TJ is peak. Anyone tried to de-modernize theirs?

Why not just buy a CJ?

The PCM thing is dramatically blown out of proportion. For all the stories you read about, there are hundreds of others with no issues whatsoever.
Perhaps so. Personally my PCM(s) has given me repeated issues. But my point is that a computer and sensors detract from a machine's ability to be easily repaired. If there is an element to a machine that is not easily repaired I consider it a weak point.

"Redundancy is the duplication of critical components or functions of a system with the intention of increasing reliability of the system." We carry multiple sources of air, spare tires, hoses, fluids, etc etc. Almost everything can be repaired or bypassed. While it may be true that people have gone decades without problems, that does not technically mean that a computer doesn't detract from our normal habit of redundancy. The same is almost true of an automatic transmission, although technically it could be opened up in the field and rebuilt. And I suppose you could carry an extra PCM that's programmed to your vehicle.

Hasn't anyone ever heard someone say "In the old days you could fix your car with a couple of wrenches." ?
 
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That's interesting about the poorly seated wiring harness. Where exactly was it loose?

I was getting a CPS/CAM sensor code. Replaced both and symptoms were inconsistent. Running, not running, turning over, no turning over. The loose connection was right at the PCM on the firewall. I pushed on it, heard it click into place and never havent had an issue since. That was almost 40k miles ago.
 
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I went through a phase where I was more concerned than the average person about things like an EMP or a coronal mass ejection frying every piece of electronic on earth and leaving my Jeep useless. But, I regularly drive my TJ in elevations ranging from 4,000 to 10,000' with jaunts up near 13,000' a couple of times per year. I would HATE having a carburetor.

I do read the threads on this forum about people having various issues with the more advanced electronics in their later TJ's, and I always think how glad I am to have a 99 with a distributor and an AX15.
I wasn't even thinking about EMPs or solar storms. Though I have in the past. I'm looking at it purely from an engineering point of view. We all love our TJs because it's a workhorse. My PCM problems have made me hyper-aware of the vulnerabilities in the computer and electronics.

You make an interesting point about elevation. I'm up there too. I wonder if it would be possible to toggle back and forth...

Could you elaborate about your '99? I'm not familiar with that year.
 
I was getting a CPS/CAM sensor code. Replaced both and symptoms were inconsistent. Running, not running, turning over, no turning over. The loose connection was right at the PCM on the firewall. I pushed on it, heard it click into place and never havent had an issue since. That was almost 40k miles ago.
Interesting. Do you know a good place to get a new wiring harness or just the PCM connections?
 
It's worth mentioning from the start that I have an '06 model, but I wanted to comment to say that I've had similar feelings/thoughts about mine. Even with mine being an '06, I'm on the fence with those thoughts though.

When I start to think how much I'd like to remove the computer annoyances from the equation, I think back to what's already been mentioned. Compared to modern vehicles, our computer controlled components are pretty minimal. With that said, aside from the ridiculous "all-in-one" route they took with the computer, we would have to step quite a ways back in time, and remove the computer all together. Like what's already been mentioned as far as that goes, the idea of having to tinker on a carb isn't something I would prefer to do.

That thinking turns into me just wishing that they would at least separated the different control modules.

The progress and outcome of doing what you mentioned would be interesting to see though.
That's interesting - "separated the control modules." I wonder if it would be possible to bypass certain sensors and control modules. Or, as I replied to someone else, I wonder if you could toggle the fuel injection system on and off.
 
I think you guys solved it. What if we used all that real estate under the hood to bolt in a carburetor and distributor and then flipped a switch to run them if the computer/sensor/control module malfunctions?......

I'm doing it.
 
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I wasn't even thinking about EMPs or solar storms. Though I have in the past. I'm looking at it purely from an engineering point of view. We all love our TJs because it's a workhorse. My PCM problems have made me hyper-aware of the vulnerabilities in the computer and electronics.

You make an interesting point about elevation. I'm up there too. I wonder if it would be possible to toggle back and forth...

Could you elaborate about your '99? I'm not familiar with that year.

Electronically speaking, my observation is that TJ's break down into 3 groups - 97-99, 2000-2004, and 2005-2006, with significant added complexity with each step.

A few things that come to mind; 97-99 had a distributor, so no OPDA or cam position sensor or individual coil packs. It only has 2 oxygen sensors, 1 upstream and 1 down. With the MAP, IAT, and TPS it's basically the smallest number of sensors possible in an OBD2 system. Mine is a manual but if it had an automatic it would be the hydraulic 32RH. The headlight switch is the old fashioned pull knob in the dash below the instrument cluster, so though the multifunction switch is still failure prone, it doesn't screw as much stuff up when it does fail.
 
Never had a problem with the computer on the TJ, or any other car I've owned. Sensors, yes, but not the computer.

I grew up working on carbs, points, condensers, old school. And have fully embraced EFI & electronic ignition. I've had way less problems.

I can easily hear (and feel) the stereo. And go figure, I get a lot better than 10 mpg too.
How much better than 10mpg?

I agree that fuel injection is better for many reasons. Not disagreeing with that. But I would like to be able to bypass it if necessary.
 
Electronically speaking, my observation is that TJ's break down into 3 groups - 97-99, 2000-2004, and 2005-2006, with significant added complexity with each step.

A few things that come to mind; 97-99 had a distributor, so no OPDA or cam position sensor or individual coil packs. It only has 2 oxygen sensors, 1 upstream and 1 down. With the MAP, IAT, and TPS it's basically the smallest number of sensors possible in an OBD2 system. Mine is a manual but if it had an automatic it would be the hydraulic 32RH. The headlight switch is the old fashioned pull knob in the dash below the instrument cluster, so though the multifunction switch is still failure prone, it doesn't screw as much stuff up when it does fail.
Interesting. Fuel injection and a distributor. That's half-way to where I'm trying to get.

I am not a transmission expert. I do have the 32rh and I assume it is controlled entirely by the computer. Is it possible to have an automatic without a computer? Manual is of course better for this.
 
That's interesting - "separated the control modules." I wonder if it would be possible to bypass certain sensors and control modules. Or, as I replied to someone else, I wonder if you could toggle the fuel injection system on and off.
I only know of one right now. The voltage regulator is one that I have already bought and have plans to install. Me being the type of person that I am, I ordered an OE style plug to use for the alternator, instead of hacking into my factory harness. There's full kits online for doing this bypass, or you can buy the specific parts you want.

The TCM, I believe is giving me troubles, although they're not detrimental at the moment. I don't know if there's a way around that part.
 
I wasn't even thinking about EMPs or solar storms. Though I have in the past. I'm looking at it purely from an engineering point of view. We all love our TJs because it's a workhorse. My PCM problems have made me hyper-aware of the vulnerabilities in the computer and electronics.

You make an interesting point about elevation. I'm up there too. I wonder if it would be possible to toggle back and forth...

Could you elaborate about your '99? I'm not familiar with that year.
No electrical issues that were difficult to track down?

I'm curious whether you were the original owner of your TJ so you could keep it in mint condition. Mine's second-hand so I've been updating things for years. Not sure how the previous owner treated it.
I was the original owner of my '97 TJ which had no PCM problems, I bought my current '04 TJ used after multiple owners and with a salvage title. No PCM problems with it either.

I have followed TJs and their issues for well over 20 years and the issues you are complaining about with your 2002 TJ are not typical, common, or complained about. There are known PCM issues with 2005/6 TJs but not with 2004 and older. Have there ever been any problems with a 2002 PCM? No doubt, you have had problems with yours but it's not a common trait of 2002 or even 2004 and older PCMS.
 
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How much better than 10mpg?

I agree that fuel injection is better for many reasons. Not disagreeing with that. But I would like to be able to bypass it if necessary.
Like 15 or 16 mpg. It really depends on what I'm doing & how I'm driving.
But lets face it, the Wrangler isn't really built for mileage. It's as aerodynamic as a brick, has big, wide tires & is running a tractor engine.
The EFI is good for other things too..... like maintaining good fuel delivery no matter what angle the Jeep is on, or what elevation it's at. My YJ had problems on hill climbs. And I was constantly messing with points on it to keep it running.
 
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TJs are pretty simple. The only electronic nanny I hate is the Rubis locker controls. I love carbs and would love an old CJ but I know the EFI gives better emissions and fuel economy. I can't imagine swapping in a carb on the 4.0L..... If you want a carb you pretty much have to buy a pre 1970 Jeep built before emissions were an issue.

If your comments were referring to the JLs, JTs, you are on the money, waaayyy too many nanny controlled, limp home, stay in touch, shit for me. I remember Corvettes when radio delete, off road exhaust, heater/defroster delete and 35 gallon fuel tank were options. This year the 4cylinder JL comes with a 48volt lithium ion battery which has an AC loop to keep it cool plus a coolant loop to keep it warm..... tucked beside the rear driveshaft.

But the best way to get away from the computers if you hate them is to buy something which came with a carburetor.

ps, my '05 has had no computer issues.
 
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I have the solution!!! 2-stroke, kickstart, no battery and no seat belts!!!

rxb350-blw-graphics_2000x.jpg
 
I only know of one right now. The voltage regulator is one that I have already bought and have plans to install. Me being the type of person that I am, I ordered an OE style plug to use for the alternator, instead of hacking into my factory harness. There's full kits online for doing this bypass, or you can buy the specific parts you want.

The TCM, I believe is giving me troubles, although they're not detrimental at the moment. I don't know if there's a way around that part.
You're saying you got an external voltage regulator? So you're bypassing the one in the PCM? Interesting
 
TJs are pretty simple. The only electronic nanny I hate is the Rubis locker controls. I love carbs and would love an old CJ but I know the EFI gives better emissions and fuel economy. I can't imagine swapping in a carb on the 4.0L..... If you want a carb you pretty much have to buy a pre 1970 Jeep built before emissions were an issue.

If your comments were referring to the JLs, JTs, you are on the money, waaayyy too many nanny controlled, limp home, stay in touch, shit for me. I remember Corvettes when radio delete, off road exhaust, heater/defroster delete and 35 gallon fuel tank were options. This year the 4cylinder JL comes with a 48volt lithium ion battery which has an AC loop to keep it cool plus a coolant loop to keep it warm..... tucked beside the rear driveshaft.

But the best way to get away from the computers if you hate them is to buy something which came with a carburetor.

ps, my '05 has had no computer issues.
Pre 1970? Is that so you can register it as a historic vehicle and circumvent emissions laws?

Would it be difficult or impossible to put a carb into a 4.0?

I'm including JKs too.

FYI I saw your profile my cousin has a 1944 from the war. Still has German bullet holes in it.
 
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