Tunable Shock Options for Factory Mounts?

[Arthurius]

What are some options for shocks for our TJ's that are tunable and rebuildable? I have long lusted over these King Shocks due to King Shocks great reputation in the offroad race community but the price is prohibitive. Are there any alternative options that can be fully rebuilt and tuned by a qualified tech? Fox?

King shocks in question
https://www.quadratec.com/products/...m_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organicshopping

 

[Chris]

Are we talking about shocks for outboard mounts or shocks that fit in the factory mounts?

 

[jjvw]

The ones he linked to are bolt-on top post shocks for the front.

 

[Chris]

The ones he linked to are bolt-on top post shocks for the front.

I didn't even see the link. I need to bring back the underlined links. That was much more helpful.

 

[jjvw]

I didn't even see the link. I need to bring back the underlined links. That was much more helpful.

You also need to bring back my post!

 

[Chris]

You also need to bring back my post!

I did. Not sure what the hell is going on. I saw you posted the same thing twice, deleted one, and somehow it deleted both.

 

[Chris]

FWIW OP, I wouldn't be spending that sort of money on shocks unless I was going with an outboard setup.

That's not to say you wouldn't benefit from tuned shocks at all. It is to say however that with shocks that fit in the factory locations you're going to be severely limited.

I can't stress how much an outboard conversion is worth it. We are talking a night and day difference in the handling and performance of your TJ. My TJ went from driving like a TJ to driving more like a sports car.

That sounds a lot like an exaggeration, but I promise you, it's not.

 

[jjvw]

FWIW OP, I wouldn't be spending that sort of money on shocks unless I was going with an outboard setup.

That's not to say you wouldn't benefit from tuned shocks at all. It is to say however that with shocks that fit in the factory locations you're going to be severely limited.

I can't stress how much an outboard conversion is worth it. We are talking a night and day difference in the handling and performance of your TJ. My TJ went from driving like a TJ to driving more like a sports car.

That sounds a lot like an exaggeration, but I promise you, it's not.

You were barely scratching the surface of what good shocks can do. But you are not exaggerating one bit.

 

[Chris]

You were barely scratching the surface of what good shocks can do. But you are not exaggerating one bit.

I'm a believer, that's for sure.

It changed my entire perspective on just how important it is to have good, properly tuned shocks.

I'm just not certain that can be fully achieved with the stock shock mounts.

 

[jjvw]

I'm a believer, that's for sure.

It changed my entire perspective on just how important it is to have good, properly tuned shocks.

I'm just not certain that can be fully achieved with the stock shock mounts.

Largely by virtue of a lack of options for the factory mounts, followed by the issue of rear shock travel from the rear mounts.

The King 2.5 he posted is too much piston diameter for the weight of the TJ. This is a reason why the smaller Fox 2.0 with resevoirs became the go to good shock for outboard mounts. They can be made to work well with good tuning, despite being a bit undersized. However, the newish Fox DSC reservoirs have completely changed what the Fox 2.0 can do for us.

These have been as good, if not better than anything else I have done to the Jeep.

 

[ChadH]

FWIW OP, I wouldn't be spending that sort of money on shocks unless I was going with an outboard setup.

That's not to say you wouldn't benefit from tuned shocks at all. It is to say however that with shocks that fit in the factory locations you're going to be severely limited.

I can't stress how much an outboard conversion is worth it. We are talking a night and day difference in the handling and performance of your TJ. My TJ went from driving like a TJ to driving more like a sports car.

That sounds a lot like an exaggeration, but I promise you, it's not.

I think some context is needed here too though. I get the impression that most folks on this forum are into pretty hard core rock crawling and rough trails. That may or may not be in line with what the OP is looking for. Cost is also a harsh reality, as well as if a person has the ability to fabricate or not, or if they have a shop near by that can do it or not can also be a significant limiting factor. I guess a question might be then at what point are outboard shocks worth it vs not. Thinking in terms of regular weekend rock crawling, vs typical adventuring, vs just a grocery getter. I suppose you could go to the max on everything for a grocery getter but is it really worth it....

This is just something I see consistently ignored on every forum I have been on. Assessing individual use case and desire and budget is pretty important.

 

[Chris]

Largely by virtue of a lack of options for the factory mounts, followed by the issue of rear shock travel from the rear mounts.

The King 2.5 he posted is too much piston diameter for the weight of the TJ. This is a reason why the smaller Fox 2.0 with resevoirs became the go to good shock for outboard mounts. They can be made to work well with good tuning, despite being a bit undersized. However, the newish Fox DSC reservoirs have completely changed what the Fox 2.0 can do for us.
View attachment 548644
View attachment 548642

These have been as good, if not better than anything else I have done to the Jeep.
View attachment 548648

I've heard that about the new DSC shocks. Hard to imagine it could be any better, but I believe it.

Interesting to know that about the piston diameter. That I did not know, but it makes perfect sense.

It's unfortunate that there are not more outboard conversions out there, but I know firsthand why that is.

You either learn to do it yourself and take the time to do it right, or you take it to someone who knows how to do it right (and the only person I know of that does that for a living is Blaine).

Otherwise you make the mistake I made the first time and end up taking to a shop that claims they know how to do it right only to end up screwing the whole thing up.

 

[Chris]

I think some context is needed here too though. I get the impression that most folks on this forum are into pretty hard core rock crawling and rough trails. That may or may not be in line with what the OP is looking for. Cost is also a harsh reality, as well as if a person has the ability to fabricate or not, or if they have a shop near by that can do it or not can also be a significant limiting factor. I guess a question might be then at what point are outboard shocks worth it vs not. Thinking in terms of regular weekend rock crawling, vs typical adventuring, vs just a grocery getter. I suppose you could go to the max on everything for a grocery getter but is it really worth it....

This is just something I see consistently ignored on every forum I have been on. Assessing individual use case and desire and budget is pretty important.

If we're being honest, you'll benefit from an outboard shock conversion (and properly tuned shocks) just as much on-road as you will off-road. That isn't an exaggeration. When I say it will completely transform the way your TJ drives, I mean that both on-road and off-road.

Knowing what I know now, even if I never intended to take my TJ off-road and it would only ever see the pavement, I would still drop the big bucks for an outboard shock conversion. It really is astounding how much of a difference it makes. My TJ felt like someone injected sports car handling into it. You could throw it into corners and you never felt that dreaded, "oh crap, it might roll" feeling.

When you slam on the brakes, it didn't nose dive. You could fly over washboard roads and barely feel a think. You could take corners at full throttle. I remember taking some of those massive Arizona highway on-ramps (the kind they have on the loop 202) at 80 MPH and I didn't even have to slow down. I could be full throttle into those corners at 80 MPH and the thing as just planted as hell.

I know it sounds like I'm exaggerating, but I promise you I'm not. It really turns the TJ into an entirely different vehicle, especially on-road.

Believe me when I say that until you experience a properly setup TJ with outboard mounts and properly tuned shocks (a SwayLOC too ideally), you have no idea what you're missing.

 

[jjvw]

I think some context is needed here too though. I get the impression that most folks on this forum are into pretty hard core rock crawling and rough trails. That may or may not be in line with what the OP is looking for. Cost is also a harsh reality, as well as if a person has the ability to fabricate or not, or if they have a shop near by that can do it or not can also be a significant limiting factor. I guess a question might be then at what point are outboard shocks worth it vs not. Thinking in terms of regular weekend rock crawling, vs typical adventuring, vs just a grocery getter. I suppose you could go to the max on everything for a grocery getter but is it really worth it....

This is just something I see consistently ignored on every forum I have been on. Assessing individual use case and desire and budget is pretty important.

Having gone far down this road my thoughts are that if you enjoy driving simply for the joy of driving and appreciate a very well handing vehicle, something in the direction of where mine has ended up is highly desirable. Even for tearing around town and racing down rough dirt roads. A vehicle like this should not drive this good, which only adds to the fun.

 

[Arthurius]

I should rephrase my question to "Are there any fully rebuildable and tunable shocks that fit the factory mounts?"

The only I know of are the Kings I linked to which are very expensive for a full set. I've seen them in person on an LJ, which also had an outboard. I test drove this Jeep and it rode very very good, but i decided against buying it like a dumbass.

I am currently compiling a parts list for a lift and comparing it to available kits. Shocks came up and thus the thread started. Does Fox make a less expensive, factory shock that can be tuned? I have Black Max now and before that had Rancho 5000x, and I still want a little more tuning ability. Plus the ability to rebuild them sounds tits. Is this doable without major modification?

By the way, heres the Jeep I saw for sale years ago, out in Redlands, CA if I recall. Maybe @mrblaine knows of this guy, it's his neck of the woods!

 

[Sudo]

I would still drop the big bucks for an outboard shock conversion. It really is astounding how much of a difference it makes.

For someone, like me, who has been interested in having the outboard done. What kind of ballpark "big bucks" to have a shop do an outboard with tuned shocks?

 

[Chris]

For someone, like me, who has been interested in having the outboard done. What kind of ballpark "big bucks" to have a shop do an outboard with tuned shocks?

I am sure prices are a lot higher now, but I would guess if you were paying a reputable shop you'd be looking at around $7000-$8500 for parts and labor.

I think it's easily the best mod you could do to a TJ.

I'd insist on a SwayLOC as well. It's far superior to the AntiRock.

 

[ChadH]

Having gone far down this road my thoughts are that if you enjoy driving simply for the joy of driving and appreciate a very well handing vehicle, something in the direction of where mine has ended up is highly desirable. Even for tearing around town and racing down rough dirt roads. A vehicle like this should not drive this good, which only adds to the fun.

I dont doubt this. But not everybody has the money, the time, the fabrication skills, the tools, the place to do fab work, or even a shop to do it for them and hoping that shop does it right. Use case and details are critical. I could say all day long that everybody should have their own jet and helicopter. Does that make it right for every situation, or even attainable? No. So you only commute 30 miles to work every day? Go buy a helicopter, it will be totally worth it 100000%

I really don't understand why on every forum everybody always pushes to the max all the time. Not everybody wants that. Not everybody can afford it, or the time to get there. It's a fact of life. And to ignore what someone is trying to get that is within their means really doesnt' help them. It's not to say that the information isn't valid. This forum and others are completely underestimated int he amount of knowledge and help that is available if a person only searches and spends time reading. But like the real estate agent that tries to upsell you to a 8 bedroom 3 million dollar home when your a newlywed couple who doesnt even have a kid yet....

I have personally experienced this myself a lot. And it is frustrating and down right irritating when details like that are ignored. I will put myself in this situation, not to hijack, but to show. I do not want outboard shocks. I can't afford it. I can't fabricate it. Unless someone on this forum will do it for me, for free, I flat out dont want it. Aside from the lack of money, or fabrication abilities, or tools, or location, or any of that. I also have experienced first hand a breakdown in a very very very remote place of the US. A country that supposedly has everything. And guess what. I was left utterly stranded because nobody within 200 miles had nor knew how to repair custom equipment. Heck I was even left stranded by all the major 'road side assistance' companies only 50 miles outside of Seattle for a double flat!! I can't imagine what would happen if a guy needed a tow 200 miles from a major town and 50 miles from the nearest cell reception area. That's a recipe for a really bad situation especially for those traveling solo.

But if someone here wants to go ahead and pay for outboard shocks, do all the fab work, and promise nothing will ever break in a place where getting a tow is several thousand dollars, then well that would just be awesome.

Does Fox make a less expensive, factory shock that can be tuned?

I just spoke with them about this a few weeks ago as I have their older 2.0's with reservoirs, well overdue for a rebuild. Those are the 'lowest' quality shock that accutune says they can or will tune. The monotone shocks are not tunable according to them. Maybe someone out there can, but it's probably expensive. From what I have gathered with the vast experience here is that fox shocks, unless custom tuned, are a pretty harsh ride, and my TJ rides rough although I think there are other issues also at play.

 

[jjvw]

I dont doubt this. But not everybody has the money, the time, the fabrication skills, the tools, the place to do fab work, or even a shop to do it for them and hoping that shop does it right. Use case and details are critical. I could say all day long that everybody should have their own jet and helicopter. Does that make it right for every situation, or even attainable? No. So you only commute 30 miles to work every day? Go buy a helicopter, it will be totally worth it 100000%

I really don't understand why on every forum everybody always pushes to the max all the time. Not everybody wants that. Not everybody can afford it, or the time to get there. It's a fact of life. And to ignore what someone is trying to get that is within their means really doesnt' help them. It's not to say that the information isn't valid. This forum and others are completely underestimated int he amount of knowledge and help that is available if a person only searches and spends time reading. But like the real estate agent that tries to upsell you to a 8 bedroom 3 million dollar home when your a newlywed couple who doesnt even have a kid yet....

I have personally experienced this myself a lot. And it is frustrating and down right irritating when details like that are ignored. I will put myself in this situation, not to hijack, but to show. I do not want outboard shocks. I can't afford it. I can't fabricate it. Unless someone on this forum will do it for me, for free, I flat out dont want it. Aside from the lack of money, or fabrication abilities, or tools, or location, or any of that. I also have experienced first hand a breakdown in a very very very remote place of the US. A country that supposedly has everything. And guess what. I was left utterly stranded because nobody within 200 miles had nor knew how to repair custom equipment. Heck I was even left stranded by all the major 'road side assistance' companies only 50 miles outside of Seattle for a double flat!! I can't imagine what would happen if a guy needed a tow 200 miles from a major town and 50 miles from the nearest cell reception area. That's a recipe for a really bad situation especially for those traveling solo.

But if someone here wants to go ahead and pay for outboard shocks, do all the fab work, and promise nothing will ever break in a place where getting a tow is several thousand dollars, then well that would just be awesome.

...

I stopped reading halfway through. You are entirely missing the point so that you can make excuses for not making any effort to try and learn to do a little better than you thought you knew you could before. Why even try?

 

[mrblaine]

I think some context is needed here too though. I get the impression that most folks on this forum are into pretty hard core rock crawling and rough trails. That may or may not be in line with what the OP is looking for. Cost is also a harsh reality, as well as if a person has the ability to fabricate or not, or if they have a shop near by that can do it or not can also be a significant limiting factor. I guess a question might be then at what point are outboard shocks worth it vs not. Thinking in terms of regular weekend rock crawling, vs typical adventuring, vs just a grocery getter. I suppose you could go to the max on everything for a grocery getter but is it really worth it....

This is just something I see consistently ignored on every forum I have been on. Assessing individual use case and desire and budget is pretty important.

No context required. Well tuned shocks are never not worth it. There is no other single modification that has as much tranformative value to improve everything you may enjoy about driving a TJ on or offroad. Whether or not you want to justify that, doesn't change the context, just your personal value system.

I am building a very special rig right now. To label it a grocery getter would be an understatement and I have the Foxes with DSC reservoirs ready for outboarding.