TJ’s and JT’s: who else has both?

[Jeep_guy3]

Wondering who else has both a TJ and a Gladiator? Those that do, how do you spend your time/money on each?

In April this year I traded my 2007 Tacoma in for a 2021 Gladiator Mojave. The Gladiator hasn’t gotten much for upgrades, so far I put in an ARB compressor, new wheels, and rear airbags. It’s technically my DD, but having a take home car for work saves tons of miles on it.

My TJ is my toy, I’ve had it for 10 years now and love taking it off road and to the trails. She definitely gets used, but not abused.

 

[TJ Bosco]

Hum, I need to do that. I'm 2/3 of the way there. I have a TJ, a Tacoma, and a big want of a Mojave.

 

[Jeep_guy3]

Do it! The Mojave is awesome. No regrets getting rid of the Taco… that said, I got the Taco in 2017 because I knew it would hold its value when I was ready for a Gladiator.

 

[Mobusaki]

I've been thinking about this, although it would be a couple years before I could do it. My purpose for the Gladiator would be the same as yours, DD and towing. How has it been for towing the TJ? Does it handle steep grades well?

 

[Jeep_guy3]

I've been thinking about this, although it would be a couple years before I could do it. My purpose for the Gladiator would be the same as yours, DD and towing. How has it been for towing the TJ? Does it handle steep grades well?

Unfortunately I’ve not gotten to tow any distance with it, I installed the Mopar brake controller and got to test it for a trip around the neighborhood and down to the highway scales by my house. I will say the short trip I took it on, it seemed to tow better then my Tacoma, which I towed the TJ from Oregon to Moab without issue.

 

[jwilson2899]

I did for almost 2 years, but then I reassigned the LJ to Rich a couple weeks ago. Adulting is hard.

As another former 2017 Tacoma owner you couldn’t pay me to go back. The Gladiator is better than it in every way and has spent way less time in the shop than the Tacoma did. The 3.5 and auto in the Tacoma sucks major balls.

 

[TRE3TOP]

I did for almost 2 years, but then I reassigned the LJ to Rich a couple weeks ago. Adulting is hard.

As another former 2017 Tacoma owner you couldn’t pay me to go back. The Gladiator is better than it in every way and has spent way less time in the shop than the Tacoma did. The 3.5 and auto in the Tacoma sucks major balls.

View attachment 285442

His Tacoma was an 07 which would have had the 4.0 v6. Is the newer engine really that bad? I had zero issues with my 4.0 in my 4Runner from 75k-186k.

 

[BugoutJeep]

My wife and I really like the new Gladiators, especially with the diesel option. If I knew for certain I could tow what the Dodge 1500s could tow we might trade in our Taco too. I wonder if any dealerships would let me borrow a Gladiator and tow well past the rating to see if it's the right fit.

However I think we're gonna keep the Taco and I'm planning on building my Jeep truck from a YJ and to make sure it'll do the towing I'm planning on a 6BT and really reinventing the wheel and running as much 1 ton stuff as I can fit without the width of a 1 ton, but I'm trying to make the overall dimensions pretty similar to a second gen 4 door Tacoma. Of course the timing may not work out and I'll just pickup another ton truck if prices will ever become reasonable. The truck will likely finish at probably somewhere around 7k lbs, and I'm hoping the CG won't be too crazy with a 6BT, since I plan on beefing up everything including the frame, but running a nice flatbed with gooseneck hitch.

 

[tworley]

@hosejockey61 can share his thoughts on towing a TJ with his JT. I sure had a hard time keeping up with him on the passes when I was towing my junk right behind him

 

[machoheadgames]

His Tacoma was an 07 which would have had the 4.0 v6. Is the newer engine really that bad? I had zero issues with my 4.0 in my 4Runner from 75k-186k.

The newer engine isn't too bad, but the gearing is absolutely horrendous. The older 4.0 had more torque and less HP, given the same trans and axle ratio on each, I think the 4.0 would win since torque is what matters. But the power difference overall is very slight. What is truly killing the 3.5 is the poor axle ratio and poor trans ratios. You could regear the 3.5 as deep as possible which would help a lot but it would still be pretty bad. Haven't run the numbers in a while but the auto has two very deep OD ratios and runs in the mid teens for rpm on the highway if I remember right, like 1700 rpm at highway speed. Abysmal.

Gladiators have better gearing, and about the same power and better trans ratios especially with the 8 speed, so all things being equal, the Gladiator does better. This is of course an auto to auto comparison

Manual to manual, the numbers suggest a manual gladiator would perform about the same as a manual Tacoma. I have not proven that one to myself personally though. The manual tacoma to auto tacoma, the manual would be much better, it has much more usable trans ratios and a better axle ratio. I'd consider either trans in the gladiator, and only the manual in the tacoma. And I'd still regear probably any of them except maybe not the auto Gladiator.

Overall I'd rather have the Gladiator but that price really hurts.

 

[machoheadgames]

I did for almost 2 years, but then I reassigned the LJ to Rich a couple weeks ago. Adulting is hard.

As another former 2017 Tacoma owner you couldn’t pay me to go back. The Gladiator is better than it in every way and has spent way less time in the shop than the Tacoma did. The 3.5 and auto in the Tacoma sucks major balls.

View attachment 285442

Yeah, people act like the Tacoma is something special and some million mile vehicle with nary a problem, that is really not true. I like them just fine but that auto transmission is awful. Definitely the worst part of the truck IMO. The only other thing I don't really like about the Tacoma is the drum brakes. For the cost of a Tacoma, there really is no excuse.

Did you have any other issues with it besides the trans?

 

[BugoutJeep]

The newer engine isn't too bad, but the gearing is absolutely horrendous. The older 4.0 had more torque and less HP, given the same trans and axle ratio on each, I think the 4.0 would win since torque is what matters. But the power difference overall is very slight. What is truly killing the 3.5 is the poor axle ratio and poor trans ratios. You could regear the 3.5 as deep as possible which would help a lot but it would still be pretty bad. Haven't run the numbers but the auto has two very deep OD ratios and runs in the mid teens for rpm on the highway if I remember right, like 1700 rpm at highway speed. Abysmal.

Gladiators have better gearing, and about the same power and better trans ratios especially with the 8 speed, so all things being equal, the Gladiator does better. This is of course an auto to auto comparison

Manual to manual, the numbers suggest a manual gladiator would perform about the same as a manual Tacoma. I have not proven that one to myself personally though. The manual tacoma to auto tacoma, the manual would be much better, it has much more usable trans ratios and a better axle ratio. I'd consider either trans in the gladiator, and only the manual in the tacoma. And I'd still regear probably any of them except maybe not the auto Gladiator.

Overall I'd rather have the Gladiator but that price really hurts.

We got the 4.0 in the Taco and there's no way I'd go 3.5 in one and we also got the 3.73 axles, as it's not even enough IMO, but no way would I want 3.5:1 and we won't be going bigger with the tires either.

I've towed my Jeep and some others a few times and man do I like having a 3/4 ton truck. Our little Taco could do it, but IMO it doesn't like towing much over a few thousand lbs, but once you get used to 3/4 and 1 ton diesel trucks, it's hard to go back IMO.

Also I suggest having the Tacoma transmission fluid flushed way more often than OEM recommends and I suggest driving it mostly in D until you get into like cruising speeds. We got our Taco cheap because it had shifting issues and we started manually shifting (just D to OD) and had the transmission flushed and from what we've read their fluid breaks down WAY sooner than change interval and can hurt the shifting valves. Of course I just don't trust the Taco transmission to hold up to much towing. I do trust a manual 3/4 ton.

I towed a Willy's (on a 2k lb empty trailer) with my TJ with 3.07s and the inline 6 4.0 and that sucked.

 

[BugoutJeep]

I wouldn't go manual in the Taco. I find that on the highway the truck is shifting a lot. I've played around A LOT with torque curves and gear ratios and IMO the Tacoma doesn't have enough torque from the engine, nor the axles. The Tacoma can't maintain speed in the upper gear ratios of the transmission on anything but the slightest inclines. The engine torque is too low at those RPMs on the highway and really should have a different gear ratio like 4.10s unless you're just trying to sneak out .5 mpg running a completely empty truck with road tires with an aware driver. Anything else and your arm is gonna be shifting A LOT. And these trucks with cruise control are constantly shifting and if you compensate for upcoming conditions it still needs to shift very often.

And with these autos shifting so often and a transmission fluid that does not have the life that Toyota says it does, they're really just trying to not do a fluid flush and your transmission will likely suffer damage prematurely. The constant shifting and light shifting increases the heat of the fluid and decreasing the life of the friction modifiers and can cause some slippage and other issues that are hard on the shifting valves.

You won't have that problem with the manual, but the gearing is already mismatched with the engine. Unless you got the D4D engine which the central planners won't allow us to have. Because why would we want 300 ft lbs at 1,200 rpms and 30 mpg, that wouldn't make sense....

 

[machoheadgames]

I wouldn't go manual in the Taco. I find that on the highway the truck is shifting a lot. I've played around A LOT with torque curves and gear ratios and IMO the Tacoma doesn't have enough torque from the engine, nor the axles. The Tacoma can't maintain speed in the upper gear ratios of the transmission on anything but the slightest inclines. The engine torque is too low at those RPMs on the highway and really should have a different gear ratio like 4.10s unless you're just trying to sneak out .5 mpg running a completely empty truck with road tires with an aware driver. Anything else and your arm is gonna be shifting A LOT. And these trucks with cruise control are constantly shifting and if you compensate for upcoming conditions it still needs to shift very often.

And with these autos shifting so often and a transmission fluid that does not have the life that Toyota says it does, they're really just trying to not do a fluid flush and your transmission will likely suffer damage prematurely. The constant shifting and light shifting increases the heat of the fluid and decreasing the life of the friction modifiers and can cause some slippage and other issues that are hard on the shifting valves.

You won't have that problem with the manual, but the gearing is already mismatched with the engine. Unless you got the D4D engine which the central planners won't allow us to have. Because why would we want 300 ft lbs at 1,200 rpms and 30 mpg, that wouldn't make sense....

The manuals have very different ratios though, makes for much less downshifting compared to the auto. So the driving experience wouldn't really be the same, and the arm shouldn't be nearly as tired.

 

[BugoutJeep]

The manuals have very different ratios though, makes for much less downshifting compared to the auto. So the driving experience wouldn't really be the same, and the arm shouldn't be nearly as tired.

I know but the rear end axle ratio is mismatched for the torque the engine produces and any type of OD in a manual. If the manual is gonna be numerically 1 or larger, then it'll be fine, but you'll be shifting if you've got anything numerically under 1 and that's even running 3.73:1 and real world conditions. If you've got 4.1 or larger and you're stock an you're running very well mannered tires, you might not have to shift often.

I don't quite know what the ratios in the transmissions are, but it seems like when it shifts, it's jumping up very high and I would guess it tends to go into 3rd on inclines and even then seems to take a lot of throttle. IMO I think I should at least be flirting with peak torque in OD on the highway and typically I'd rather solidly be in that range. Of course I'm more used to diesel where the fuel economy is of very little concern. I do think gas engines are a little weirder about this, but I think RPMs are like hundreds of RPMs too low in OD and I don't imagine it's gonna improve much unless the OD is 20 or 30% numerically higher than the Auto. Granted I'm used to diesel where the RPMs are usually hundreds of RPMs above peak torque, which is where I want to cruise, because without enough torque then you can't maintain speed. In a manual I'd have to shift down to get my RPMs up to get more torque and simultaneously I'd have a gear ratio that would also give me more torque, but that's a lot of shifting and planning for the road. That would also mean cruise control is mostly useless too.

 

[BugoutJeep]

I've had a bunch of manual cars and motorcycles and I'm newish to manual trucks and I tended toward going fast except my first manual which was a cheap Civic I destroyed. My 4x4s were all V8 autos until the last decade and when I got my TJ and that was the first vehicle I ever had that couldn't maintain highway speed in OD and then I swapped out the 4.0 for the R2.8 and the highway shifting disappeared. I got a Dodge 2500 with a Cummins and that doesn't need to shift either. I'm just mentioning that so you can see my bias and not being familiar with shifting on the highway.

My granddad told me about they used to pull stuff with whatever they had and if it needed 4L to go up a hill, that's what they did, so I'm spoiled, but IMO it's too easy to gear a vehicle more appropriately for the highway that the need to shift an empty vehicle is not a thought.

Also these are expensive vehicles, why wouldn't my vehicle be able to maintain highway speed in OD? It's not an RV or something incredibly unique.

 

[jwilson2899]

His Tacoma was an 07 which would have had the 4.0 v6. Is the newer engine really that bad? I had zero issues with my 4.0 in my 4Runner from 75k-186k.

It’s the combination of the gearing and transmission that lets it down. It really has to rev up to make any power, but the gear ratios aren’t really spaced right, so it ends up hunting for gears a lot and screaming downshifts to go up hills. I tried for the 2+ years I had it to like it, but just couldn’t.

 

[jwilson2899]

Yeah, people act like the Tacoma is something special and some million mile vehicle with nary a problem, that is really not true. I like them just fine but that auto transmission is awful. Definitely the worst part of the truck IMO. The only other thing I don't really like about the Tacoma is the drum brakes. For the cost of a Tacoma, there really is no excuse.

Did you have any other issues with it besides the trans?

Yeah, I forgot about the rear drums too. They basically slapped a new engine and trans, as well as interior and sheet metal on a second Gen and called it a day. That worked when there wasn’t much competition, but now they have to up their game.

As far as problems, it had plenty. In 43,000 miles it had a rear axle whine, cam sensor recall, whole cab repainted because of issus with the blazing blue paint, and a frame rust recall. I really don’t miss it one bit, JT is better in every way. Even my wife who is usually pretty neutral on these things told me how glad she was I got rid of it and got the Gladiator.

 

[hosejockey61]

I have both. The TJ as my rock crawler and the JT for a DD, tow rig, and lighter trails.

When towing my TJ, a weight distributing hitch is a must. I bought the brake controller but haven't installed it yet. It isn't as bad of a tow vehicle as people think, but to be clear, it isn't a diesel nor a V8. But it does good for what it is. We have some tough passes in Colorado and on the steepest ones it shows.

 

[Plumber1]

95 and a 05