TJ pulling slightly left after lift

Magua

Magua

New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
23
Location
Martinsville, IL
First off...I’ve got to say thanks to many on the forum for the awesome info and recommendations. Because of all the things I read on here, I installed 2” OME HD springs and Rancho RS5000X shocks along with a rear track bar relocation bracket to my previously stock 2004 Rubicon. I went ahead and dropped the TC about 9/16”. There are no adjustable track bars or control arms either. I left the stock 245/75R16 tires on as well with 26psi in all 4.

I did the alignment myself. I triple checked it. I started out clamping square tubing to the discs and got the toe in set to the 1/16”-1/8” range. Then I checked it again measuring the tires...measurements came out the same. I centered the steering wheel. I took the Jeep for a spin, and it drifts left slightly. So I jacked her back up, pulled the tires off, and clamped the tubing back on the discs and remeasured. Everything checked out. After the lift, the front axle is off-center maybe 1/4” to the driver’s side.

The drift is not a hard pull, but if I let go of the steering wheel it would probably go 200’ before I’d be running off the left side of the road (of a narrow two lane road I should add). It’s not overly noticeable while holding on to the steering wheel. Everything else is perfect...no vibes at all and an amazing ride with the new shocks and coils.

I used the drag link to center the steering wheel only and the tie rod bar to adjust the toe. I did come across the factory service manual for the 2004 TJ posted on a thread here that said use the drag link to adjust the right toe and the tie rod bar to adjust the left toe. I did not do it that way.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
 
Magua said:
First off...I’ve got to say thanks to many on the forum for the awesome info and recommendations. Because of all the things I read on here, I installed 2” OME HD springs and Rancho RS5000X shocks along with a rear track bar relocation bracket to my previously stock 2004 Rubicon. I went ahead and dropped the TC about 9/16”. There are no adjustable track bars or control arms either. I left the stock 245/75R16 tires on as well with 26psi in all 4.

I did the alignment myself. I triple checked it. I started out clamping square tubing to the discs and got the toe in set to the 1/16”-1/8” range. Then I checked it again measuring the tires...measurements came out the same. I centered the steering wheel. I took the Jeep for a spin, and it drifts left slightly. So I jacked her back up, pulled the tires off, and clamped the tubing back on the discs and remeasured. Everything checked out. After the lift, the front axle is off-center maybe 1/4” to the driver’s side.

The drift is not a hard pull, but if I let go of the steering wheel it would probably go 200’ before I’d be running off the left side of the road (of a narrow two lane road I should add). It’s not overly noticeable while holding on to the steering wheel. Everything else is perfect...no vibes at all and an amazing ride with the new shocks and coils.

I used the drag link to center the steering wheel only and the tie rod bar to adjust the toe. I did come across the factory service manual for the 2004 TJ posted on a thread here that said use the drag link to adjust the right toe and the tie rod bar to adjust the left toe. I did not do it that way.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
The number one rule I have for all of my helpers is NEVER test a rig and how it drives by checking for a pull with your hands off the steering wheel.

#1- cross caster is built into the front axle to combat a specific amount of road crown. If you do not drive on a road with that level of crown, it will not drive straight so that makes what you are doing a dumb test. Stop doing dumb tests.

#2- if you did not drive the rig previous on a road surface where it drove perfectly straight with your hands off of the steering wheel, you are doing a dumb test. Stop doing dumb tests.

#3- if your steering gear is not perfectly centered, the torsion bar is turning the valve open slightly to one side to provide assist in turning that direction and will cause a pull which again, makes this a dumb test. Stop doing dumb tests.

#4- if you are driving a rig with your hands off of the steering wheel and something happens like hitting a pothole, having a blow-out, or some other high energy event, not having your hands on the steering wheel may cause enough of a delayed reaction to worsen the chances of recovery which makes this a dumb test. Stop doing dumb tests.

#5- The factory service manual is both right and wrong. You can NOT set right and left toe independently of each other because the rig will average them both out to go straight down the road. BTW- did I mention to stop doing dumb tests yet?
 
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mrblaine said:
The number one rule I have for all of my helpers is NEVER test a rig and how it drives by checking for a pull with your hands off the steering wheel.
Click to expand...

So, my first question is how do you recommend testing for a pull without a test drive? "Hands off the steering wheel" I guess was easier and more efficient to type than "I loosened my grip on the steering wheel so that I could then feel the Jeep pull ever so slightly to the left." I'm not doing this roller coaster style...throwing both hands high in the air as I go over a blind hill at interstate speeds. I guess I also didn't state that I live in the country, so I also wasn't doing "dumb tests" on a highway at highway speeds or through a subdivision or a school zone while school was in session. How about the folks that are driving home from the alignment shop that notice something is off? How do they know their alignment is not quite right? Is their test method considered dumb? At some point, after we get our Jeeps bolted back together, we all have to do a "dumb test" and test drive our trucks to see what adjustments need to be made. I apologize for making the generalized and misleading statement of "taking my hands off the wheel."

As I said...the pull to the left is not severe, but it is happening. It's almost unnoticeable while driving, but if I loosen my grip, it drifts left. I test drove it 30-40 miles (with at least one hand on the steering wheel at all times...it's a manual, so my right hand was preoccupied every now and then). If it was a violent or severe pull left, it would have been noticeable as soon as I pulled out of the driveway, and I would have instantly turned around (of course using the hand over hand method to turn my wheel, so that I never have to have a hand off of my steering wheel) and returned back to my garage.

mrblaine said:
#3- if your steering gear is not perfectly centered, the torsion bar is turning the valve open slightly to one side to provide assist in turning that direction and will cause a pull which again, makes this a dumb test. Stop doing dumb tests.
Click to expand...

All smart-assery aside...

I would say this explains it. So in other words...if I adjust my steering wheel slightly to the right of where it is now, this could fix my pull left? It sounds like this is what I need to work on. If my steering wheel is off-center, it is hardly visible, but that obviously doesn't mean anything.

mrblaine said:
#5- The factory service manual is both right and wrong. You can NOT set right and left toe independently of each other because the rig will average them both out to go straight down the road. BTW- did I mention to stop doing dumb tests yet?
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you, that's why I did not do it the way the FSM stated...it just surprised me that it does actually say it...as copied from the 2004 FSM and pasted below:


"(3) Adjust the right wheel toe position with the drag link (Fig. 4). Turn the sleeve until the right wheel is at the correct positive TOE-IN position. Position the clamp bolts as shown (Fig. 3) and tighten to 49 N·m (36 ft. lbs.). Make sure the toe setting does not change during clamp tightening.
(4) Adjust the left wheel toe position with the tie
rod. Turn the sleeve until the left wheel is at the same TOE-IN position as the right wheel."
 
Magua said:
First off...I’ve got to say thanks to many on the forum for the awesome info and recommendations. Because of all the things I read on here, I installed 2” OME HD springs and Rancho RS5000X shocks along with a rear track bar relocation bracket to my previously stock 2004 Rubicon. I went ahead and dropped the TC about 9/16”. There are no adjustable track bars or control arms either. I left the stock 245/75R16 tires on as well with 26psi in all 4.

I did the alignment myself. I triple checked it. I started out clamping square tubing to the discs and got the toe in set to the 1/16”-1/8” range. Then I checked it again measuring the tires...measurements came out the same. I centered the steering wheel. I took the Jeep for a spin, and it drifts left slightly. So I jacked her back up, pulled the tires off, and clamped the tubing back on the discs and remeasured. Everything checked out. After the lift, the front axle is off-center maybe 1/4” to the driver’s side.

The drift is not a hard pull, but if I let go of the steering wheel it would probably go 200’ before I’d be running off the left side of the road (of a narrow two lane road I should add). It’s not overly noticeable while holding on to the steering wheel. Everything else is perfect...no vibes at all and an amazing ride with the new shocks and coils.

I used the drag link to center the steering wheel only and the tie rod bar to adjust the toe. I did come across the factory service manual for the 2004 TJ posted on a thread here that said use the drag link to adjust the right toe and the tie rod bar to adjust the left toe. I did not do it that way.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

Sounds like you took the tire off. I would do it with the tires on. No Matter how straight I get things I have to drive it a few feet several times to get the steering wheel straight. Good luck!
 
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How much are computer alignments where you live? I did my 4" lift w 8 all new CAs that are adjustable, which means to align my jeep they have to un bolt them to make adjustments not just turn some cam bolts and all said and done it was 80 bucks, but I guarantee I'll save at least 80 bucks worth tire tread and component wear a year let alone the saftey and comfort factors. Now I did a preliminary alignment to get it to the shop, but if it didnt feel right I would towed it, either way on way to alignment shop about 8-9 miles away it wasn't bad, but did catch a groove once and went sudden right, after computer alignment...so dreamy smooth. Go get a computer alignment if your gonna roll 55 plus on the highway life you save could be yours or mine...

As for your issue my only input would be to ask if you tightened everything back up with the jeep sitting on it's own weight on the ground, tightening track bars, CAs, etc in the air leave them in a pre loaded and bound state that can cause what your describing.
 
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JPAZIDO said:
Sounds like you took the tire off. I would do it with the tires on. No Matter how straight I get things I have to drive it a few feet several times to get the steering wheel straight. Good luck!
Click to expand...

I think you're right about several attempts.

I had the tires off for the toe adjustment, but had them back on for re-centering the steering wheel. I messed with the steering wheel a few more times this evening, and it feels perfect now.
 
Pzilly said:
How much are computer alignments where you live? I did my 4" lift w 8 all new CAs that are adjustable, which means to align my jeep they have to un bolt them to make adjustments not just turn some cam bolts and all said and done it was 80 bucks, but I guarantee I'll save at least 80 bucks worth tire tread and component wear a year let alone the saftey and comfort factors. Now I did a preliminary alignment to get it to the shop, but if it didnt feel right I would towed it, either way on way to alignment shop about 8-9 miles away it wasn't bad, but did catch a groove once and went sudden right, after computer alignment...so dreamy smooth. Go get a computer alignment if your gonna roll 55 plus on the highway life you save could be yours or mine...

As for your issue my only input would be to ask if you tightened everything back up with the jeep sitting on it's own weight on the ground, tightening track bars, CAs, etc in the air leave them in a pre loaded and bound state that can cause what your describing.
Click to expand...

It's probably $80-$100 for an alignment where I'm at. I don't have anything adjustable (except from sway bar links, but those don't count)...everything is stock except for the springs and shocks. So there's not much they can do except for toe, is there? If I had adjustable CA's...I wouldn't hesitate to take it in for an alignment.

However, now that you mention it...I believe I did tighten the track bars on the ground, but not the lower control arms. I did those while it was still in the air. Can't believe I overlooked that one! I'll loosen and re-torque all of those bolts just to see. I also don't think that I got my steering wheel re-centered just right. I played with it some more this evening, and it seems to be much better now. Thanks for the the input!
 
Where I am, $180 at Firestone gets you lifetime alignment on your vehicle. Once you do a lift, and some other mods, plus the natural decay, it always seems like a good deal to me. Take it in twice a year at least.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
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Magua said:
It's probably $80-$100 for an alignment where I'm at. I don't have anything adjustable (except from sway bar links, but those don't count)...everything is stock except for the springs and shocks. So there's not much they can do except for toe, is there? If I had adjustable CA's...I wouldn't hesitate to take it in for an alignment.

However, now that you mention it...I believe I did tighten the track bars on the ground, but not the lower control arms. I did those while it was still in the air. Can't believe I overlooked that one! I'll loosen and re-torque all of those bolts just to see. I also don't think that I got my steering wheel re-centered just right. I played with it some more this evening, and it seems to be much better now. Thanks for the the input!
Click to expand...

NP, Keep us posted, i once got tired and tightened the rear leaf spring shackles on my duramax while up on my lift, she was a bit bouncy the next morning lol. I believe you still have cam bolts along w toe, either way if your on the highway often then even a little out eats tires and wears at ball joints, tie rods etc... since no CAs to adjust I bet they would do it for 60 cash, I have two places that do that for me on my regular stuff.
 
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Magua said:
So, my first question is how do you recommend testing for a pull without a test drive?
Click to expand...

You can't test for a pull without a test drive. The best way to test for any oddity that one may run across while driving normally is to drive it normally and put yourself in the mindset of not looking for anything. Just go drive it and if something is off kilter enough to be noticed, it will typically make itself known, if it doesn't, then it is usually not worth worrying about. The issue with looking for stuff is we fixate on it and then tend to get very sensitive to minor things that are not a problem when we aren't looking for them to be.

As mentioned, the TJ front axle has cross caster. Cross caster is used to combat road crown to help the vehicle go straight on a road that has a rounded side to side cross section for drainage. It will be hard to find the perfectly crowned road to match the amount of cross caster and if that isn't done, there will be slight amounts of pull to either side. It is also really annoying when you get in places like SoCal where we have a lot of flat concrete freeways with drainage groove cut in them instead of a bit of crown. Cross caster pulls slightly on flat as well as differing amounts of crown.
 
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mrblaine said:
The issue with looking for stuff is we fixate on it and then tend to get very sensitive to minor things that are not a problem when we aren't looking for them to be.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely guilty here, and I know there's a good chance I'm fixating at this point.

I think the steering wheel was just ever so slightly off. I went back readjusted it, took it for a spin and it felt much better. I didn't realize that having it off center slightly could actually create the pull. I just thought that would be more of a visually annoying issue.
 
Ok I'm dealing with a pull to the right, and my toe in is perfect. When putting in cross caster to combat road crown, you do this only by adjusting slightly more caster on your drivers side upper control arm? Do you need to adjust the lower control arms at all?
 
Alex0413 said:
Ok I'm dealing with a pull to the right, and my toe in is perfect. When putting in cross caster to combat road crown, you do this only by adjusting slightly more caster on your drivers side upper control arm? Do you need to adjust the lower control arms at all?
Click to expand...
Cross caster is built into the inner C and how they are rotated relative to each other. It is not adjustable without changing the balljoints to adjustable versions.
 
mrblaine said:
Cross caster is built into the inner C and how they are rotated relative to each other. It is not adjustable without changing the balljoints to adjustable versions.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that, good to know! Do you see anything in my alignment that could cause a pull to the right? (and he did mess with my pinion angle when I specifically told him not to - so I have to change that again) I've rotated my tires to the other side, put new brake calipers in to eliminate possible drag, and my steering wheel is centered.
 

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Alex0413 said:
I didn't know that, good to know! Do you see anything in my alignment that could cause a pull to the right? (and he did mess with my pinion angle when I specifically told him not to - so I have to change that again) I've rotated my tires to the other side, put new brake calipers in to eliminate possible drag, and my steering wheel is centered.
Click to expand...
Steering wheel is perfectly centered?
 
You have .6 degrees difference in your camber from left to right. The vehicle will naturally pull to to the side with the least negative camber and the least positive caster. How bad is the pull? The only way to correct camber would be adjustable ball joints I believe. It begs the question why is there too much negative camber in the first place though. Hopefully not bent axle tube. 😳
 
And, a quick check is to swap the two front tires, see if it still pulls to the left or did it change with the tires.
 
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