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TJ radiator cross reference

TexasTJ2004

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No, panic would have been buying the one on eBay for 700. 450 is mild anxiety.

I just bought mine on Amazon for 450$.
I think that it worth it, as Mopar radiator, proper flush and maintenance (flush) will hold for 10 years w/o issue
 
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freedom_in_4low

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The reason I wouldn't use the copper and brass is they don't cool as well as the later ones as far as I can tell. IIRC, they are a less than stellar 2 row core which isn't as good as the later 1 row.

That's interesting to me. All else being equal, copper outperforms aluminum so all else must be really not equal for the opposite to be true. I've never laid eyes on one. It would be fun to do a comparison.
 

Ken G Ford

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So Ive been searching the Web for a 52080184AC MOPAR radiator for a 1997 4.0 Auto and everywhere says discontinued.

What are some of the other brands that cool as well as MOPAR radiators?
 

TexasTJ2004

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I have TJ 2004, automatic, and found today that the radiator is discontinued. So, based on MrBlaine’s advice I bought the 2005 one, which is lightly different (oil cooler connections), but works the same from all other perspectives.
 

TexasTJ2004

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So Ive been searching the Web for a 52080184AC MOPAR radiator for a 1997 4.0 Auto and everywhere says discontinued.

What are some of the other brands that cool as well as MOPAR radiators?

You might want to do something similar to what I did
 

mrblaine

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That's interesting to me. All else being equal, copper outperforms aluminum so all else must be really not equal for the opposite to be true. I've never laid eyes on one. It would be fun to do a comparison.
When it comes to thermal conductivity, yes, copper is far better than aluminum. That is only a tiny bit of the story though. What is exceptionally worse than copper and aluminum at conducting heat are lead and tin which is what the tubes are soldered into the headers with and what connects the rows of fins to the sides of the tubes. That thermal barrier is the Achilles heel of copper and brass heat exchangers historically. The reason aluminum works better is due to manufacturing practices in that the fins are aluminum brazed to the tubes.

They didn't move away from copper and brass for no good reason. But, new technologies may at some point bring copper and brass back. They have developed some much lower cost copper brazing techniques that jump those radiators way out in front of the standard aluminum in practically everything. The other challenges, weight and cost may get solved at some point. Until then, hard to beat aluminum overall.
 
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freedom_in_4low

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What is exceptionally worse than copper and aluminum at conducting heat are lead and tin which is what the tubes are soldered into the headers with and what connects the rows of fins to the sides of the tubes.

Ah, there it is indeed.

Our coils are round tubes that are mechanically joined to the fin by forcing a mandrel through it, expanding the tube into an interference fit.
 

mrblaine

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Ah, there it is indeed.

Our coils are round tubes that are mechanically joined to the fin by forcing a mandrel through it, expanding the tube into an interference fit.

The tech behind the switch to aluminum and core construction techniques has always been interesting to me. It is also nice to understand that in the same core depth, a full width single row tube set up is more efficient than a 2 row due to the interstice between the tubes front to back creating the net effect of less tube to fin contact all other things being equal. It took some manufacturing changes and advancements to bring aluminum up to where it could be used in a single row to get what we have now.

I've actually chatted with a few of the radiator companies and asked them why they sell 2 and 3 row radiators when a 1 row is far better in our application. Across the board the answer was that the customer thinks more rows are better so they are easier to sell.

Why not just educate the customer?
Too much work, easier to sell them a 2 or 3 row.
 

2001slvrstntj

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The tech behind the switch to aluminum and core construction techniques has always been interesting to me. It is also nice to understand that in the same core depth, a full width single row tube set up is more efficient than a 2 row due to the interstice between the tubes front to back creating the net effect of less tube to fin contact all other things being equal. It took some manufacturing changes and advancements to bring aluminum up to where it could be used in a single row to get what we have now.

I've actually chatted with a few of the radiator companies and asked them why they sell 2 and 3 row radiators when a 1 row is far better in our application. Across the board the answer was that the customer thinks more rows are better so they are easier to sell.

Why not just educate the customer?
Too much work, easier to sell them a 2 or 3 row.

Interesting, and not surprising. Easier to change than educate I am sure, also tough to educate someone that already thinks they know the deal.
 
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freedom_in_4low

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The tech behind the switch to aluminum and core construction techniques has always been interesting to me. It is also nice to understand that in the same core depth, a full width single row tube set up is more efficient than a 2 row due to the interstice between the tubes front to back creating the net effect of less tube to fin contact all other things being equal. It took some manufacturing changes and advancements to bring aluminum up to where it could be used in a single row to get what we have now.

I've actually chatted with a few of the radiator companies and asked them why they sell 2 and 3 row radiators when a 1 row is far better in our application. Across the board the answer was that the customer thinks more rows are better so they are easier to sell.

Why not just educate the customer?
Too much work, easier to sell them a 2 or 3 row.

Yeah, within the same core depth, more rows don't add anything because it's still a crossflow heat exchanger. You could probably squeeze some more out of it if you put a bulkhead down the length of the tank and let it make a pass down one row and then back up the other, but then your connections would have to both be in the upper tank. I'm not sure you could widen the tubes enough to get back to the same pressure drop, which would require a bigger water pump. A 3 row/3 pass would fix the connections but make the pressure drop even worse.

But yeah, splitting one row into more but leaving them in parallel does nothing but reduce fin contact area.
 
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freedom_in_4low

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Just not enough to buy one and toss it on the shelf, eh?

Since I still have the Mopar that rode out of the factory on my LJ, I think that's what I'm gonna do with mine. Maybe I'll swap it out when I'm due for new coolant in 2026 or if I have another reason to do it before then.

I'll be driving it up to Colorado in a few weeks which will give me an apples to apples comparison vs the way my 99 cooled with the AC on. I've been worried about mine running up to 223 but I think the extra load on my AC due to the humidity here is putting hotter air into my radiator and it may just not be realistic to hold under 210 in 100 ambient with 60% RH the way I did in CO with 5-10%. I also haven't been out to test since I insulated my 2-phase and return gas lines, which should help reduce the high side pressure and temperature.
 
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freedom_in_4low

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Right hand drive versions can be used but you will need to swap the mounting flanges from the existing radiator. I can get a better comparison when it is daylight but they move the radiator over for the RHD versions and that radiator is also known as the Middle East Option in the dealer computer system.

I'm really curious whether that radiator has additional cooling capacity to handle the desert heat over there. Or if it's just the same core with the brackets swapped.
 

Mike_H

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@freedom_in_4low and @mrblaine
When I had to put a new radiator in the motorhome, I had it recored with copper and brass. One of my driving factors was that I’ve heard not to mix aluminum rad with cast block (even though the TJ is exactly that). Is it a coolant additive package that knocks the galvanic corrosion down or is that theory like so many others in the internet, complete garbage?

The other two factors driving the decision is that the available griffin aluminum radiator is mondo expensive and I’m generally not a fan of aftermarket aluminum radiators. Maybe that particular griffin is OK, but I didn’t want to spring a leak 500 miles from home and not be able to “fix” it without replacement. There are still enough old radiator guys around that getting a core isn’t an issue (at least in my mind)
 

mrblaine

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@freedom_in_4low and @mrblaine
When I had to put a new radiator in the motorhome, I had it recored with copper and brass. One of my driving factors was that I’ve heard not to mix aluminum rad with cast block (even though the TJ is exactly that). Is it a coolant additive package that knocks the galvanic corrosion down or is that theory like so many others in the internet, complete garbage?

The other two factors driving the decision is that the available griffin aluminum radiator is mondo expensive and I’m generally not a fan of aftermarket aluminum radiators. Maybe that particular griffin is OK, but I didn’t want to spring a leak 500 miles from home and not be able to “fix” it without replacement. There are still enough old radiator guys around that getting a core isn’t an issue (at least in my mind)

What other types of engine blocks are there? Unless you meant cast iron? The problem with the internet is there are diamonds of truth in mountains of sand. It is pretty critical on the Ford diesel to keep the coolant up to snuff or you will start eroding something bad. Not sure if it is the radiator, the block or some other important bit and given my distaste for anything Ford, I suspect I don't recall because my brain is trying to purge anything related to Ford except not to buy one.

As long as your radiator does what it is supposed, it really doesn't matter.
 
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freedom_in_4low

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@freedom_in_4low and @mrblaine
When I had to put a new radiator in the motorhome, I had it recored with copper and brass. One of my driving factors was that I’ve heard not to mix aluminum rad with cast block (even though the TJ is exactly that). Is it a coolant additive package that knocks the galvanic corrosion down or is that theory like so many others in the internet, complete garbage?

Plenty out there with cast iron blocks and aluminum radiators. Aluminum being the least noble of any of the metals involved means it's the sacrificial metal in the system. Easier to replace a radiator than get the corrosion out of a block. But, yes, the additive package prevents corrosion.