $214.50 to have the honor of driving.
 
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KimsJeep

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
I have a complaint going to the DMV Investigations and I also wrote a "Demand" letter for my title that I will send registered mail to the Car Barn, tomorrow. :D
 
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Mr. Bills

TJ Addict
Nov 24, 2017
1,159
Area Code 530
Keep your demand letter simple, polite, but firm and to the point. Don't telegraph your punches, i.e., don't threaten to report them to the DMV or tell them that you have already filed a complaint or that you intend to sue them because any chance of negotiations to get your title and registration will be over if you do. Simply point out that California Vehicle Code section 4456(a)(2) requires car dealers to submit all registration and title paperwork to the DMV within 30 days of a used car sale, that it has already been twice that long, and you want written proof within 5 business days that the dealership has in fact submitted the paperwork to the DMV.

Then file your complaint with the DMV the same day. Be factual, and include a chronology so that the investigator assigned to your complaint can clearly see what happened and when. Be sure to attach copies of the entire sales contract and all related forms and paperwork plus copies of any DMV stickers or paperwork you did receive from the dealer. Also attach a copy of your demand letter.

Should you get a registration ticket before this is resolved, and you can't get the judge to dismiss the charges after you have told your story, then sue the dealer in small claims court for everything you are out because of the ticket. The theory is that "but for" the dealer's failure to submit your paperwork to the DMV as required by law you would not have received the ticket, and that the dealer's continued failure to follow the law even after you invited the dealer's attention to the relevant statute evidences a knowing and wilfull act of malice that warrants punitive damages up to the jurisdictional limit of the small claims court. The court probably won't award punitives, and will probably only award a sum equal to any fine or court costs you received, but it will be fun to demand them.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
 
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KimsJeep

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
Keep your demand letter simple, polite, but firm and to the point. Don't telegraph your punches, i.e., don't threaten to report them to the DMV or tell them that you have already filed a complaint or that you intend to sue them because any chance of negotiations to get your title and registration will be over if you do. Simply point out that California Vehicle Code section 4456(a)(2) requires car dealers to submit all registration and title paperwork to the DMV within 30 days of a used car sale, that it has already been twice that long, and you want written proof within 5 business days that the dealership has in fact submitted the paperwork to the DMV.

Then file your complaint with the DMV the same day. Be factual, and include a chronology so that the investigator assigned to your complaint can clearly see what happened and when. Be sure to attach copies of the entire sales contract and all related forms and paperwork plus copies of any DMV stickers or paperwork you did receive from the dealer. Also attach a copy of your demand letter.

Should you get a registration ticket before this is resolved, and you can't get the judge to dismiss the charges after you have told your story, then sue the dealer in small claims court for everything you are out because of the ticket. The theory is that "but for" the dealer's failure to submit your paperwork to the DMV as required by law you would not have received the ticket, and that the dealer's continued failure to follow the law even after you invited the dealer's attention to the relevant statute evidences a knowing and wilfull act of malice that warrants punitive damages up to the jurisdictional limit of the small claims court. The court probably won't award punitives, and will probably only award a sum equal to any fine or court costs you received, but it will be fun to demand them.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
This is what I wrote.....


This is my written demand for my title for my 1999 Jeep Wrangler TJ VIN 1J4FY19SXXP44.

According to CA Veh. Code 5753 (c)(1) I was entitled to get my title within 15 days of you getting payment. I have my credit card receipts that show I paid in full on Jan 5. 2019 and I have yet to receive my title or my registration. According to my calculations, you re 53 days past the 15 day period. (Not including the days since I wrote the demand.)


Please send me or deliver my title in the next week (starting from the date you signed for this letter) or I will go to the next step of requesting my $25. Per day starting from Jan. 21. 2019. Currently the sum would be as of 3-14-19 $1325. dollars. This of course doesn’t include the days from the date of this letter so I’m sure it will be closer to the 2500. Dollar mark as per the CA Veh. Code.

I have included the CA Veh Codes with this letter to show that you were supposed to have reported the sale to DMV with in 30 days. Which you told me 90. This paper also shows you were supposed to give me my title with in 15 days of my payment to you. I hope you find this information helpful for your future business transactions.



Think that was a little too harsh? I was pretty mad that he is lying to me about the time limit. He say's he has 90 days, but the 'code' say's 30.
 
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KimsJeep

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
I was reading a couple other complaints about this place on the BBB site. Same exact thing. They complained about the length of time to get registration and even though the complaints also quoted the law of only having 30 days, he keeps saying he has 90.
 

Mr. Bills

TJ Addict
Nov 24, 2017
1,159
Area Code 530
This is what I wrote.....


This is my written demand for my title for my 1999 Jeep Wrangler TJ VIN 1J4FY19SXXP44.

According to CA Veh. Code 5753 (c)(1) I was entitled to get my title within 15 days of you getting payment. I have my credit card receipts that show I paid in full on Jan 5. 2019 and I have yet to receive my title or my registration. According to my calculations, you re 53 days past the 15 day period. (Not including the days since I wrote the demand.)


Please send me or deliver my title in the next week (starting from the date you signed for this letter) or I will go to the next step of requesting my $25. Per day starting from Jan. 21. 2019. Currently the sum would be as of 3-14-19 $1325. dollars. This of course doesn’t include the days from the date of this letter so I’m sure it will be closer to the 2500. Dollar mark as per the CA Veh. Code.

I have included the CA Veh Codes with this letter to show that you were supposed to have reported the sale to DMV with in 30 days. Which you told me 90. This paper also shows you were supposed to give me my title with in 15 days of my payment to you. I hope you find this information helpful for your future business transactions.



Think that was a little too harsh? I was pretty mad that he is lying to me about the time limit. He say's he has 90 days, but the 'code' say's 30.
Leave out the paragraph about going to the next step. You can't get people to do what you want by threatening them. All they do is dig in their heels. As a noted in my other post, don't telegraph your punches or make threats about what you are going to do. Just do those things. They will find out soon enough that you mean business.
 
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KimsJeep

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
Leave out the paragraph about going to the next step. You can't get people to do what you want by threatening them. All they do is dig in their heels. As a noted in my other post, don't telegraph your punches or make threats about what you are going to do. Just do those things. They will find out soon enough that you mean business.
Ok, I have cooled off and what you say makes since. I am going to delete that part of the letter. I have also decided to wait till Monday or Tuesday to send the letter to him and send the complaint into DMV.

The reason I decided to wait is for one, like you say, he could just dig his heels in. For 2, I have been reading some complaints on his dealership on Google, BBB, and Yelp. He reply's to the complaints and he seems to say that he completes the transfer before the 90 days is up. ( These other people had the same issue as I do) So since I have called him and he now knows I know he hasn't done anything, I figure maybe he will do it, just like he did for the other complainants.

I have been doing a lot of researching, trying to find out if his claim that he gets 90 days to transfer it, is correct or not. So far, all I have found is the law is 30 days to report it. In his reply's to the people that had the same issue, he keeps stating he has 90. I got the letter as seen above from the Navy document, and I have also been getting my info right from CA DMV website.

I will say, once I get my title I am going to make it well known everywhere I can possibly do it. This guy needs to be stopped. Specially if he is not doing it correctly, 90 days instead of 30.
 
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KimsJeep

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
Oh, another thing I thought was strange, is in 2 of the complaints, (I think it was 2, now that I'm typing it not sure if was 2 or just the same one in different spots. LOL) he say's that he did the paperwork and told the people he had the title at his dealership, and told them the could come get it. I always thought DMV would send it in the mail, not give it to him? Strange. Unless he meant their registration tags and paper were there?
 
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KimsJeep

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
Ok, I was bored and curious to know if the Jeep had a lien on the title. I read one case where the person didn't get the title because it had a lien that wasn't met and this dealer neglected to tell them that or do anything about it. Sooo, I ran a vin check on it. LOL Only cost me 8 bucks, so not out a hole lot. I found out that there is no lien on it and it has a clean title, no salvage/junk. It was sold 3 times and the last time it was sold at auction in Nov of 2017. So from the time it sold at auction and I bought it from the dealer, it accumulated 50 miles. I don't know why it got sold at auction and I can't say what type of auction it was. Must not have been a salvage auction because I would think if it was, it would have a salvage title?
 

Mr. Bills

TJ Addict
Nov 24, 2017
1,159
Area Code 530
It is highly likely that your dealer acquired your jeep at auction. It was my first thought when you described the dealer's response when you inquired about your registration.

Most secondary used car dealers acquire their inventory from auction, not trade-ins or purchases from other dealers. I know of three dealer-only wholesale auto auctions in the Sacramento area, the largest of which is ADESA.

It is not unusual for the title and registration from an auction house to be a mess and there are frequent delays, but seldom more than 7-10 days. That does not excuse your dealer from complying with the statutory deadlines. Thirty days is plenty of time to acquire all of the necessary paperwork and submit it to the DMV even if there is a delay caused by the auction house.

BTW - the dealer-only wholesale auctions sell parts cars, salvage title cars, and cars with clear titles and little or nothing wrong with them. Many have auction days for RV's and boats. A good friend of mine in SoCal had a dealer's license and for years we would go together to the auction looking for a good used luxury car to use as a daily driver. The goal was to buy it right, detail it and put on new tires, drive it for a year without putting any more money into it, then flip it and go back to the auction for another. Although I never made a profit doing this, when I penciled it out after my friend retired I discovered that I had been able to drive late model luxury cars for nearly 10 years for little more than the cost of insurance and gas.

However, despite my good fortune, my advice is: Don't try this at home.
 
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Big Red 1

TJ Enthusiast
Oct 25, 2018
131
Virginia
I just went through this exact thing. I bought my tj in early September 2018 and apparently the previous owner had died and his wife traded it in. Well they sold me a vehicle without them being in possession of a title which is against the law! most dealerships do this and hope within 30 days they can have all the documents in line and move on. Well after 5 months and no title or hard plates, my lender calling me over not having the title for the Jeep to secure my loan, and the dealership giving me the same excuse that they should be there in 2 weeks, I had to lawyer up and sue. They had my title and tags the next week because the don’t want that publicity that they sold something they didn’t own. At this point, you have them where you want them, I would move to sue them and not suffice even after handing you the title because this is where you can seek compensation for your aggravation and maybe get your money back and keep your Jeep also. When I went to court they asked me what I wanted and I told them what I gave, $6,000 and judge said as long as it was under $50,000 they had to settle and pay. Their lawyers tried to say I already had title to the Jeep and all and the judge said they broke the law and from the day I filed the suit that I didn’t have the title because the dmv records released the title a week after the date. Good luck to you ma’am, only thing I regret is not asking for $49,000 :ROFLMAO: also, my lawyer fees had to be compensated by them so I the only thing I was out was my time really.
 
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KimsJeep

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
I just went through this exact thing. I bought my tj in early September 2018 and apparently the previous owner had died and his wife traded it in. Well they sold me a vehicle without them being in possession of a title which is against the law! most dealerships do this and hope within 30 days they can have all the documents in line and move on. Well after 5 months and no title or hard plates, my lender calling me over not having the title for the Jeep to secure my loan, and the dealership giving me the same excuse that they should be there in 2 weeks, I had to lawyer up and sue. They had my title and tags the next week because the don’t want that publicity that they sold something they didn’t own. At this point, you have them where you want them, I would move to sue them and not suffice even after handing you the title because this is where you can seek compensation for your aggravation and maybe get your money back and keep your Jeep also. When I went to court they asked me what I wanted and I told them what I gave, $6,000 and judge said as long as it was under $50,000 they had to settle and pay. Their lawyers tried to say I already had title to the Jeep and all and the judge said they broke the law and from the day I filed the suit that I didn’t have the title because the dmv records released the title a week after the date. Good luck to you sir, only thing I regret is not asking for $49,000 :ROFLMAO: also, my lawyer fees had to be compensated by them so I the only thing I was out was my time really.
Wow, sounds like you made out pretty good in the end. :D

For now I am going to do the demand letter come next week and also send the complaint to the DMV. If that doesn't get me no where, I have to go to the next step of possibly sueing them.
 
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Big Red 1

TJ Enthusiast
Oct 25, 2018
131
Virginia
Well I’ll sued under the advice of my lender and the dmv. That’s not me, I have never sued anybody but I was like you, pissed off to no end. A dealer won’t take you serious but when the police personally hand them summons and about that point they see you’re not f’ing around. The first 30 days is alright, the second thirty days they can get by filing extension and actually get 45 days extension; anything after that is gross negligence on their behalf.
 
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KimsJeep

KimsJeep

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Jan 5, 2019
339
Sacramento
Well I’ll sued under the advice of my lender and the dmv. That’s not me, I have never sued anybody but I was like you, pissed off to no end. A dealer won’t take you serious but when the police personally hand them summons and about that point they see you’re not f’ing around. The first 30 days is alright, the second thirty days they can get by filing extension and actually get 45 days extension; anything after that is gross negligence on their behalf.
I'm hoping it doesn't have to come to having to sue them, but if it does I guess I will learn something new. I have never sued anyone. I forgot to mention I plan on doing a complaint on them to the BBB too. The BBB contacts them and sends them a copy of the complaint. So I would think they would act a little faster if they know the BBB is involved. Course, who knows, maybe they don't care about that. LOL