TJ vs JK

[frustratedkoopa]

Hi Everyone,

Longtime lurker here, learned a tonne for a newb a few years back and put some good ideas to my '98 TJ 2.5L SE, great tips especially with what to do with the 4 bangers

I've had my TJ for a while and and having separation anxiety just thinking about selling it but at 170,000 miles, undercarriage rust (not terrible but its a lot), some super minor body bubble rust, and work that needs to be done (timing chain, muffler, tailpipe, front axle u-joints), i could drive it for a few years without issue.

UP here in Canada (PNW) finding a TJ sub 70000 miles without a tonne of issues has always been a challenge With 2 young kids, a new CRV for the Mrs is on the horizon so i can't just go buy a JL Sport S. I wanted to see what your opinion is about the JK 2009 Wranger X.

If interested, here is what i am checking out (currency converted works out to be about $11,000 without negotiations which of course will be done). I could post this inquiry on the JK forum but honestly 5 minutes on those threads and i might just keep my TJ so i can still be part of this community!

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rds/cto/d/langley-2009-jeep-wrangler-very-well/6845279845.html

Any feedback on the JK 2009 x is welcomed. Please don't link back "JKU unfortunatel thread of the day" LOL ..Sigh...

Cheers

 

[Chris]

DO NOT buy a 07-11 JK. I’ve driven them enough to know that that 3.8 minivan engine is an absolute turd. It’s unreliable, it burns oil, and they are riddled with issues.

The 2012+ models with the 3.6 are just so much better. I wouldn’t even consider a JK prior to 2012.

 

[frustratedkoopa]

Ya I’ve seen that advice on this forum a bunch but use of the word Do not buy and Turd together along with a minivan reference is the stamp in this thread.

Pouring more money back into the TJ to grab those extra years while I wait for the right TJ to come by up here.... appreciate the advice Chris

 

[AndyG]

07-11 JK ‘s have pitiful market value right now , so they look tempting . There’s a reason they are cheap, no one wants them and Jeep sold a ton.

I gave a nice family a ride home Saturday night that just had gotten one with 79,000 miles, it’s immobilization system shut it down.

Here’s the kicker...I google the issue...and WHOAA!!! I realized : WE DONT HAVE MANY PROBLEMS ON TJ’s.

“I complained about no shoes until I saw a man with no feet”

Granted , they sold more , but current jk sales totals are only double the 965,945 TJ’s sold , but the headaches seem five fold.

Primarily electrical.

There’s a lot of good about the jk/Jlu Jeeps, and they are more versatile than the TJ , tamer, more family friendly and roomy . It’s 13-16 models that seem more sought after now.

It’s kind of like the meme that shows a really pretty woman , and under it it says - somewhere , there is someone tired of her crap too.

The grass on either side still needs mowed.

 

[glwood]

I drove a 2011 JK Sport 6-speed a few years back when I was actually shopping for a JK. That thing was a complete dog, no acceleration at all. Next I drove a 2012 JK Sport auto. The 2012 was like a rocket ship by comparison. I ended up buying the 2012. There really is no comparison between the two engines.

 

[frustratedkoopa]

@AndyG, I’ve read past threads (on this site) where other owners mention the electrical problems. It’s tough cause I haven’t had any of the electrical problems...my headaches are limited to the future rusting and maintenance repairs I have to deal with. However keeping it mechanical means less of a headache maybe just pouring more money makes sense. Your right though. At $11k it’s super tempting especially since TJ are hard to come by.

@glwood I agree on acceleration but I have the 2.5L which is terrible as well on acceleration. Forget about the first gear, I’m usually starting the shift in gear 2 just to keep going. I’m shifting from 1 to 2 so quickly I don’t see the point..,

 

[AndyG]

@AndyG, I’ve read past threads (on this site) where other owners mention the electrical problems. It’s tough cause I haven’t had any of the electrical problems...my headaches are limited to the future rusting and maintenance repairs I have to deal with. However keeping it mechanical means less of a headache maybe just pouring more money makes sense. Your right though. At $11k it’s super tempting especially since TJ are hard to come by.

@glwood I agree on acceleration but I have the 2.5L which is terrible as well on acceleration. Forget about the first gear, I’m usually starting the shift in gear 2 just to keep going. I’m shifting from 1 to 2 so quickly I don’t see the point..,

I hate rust , and your TJ is getting tired. Pay more for a newer jk if you can and have to, just realize their electrical system is far more advanced...

TJ’s are like Apollo/Saturn Rockets, jks are the space shuttle

The space shuttle never made it to the moon and it killed more people.


Don’t rule out a better TJ, travel if needed.

 

[Mg2]

I had a 10 JK and going up the slightest hill and that Jeep slowed to a crawl. On the highway, hit same said hill and expect pissed drivers passing you giving you "the look" not understanding that you got the pedal on the floor. Got a 06 LJ now and that feels like a Porsche compared to the JK. I'd agree, after 12 the engines are way better. Wife had a Unlimited.

 

[Chris]

I drove a 2011 JK Sport 6-speed a few years back when I was actually shopping for a JK. That thing was a complete dog, no acceleration at all. Next I drove a 2012 JK Sport auto. The 2012 was like a rocket ship by comparison. I ended up buying the 2012. There really is no comparison between the two engines.

I can attest to this. I drove both back-to-back at a dealership several years ago, and the 2010 that I drove was a complete joke compared to the 2014, not even kidding. This echoes everything I read in the magazines (i.e. Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc.), where they absolutely heaped praise on the 2012 JK when it was released due to the much better engine / transmission combo.

The 3.6 Pentastar has almost 100 more horsepower than the 3.8, it's an aluminum head and block (where as the 3.8 is cast iron), and while it is known to have some minor issues, it's nothing like the oil burning and premature failures I've read about with the 3.8.

In addition, it's worth noting that the JK interior design improved vastly in 2011. Prior to 2011 the interior looked pretty awful if you ask me.

I am in no way against a nice 2-door JK (it's the 4-door ones I can't seem to like), but if you're going to get one I think you'll deeply regret getting a 2007-2011.

There is a reason you see the 2007-2011 models for so cheap on the used market. Most people who have done their research simply don't want them.

 

[frustratedkoopa]

Ya sounds like the consensus is against JK before 2012. Crazy how the 3.8 is such a terrible call by Jeep.

 

[Chris]

Ya sounds like the consensus is against JK before 2012. Crazy how the 3.8 is such a terrible call by Jeep.

My thought on this is that that Jeep still hadn't figured it out in 2007. The JK platform itself was an improvement over the TJ in many ways, but like any new generation of vehicle, they needed time to refine it, get feedback, etc. In 2011 they updated the interior to a much better looking interior, then in 2012 they added a much better engine and transmission (automatic transmission at least).

The 3.8 barely has much more horsepower than the 4.0. The engine feels sluggish and definitely lacking. Everyone I know who has owned a 3.8 has either had issues with it burning oil or other things, or they sold it for a 3.6 and never looked back. Having driven both the 3.8 and 3.6, it's absolutely night and day.

In most cases (not all, but most) the best years of a vehicle to buy are generally the last few years before the new generation. That's usually when most of the issues have either been sorted out, or are at least well known so that you can make an informed purchase.

The 3.8 just never had any place in a Jeep if you ask me, it's a horrid engine. About the only thing those earlier JKs are good for is engine swaps IMHO.

 

[Bird]

Wife and I rented a 2016 Wrangler with the 3.6 for a week while on vacation.......I was extremely impressed with the performance, wife didn't notice or even care.

 

[TJ2]

Talking with experience, 2013 upward is the better models. Performance-wise, it is better than the TJs. It is not simple to do maintenance though compared to my TJs. I despised the oem bumper and so I chopped them off. Here is mine now and it starts to grow on me.

 

[astjp2]

The older JK's are great candidates for LS/Hemi swaps...

 

[frustratedkoopa]

just sold my TJ...

Man it hurts. Will start the long and time consuming job of looking for a 4.0 TJ with no rust and low km....I think ill be regretting this

 

[glwood]

just sold my TJ...

Man it hurts. Will start the long and time consuming job of looking for a 4.0 TJ with no rust and low km....I think ill be regretting this

You'll find one. Do you north country folk have any issues with buying a US TJ and getting it into the country?

 

[Wildlifeguy]

Just my opinion as a newb on this forum; been following for the past year though. I wouldn't dismiss the first generation JK's based only on what you read on a forum. I read the same propagation of trash talk on several different posts. "unreliable minivan engine". What does that even mean? How does that make it inferior? I wonder if those on a minivan forum somewhere say hey, we have a wrangler engine in our vans, let's go rock crawling. I've had the opportunity to drive a few of the earlier JK's. The most recent, I had a 2007 JK unlimited for 3 months while I fixed up a few things to give it to a relative. I picked it up from my nephew who had it in college for several years and very much neglected maintenance. It had 115,000 miles on it and he was complaining of it overheating and that a mechanic quoted over $1000 to fix. I fixed the problem with a $75 new fan. It ran very smooth. If I hadn't read the odometer, I would have guessed it was near new. It handled and shifted (auto) great. Suspension was tight. I still like my TJ better, never have liked the look of the JK's. It really grew on me though, handled and rode better than my TJ. The engine revs high and has poor acceleration. However, I had no problem maintaining 75 mph on the highway. This one had 4.10 gears and small stock tires which may have helped. I have driven a couple with higher gearing and had no issues on the highway against a strong wind. Regarding reliability, based on my occasional perusing of JK forums, I seem to see more complaints about reliability issues with the stronger 3.6.

I really do not intend to insult any previous posters, I just wanted to give my opinion based on my experiences. My point is, don't dismiss based on forum posts. I suggest that if you see one you may like, go drive it with an open mind and make your own opinions. It may be fine for your needs. Once I drove that one daily for a little while, it changed my opinion on them. My biggest complaint is that (with all JK's actually) it really feels like I'm driving a car that looks like a jeep. My TJ is more fun.

 

[bromel]

The problem is with the oil burning. The 3.8s that were put in the early JKs are notorious for burning oil. We're talking more than a quart every 1,000 miles for an engine with under 90,000 miles in some cases. I believe it was crappy piston rings. I think I have it bad with my 2000 4.0 that may or may not crack a head one day, my friend's 08 JK is practically burning more oil than it is gasoline. The forums of course exaggerate problems, but this is one that is very much a real phenomenon.

I know too many horror stories of people buying a sweet-looking JK only to find the engine burns enormous amounts of oil. Just not worth the risk, IMO. Go with a 2012 or later.

 

[Drizit]

So before my LJ I used to own a 2010 jku. I did kill the motor up and have it replaced under warranty as it was burning 5L of oil per tank of gas (it just wanted to be a diesel so badly) however that's an outside case and may or may not have involved water ingestion. What I can tell you is I'm the only person I personally know who's done that, and I know a lot of 3.8L jk owners. Yes they burn oil, keep em topped up and it's fine. On the other hand I personally know 3 people who have hydrolocked and destroyed 3.6Ls by sitting the oil pan in water. I love the preformance of the 3.6 over the 3.8 but the 3.8 is probably more stout. As to electrical issues, it's like the Dodge rams. The BCM is out under the hood without enough waterproofing and collecting wheel spray. It's a crap design but at least you know where to start looking. Also if you plan on an automatic be aware the 5speed can't be used with an automatic rear locker, it'll go into limp mode.

As to the 3.8L jks, I'd try to get a 2010 and up, they changed a bunch of stuff in 2010 like the soft top design and fixed some leaking issues. In 2011 you get the new interior, so that's nice.

It's also not that had for us to bring in a nice rust free southern TJ...

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[AndyG]

We have a pretty well-rounded offroad shop here in town.. one-point the guy behind the counter is quick to make is there are a lot of 3.8 engines out in the market.

I drove one that had a few things done to it and it was actually pretty drivable in a 4-door with pretty big tires.

I don't have enough experience with either engine to be making big recommendations...but I'm pretty confident I would lean toward a 3.6 if I were buying either today.