Trail tire repair kit and Staun deflaters

This is too funny. Only on the internet would this depth of a discussion occur on a deflator.

Whatever deflator you use, just make sure you show up at the trailhead early and be ready to roll at scheduled departure. We have all been guilty of showing up at 9am for a 9oclock ride and tell everyone that we will be ready as soon as we; air down, take our doors off, grab a bag of ice, pack the cooler, hit the head, fix the broken part from last trip, and/or grow a set. We'll just run one trail while you get ready and meet you back at the parking lot.
 
We have all been guilty of showing up at 9am for a 9oclock ride and tell everyone that we will be ready as soon as we; air down, take our doors off, grab a bag of ice, pack the cooler, hit the head, unload the rig off the trailer, fix the broken part from last trip, and/or grow a set right after ya'll help me spool on this new winch line since I messed up the last one.
True story.
 
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This is too funny. Only on the internet would this depth of a discussion occur on a deflator.

Whatever deflator you use, just make sure you show up at the trailhead early and be ready to roll at scheduled departure. We have all been guilty of showing up at 9am for a 9oclock ride and tell everyone that we will be ready as soon as we; air down, take our doors off, grab a bag of ice, pack the cooler, hit the head, fix the broken part from last trip, and/or grow a set. We'll just run one trail while you get ready and meet you back at the parking lot.

Usually spend more time making sure everybody's radios are working than airing down.
 
@NashvilleTJ

Thanks for running that test.

I expected that it would take a bit longer to hit the target pressure with clip-on chucks attached to my Coyote deflators, and that was my impression when I used them, but I never timed the process. I've never been in enough of a hurry for it to matter. The purpose was convenience rather than speed.

I haven't had any issue with accuracy. I do not recall that the chucks changed the target cut-off pressure, only that the valves still closed at the same pressure consistently. Since it is my practice to check and equalize any differences in tire pressures a few minutes later regardless of the deflation tool, it hasn't been an issue. In any event, I think those versed in "best practices" would agree that recalibration should be expected when an appliance such as an automatic deflator is modified.

I can't believe that Chuck Mate is getting $30 for a set. I paid $20 or so and thought that was robbery. The cheaper option I linked earlier in this thread looks like the same product. They are also available from McMaster-Carr.

I will forward the link to your test to Harry Lewellyn at Coyote Enterprises. He will be interested. I spoke to him about the Chuck Mates before I ordered mine. He couldn't think of a reason not to use them with Coyote deflators and asked me to send him my impressions. I'll send him yours as well.

BTW, I have two sets of Coyote deflators - the original version without clip-on chucks that I keep in my Jeep and the new Vortex version with the Chuck Mates that I keep in my Sprinter, set for different pressures for the front and rear axles.

Well, I gotta relay this story. I found the Coyote web site and tried to order, but they were having site problems and had a note out there to call Jenna.

Jenna answers right away, and I tell her I would like to order a set of their deflators. "Have you used these before?" she asks, and I tell her I've had a set of Stauns forever and had been very happy - but lost one. Jenns tells me that Coyote was previously the largest importer of the Staun stuff, but had a bit of a falling out a few years ago which prompted them to develop their own deflator.

I respond, "Really, that's interesting. What improvements did you make over the Staun design?"

Jenna pauses for a moment, and then responds, "I'm not the best person to tell you that - but let me get Harry."

Harry gets on the phone and spends the next 20 minutes or so talking to me about the changes he made to the design, his thought process in doing so, and how it all came together to make a better product. He seems like a wonderful person, and I enjoyed the discussion immensely.

Harry tells me that with each order they include two sets of springs to match the psi ranges of two or three different SKU's from Staun. He asks how I use the Stauns. I give him my story about dropping to 10, go lower as needed, etc., and he says "Tell you what I'm gonna do. I'll also include a third set of silver springs that have a different psi range than those included, which I think will work better for the way you use the deflators."

You can't beat that kind of service.
 
Harry gets on the phone and spends the next 20 minutes or so talking to me about the changes he made to the design, his thought process in doing so, and how it all came together to make a better product. He seems like a wonderful person, and I enjoyed the discussion immensely.
I have the same experience and impression of the guy after talking to him for a bit a few years ago at the Off-Road Expo in Pomona.
 
Well, I gotta relay this story. I found the Coyote web site and tried to order, but they were having site problems and had a note out there to call Jenna.

Jenna answers right away, and I tell her I would like to order a set of their deflators. "Have you used these before?" she asks, and I tell her I've had a set of Stauns forever and had been very happy - but lost one. Jenns tells me that Coyote was previously the largest importer of the Staun stuff, but had a bit of a falling out a few years ago which prompted them to develop their own deflator.

I respond, "Really, that's interesting. What improvements did you make over the Staun design?"

Jenna pauses for a moment, and then responds, "I'm not the best person to tell you that - but let me get Harry."

Harry gets on the phone and spends the next 20 minutes or so talking to me about the changes he made to the design, his thought process in doing so, and how it all came together to make a better product. He seems like a wonderful person, and I enjoyed the discussion immensely.

Harry tells me that with each order they include two sets of springs to match the psi ranges of two or three different SKU's from Staun. He asks how I use the Stauns. I give him my story about dropping to 10, go lower as needed, etc., and he says "Tell you what I'm gonna do. I'll also include a third set of silver springs that have a different psi range than those included, which I think will work better for the way you use the deflators."

You can't beat that kind of service.

Which is exactly why he and I have remained friends for the last 25 years.
 
Harry gets on the phone and spends the next 20 minutes or so talking to me about the changes he made to the design, his thought process in doing so, and how it all came together to make a better product. He seems like a wonderful person, and I enjoyed the discussion immensely.

I have the same experience and impression of the guy after talking to him for a bit a few years ago at the Off-Road Expo in Pomona.

Experiences like these are why I have consistently recommended Harry and Coyote Enterprises.


Which is exactly why he and I have remained friends for the last 25 years.
 
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Last week I received the Coyote deflators, and today I unpacked them to calibrate and try 'em out. Here they are - recall that Harry also sent me an extra set of softer (silver) springs to try out.

IMG_7410.JPG


First order of business was to swap the springs. Pull the clip, swap the spring, and reinstall the clip. Easy peasy.

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This is the setup I use to calibrate my deflators. It works well as I can watch the pressure change in real time, and also observe when the deflator starts and stops. A simple twist on the deflator cap easily sets the pressure.

IMG_7413.JPG


The first deflator I did went well, and after a little tweaking was deflating consistently to 10 psi + or - a half pound or so.

IMG_7414.JPG


But the second deflator gave me trouble right off the bat. With the tank at 25, the deflator would not start. Pulling the pin also did nothing - even when unscrewing the cap nearly all the way (which would be the lowest possible pressure setting). I tried a third deflator. It did start to deflate at 25, but lower than about 20 psi it would not start - again, even when pulling the pin. It also did not stop - it went all the way to zero. I tried this several times varying the cap pressure setting to both extremes with the same result.

So I pulled it apart to see if I could understand what was happening. The Coyote design employs a piston with an O-ring (center, below) to regulate the air flow. The piston slides back and forth in the cylinder (on the right in the picture below), and when the spring exerts enough pressure on the piston it presses a rubber seal (on top of the piston, not visible in this picture) against an orifice at the top of the cylinder, stopping the air flow. When there is enough air pressure against the piston (i.e. - when the pressure in the tire exceeds the pressure setting of the deflator), the piston slides back and allows air to vent through the orifice and out of three holes at the center of the cylinder.

IMG_7420.JPG


The problem seems to be that the cylinder and o-ring is too tight in the bore to allow the piston to move back and forth freely, meaning it will not start deflating unless there is very high pressure (something over 25), and if it does begin deflating and gets down close to the desired air pressure the spring pressure is not sufficient to move the piston back into the closed position - and it deflates to zero.

Here is the piston in the cylinder: The pin with the spring presses against the divot at the top of the cylinder, pressing it against the orifice as stated above. But notice that the pin does not connect to the piston, so when you pull the pin to start the deflation, all it does it remove pressure from the piston. If the piston does not move, pulling the pin does nothing (hence the reason pulling the pin failed to start the deflation).


IMG_7418.JPG


And here is the impact of all of this: Notice in the picture below that I have completely removed the cap, pin and spring, so there is nothing creating pressure against, or containing, the piston. And even with 23.6 psi in the tank, it is not enough to move the piston to allow the deflation to start. When I shot a bunch of pressure at it, the piston does shoot out of the cylinder into my hand.

IMG_7417.JPG


I tried cleaning the cylinder and the piston, and well as lubricating the O-ring with light silicone O-ring lube. No change in the operation. I also reinstalled the original springs with the same result.

Contrast the design of the Staun's in the picture below. The O-ring at the end of the pin creates the seal when pressure is applied by the spring. Since the piston and the pin are one piece, pulling the pin always starts the deflation. Also, the pin/piston are not a tight fit in the cylinder bore (as is the case with the Coyote), and movement is constrained only by opposing spring and air pressure. The Coyotes also have to overcome the friction pressure of the O-ring on the piston - and I believe this is what is causing the problem.


IMG_7421.JPG


So what am I missing here? I'll give Harry a call on Monday to get his thoughts. Perhaps I received a bad set with an improperly sized O-rings, or bad machining of the piston or the cylinder? No sure. All I know at this point is these do not work predictably at all.

As I sit here typing this, it occurs to me that I may try removing the O-ring from the piston and see what happens. This O-ring does not create a necessary seal - as the air flow is controlled entirely by the seal on top of the piston engaging with the orifice - but it definitely constrains the movement of the piston in the cylinder.

I'm disappointed thus far, but perhaps it is something simple.
 
I just ordered a set of 4 off Temu for $8.68. I will do the same test and report back.

Arrived today. They appear to be built similar to the Stauns from Nashville’s post above. I set them to 12lbs, but the valve is a little “tricky.” It can get stuck, but seems to only stick closed whenever it does. At least that’s what it did in my limited number or trials.

Set it to 12 then tested it on another tire. Was within 1 lb, so take what you will from that. It’s what eight bucks gets you. I can’t rule out that I didn’t slightly turn the set screw as I was tightening it down. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It stopped initially at 15lbs, then I sort of flicked it and it started flowing again and stopped at what you see below. I flicked it again several times to see if it would restart, but it seemed to be pretty satisfied that it was at the target pressure.

Going wheeling next week if in Hot Springs so we’ll see how they work under duress.

DA85770F-D27D-4D74-A615-F59411176E14.jpeg


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66C54E05-309D-4B88-B6B9-B61F9E3D952C.jpeg
 
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Be very careful with Temu's app, I personally wouldn't use it. It's a pure Chinese company and I have read several reports that it tracks you and all purchases made on your phone plus it apparently finds and uploads your personal information.
 
... so we’ll see how they work under duress.
Cant say I have ever aired down in a situation where one person makes unlawful threats or otherwise engages in coercive behavior that causes another person to commit acts that they would otherwise not commit 😬
 
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Cant say I have ever aired down in a situation where one person makes unlawful threats or otherwise engages in coercive behavior that causes another person to commit acts that they would otherwise not commit 😬

I can see you've never wheeled in Oklahoma.
 
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Be very careful with Temu's app, I personally wouldn't use it. It's a pure Chinese company and I have read several reports that it tracks you and all purchases made on your phone plus it apparently finds and uploads your personal information.

Their free drone offer seems legit. You control it with your phone.

No concerns there 😃
 
Be very careful with Temu's app, I personally wouldn't use it. It's a pure Chinese company and I have read several reports that it tracks you and all purchases made on your phone plus it apparently finds and uploads your personal information.

oh yeah, that thing has malware written all over it. I have a burner phone with minimal info on it, although it was hard to purchase w/o it having my cc info.
 
I can see you've never wheeled in Oklahoma.

Im from OK homie 😃

If just airing down requires that level of duress shenanigans, I would just use stick on the schrader and keep an eye on the persons around you 😃
 
On my theory that the O-ring on the piston was causing it to bind, I pulled that O-ring and gave it a shot. Sure enough, the Coyote's work perfectly now.

In this picture you can also see the sealing surface on top of the piston, which is what controls the airflow - not the O-ring on the piston.

IMG_7496.JPG


Set to 10psi, it was consistently dropping to within .3 psi with none of the strange behavior it was exhibiting with the O-ring.

IMG_7424.JPG


On my 40's, they dropped from 25 psi to 10 psi in about 6 and a half minutes - about 2 minutes faster than the Stauns. It makes sense in that the Coyote's have three exhaust holes compared to the Staun's one - and the holes are also a bit larger.


IMG_7493.PNG


For the life of me I can't figure out the purpose of that O-ring. Anyone have any idea?
 
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On my theory that the O-ring on the piston was causing it to bind, I pulled that O-ring and gave it a shot. Sure enough, the Coyote's work perfectly now.

In this picture you can also see the sealing surface on top of the piston, which is what controls the airflow - not the O-ring on the piston.

View attachment 458374

Set to 10psi, it was consistently dropping to within .3 psi with none of the strange behavior it was exhibiting with the O-ring.

View attachment 458375

On my 40's, they dropped from 25 psi to 10 psi in about 6 and a half minutes - about 2 minutes faster than the Stauns. It makes sense in that the Coyote's have three exhaust holes compared to the Staun's one - and the holes are also a bit larger.


View attachment 458376

For the life of me I can't figure out the purpose of that O-ring. Anyone have any idea?

You're giving me hope. Reading about all the problems folks are having with deflaters I kind of decided to just do it manually, but I'll wait a bit and see how the Coyotes work for you. What lube did you use?
On the Jeep it's not too much time to air down but on my Superduty it can be a real pain.
 
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A few final thoughts...

I spent some time dialing in the final settings on the Coyotes. After I set them all to consistently hitting 10 psi on the test rig, I discovered that they were consistently hitting 8.5 on the tires. The Stauns did not do this, as they were spot on either way. I have no idea why this is happening, but there is something different between the two deflators. Rather than dwell on the issue, I reset of the Coyote's to 11.5 on the test rig, and then they all consistently hit 10 on the tires. Strange, but they work pretty consistently across all four of the Coyotes.

IMG_7505.JPG


Also, I retimed the deflation dropping from 25 down to (actually) 10, and this was the result. A bit over three minutes faster than the Stauns.

IMG_7504.PNG


One final thing comparing the two is that the Stauns are much easier and more comfortable to install on the valve stem. The Coyotes have a hex shaped body and a hex jam nut. This, coupled with the ring attached to the pin make it more difficult and a little uncomfortable to spin onto the vale stem. The Stauns are round, with a round, knurled jam nut, and as a result are overall easier to handle. Not a big deal of course, but something.

My overall conclusion at this point is that given the struggles I've had with the Coyotes, I prefer the Stauns. The only positive I've seen with the Coyotes is that they are much faster - and that's important.

But the Coyotes are dialed in at this point, so I'll give them a longer-term test to see how well they remain consistently accurate.