Mine arrived today. Thank you so much LJGreg! These look and feel amazing. I will hopefully install over the weekend and snap some more pics.
Upgrading the sound system on your Jeep Wrangler TJ
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
Mine arrived today. Thank you so much LJGreg! These look and feel amazing. I will hopefully install over the weekend and snap some more pics.
You will not. I currently have nothing in that space and it has been fine. This is just reassuring, and reducing the chance of a vibration. I previously stuck rubber weather stripping in that slot if you choose to do so.
@Rooscooter or @Ocho - did you use any mounting rings when you installed your BLAMs?
I'll report back how these work out, but they look awesome.
I cut and stacked some foam flooring insulation to fill the gap which created a nice seal around the speakers, while reducing possible vibrations and got grilles from amazon for them since they mount to the surface. I also added dynamat to the inside of the pods and fabbed up a holder for the crossover, with a light amount of poly fill.. they sound bitchin!
Unspokenfor
New Member
Thanks for uploading the files (although looks like there is an issue with the tweeter mount upload).
It sounds like the Blams may be the way to go then. Although I may pass on the signature series ones and go relax... I can see why they must sound better than the polks at that price lol.
Now to pick out a headunit.
I read through some of this thread, but not all of it, so likely some of my musings may have been addressed and I apologize for that. I am not in a huge hurry, but I haven't been impressed with my system at all since its installation. Is it better than stock? Yeah of course but that was an extremely low bar. Problem is it isn't nearly enough better than stock sans the bass upgrade.
My setup:
Alpine CDE-HD149BT [in general I like this headunit except for the i-pod controls which suck if you have a large collection like I do. I also use an old ipod 80gb as my main source]
Alpine MRX-V70 5 channel amp which I installed up under the steering column thanks to this forum...took some work, but got it done
Polk Audio db5251 meh! I am very underwhelmed, seriously lacking a natural midrange, specifically somewhere in the most critical vocal region something is seriously off. The tonal balance is really off, but some part of it is definitely the stock locations create a LP filter, and I used "I forget the name but mounts for the tweeters down low" which was against my intuition and turns out to be an utter fail. These are in Select Increments Dash Pods btw, with a little polywool.
Polk Audio db651s These I put in the sound bar and they are pretty good for that as far as I can tell, but I need to turn the balance way down unless I just want a wall of sound or hear the one closest to my head mostly. Still I feel with only those running the midrange is still off. I really want to see some good 3rd party measurements of these speakers, I think they won't look that good.
Alpine SWS-10D2 I modeled this sub many times in various applications and I knew it was going to do the job. The nice thing about bass is the wavelengths are such you can use models and they are dead on. No need to guess, no need for hyperbole, the models tell all.
Box started out as a Sound Ordinance BB1075V which is bang on for car bass IMO, but it won't fit behind the TJ's rear seat, which I wasn't using when I bought it. I recently ordered another type of dual 10" box off ebay, which I don't really like for usage reasons (it rubs against the rear door/window and squeaks nonstop), but it works for fit and the bass is decent if not as low (again the model shows that).
[tangent about where I am coming from]
FWIW, I am not a bass head, more of a metal head of late, but I don't use metal to test a system (maybe Porcupine Tree, Meshuggah or Opeth). My background is in applied math and I am a former [re-formed] audiophile. I spent years studying sound reproduction, acoustics, speaker design, amp building and visited some top industry folks' homes. I don't claim to have golden ears at all, but listening is a discipline that requires training. Once trained it is hard to ignore things that are glaring to you.
I don't really focus on soundstage/imaging, as that is a more of a listening illusion of sorts and pretty tall order for a car where you are seated too close to the front speakers and way too far off center, but I want tonal balance to replicate what is suppose to be, that is my primary concern. When discs I listen to all the time on 3 or 4 other systems including headphones sound pretty similar and the Jeep's system sounds vastly different, that is a tell tale sign. For reference I am using JBL M2s in my home, which is also what is used in most of the mixing studios that I personally visited.
[/end tangent]
I am not dissing the Polks, but I am not really impressed either. I thought they were going to be a big upgrade AFAIC they really weren't much. A little clearer (aka less distortion), a little louder, maybe a bit more midbass but the midrange still sucks IMO. It just isn't clear and neutral sounding. Hard to put in words what one hears so another person can relate. I think there are at least 3 things holding this back in my 'guesstimation':
1) the tweeter down low just simply does not work. I can't even see more than a third of either of the tweeter in the driver's position, which means all the HFs are refracted. That is a *HUGE* no-no in all things hi-fi, as this is the presence region where we pick up all on spatial cues. I get the creator of these door hinge brackets thought they were cleverly getting past the fact that one is way too close while the other is far so putting them low levels the distance some, but this created at least 4 more problems than it fixed.
This is first on the list to get corrected. I have been browsing for tweeter pods, and just saw a couple pages back some reasonably priced ones on ebay, thanks for that.
2) the stock front speaker position is simply not good for upper midrange. The volume of space in front of the speaker combined with the small area of the slots versus the area of the cone creates a mathematically predictable low pass filter and almost certainly what is putting my ear hairs on edge. I posit this is a relatively big acoustic issue created worse by those of use who are 'upgrading' to 5" speaker in the stock place, which is increases the compression between the slot area and the woofer area.
I've even kicked around putting a 3" and tweeter on top of the dash in a pod, ala Versa pod as a way to circumvent the issue, which is probably would. If your amp has a HPF like mine then you can put another lower mid 5" in the stock spot to help them out.
3) I think in general car speakers are overpriced versus their competition in other circles. I think audiophile speaker drivers are as well, but pro-audio drivers if you know how to make crossovers (I do a bit) as hugely more cost effective. When it comes to a 3" driver the Faital Pro 3FE22 is on my radar. Seems the ticket.
Anyway, I am not in a hurry to solve anything, but thought I'd toss quite a bit of things into the discussion. And for the record, I am not trying to diss anyone's pride and joy and all that, just that I think it can go quite a bit further without much more if we take the time to think it through.
** I use my hardtop year-round.
My setup:
Alpine CDE-HD149BT [in general I like this headunit except for the i-pod controls which suck if you have a large collection like I do. I also use an old ipod 80gb as my main source]
Alpine MRX-V70 5 channel amp which I installed up under the steering column thanks to this forum...took some work, but got it done
Polk Audio db5251 meh! I am very underwhelmed, seriously lacking a natural midrange, specifically somewhere in the most critical vocal region something is seriously off. The tonal balance is really off, but some part of it is definitely the stock locations create a LP filter, and I used "I forget the name but mounts for the tweeters down low" which was against my intuition and turns out to be an utter fail. These are in Select Increments Dash Pods btw, with a little polywool.
Polk Audio db651s These I put in the sound bar and they are pretty good for that as far as I can tell, but I need to turn the balance way down unless I just want a wall of sound or hear the one closest to my head mostly. Still I feel with only those running the midrange is still off. I really want to see some good 3rd party measurements of these speakers, I think they won't look that good.
Alpine SWS-10D2 I modeled this sub many times in various applications and I knew it was going to do the job. The nice thing about bass is the wavelengths are such you can use models and they are dead on. No need to guess, no need for hyperbole, the models tell all.
Box started out as a Sound Ordinance BB1075V which is bang on for car bass IMO, but it won't fit behind the TJ's rear seat, which I wasn't using when I bought it. I recently ordered another type of dual 10" box off ebay, which I don't really like for usage reasons (it rubs against the rear door/window and squeaks nonstop), but it works for fit and the bass is decent if not as low (again the model shows that).
[tangent about where I am coming from]
FWIW, I am not a bass head, more of a metal head of late, but I don't use metal to test a system (maybe Porcupine Tree, Meshuggah or Opeth). My background is in applied math and I am a former [re-formed] audiophile. I spent years studying sound reproduction, acoustics, speaker design, amp building and visited some top industry folks' homes. I don't claim to have golden ears at all, but listening is a discipline that requires training. Once trained it is hard to ignore things that are glaring to you.
I don't really focus on soundstage/imaging, as that is a more of a listening illusion of sorts and pretty tall order for a car where you are seated too close to the front speakers and way too far off center, but I want tonal balance to replicate what is suppose to be, that is my primary concern. When discs I listen to all the time on 3 or 4 other systems including headphones sound pretty similar and the Jeep's system sounds vastly different, that is a tell tale sign. For reference I am using JBL M2s in my home, which is also what is used in most of the mixing studios that I personally visited.
[/end tangent]
I am not dissing the Polks, but I am not really impressed either. I thought they were going to be a big upgrade AFAIC they really weren't much. A little clearer (aka less distortion), a little louder, maybe a bit more midbass but the midrange still sucks IMO. It just isn't clear and neutral sounding. Hard to put in words what one hears so another person can relate. I think there are at least 3 things holding this back in my 'guesstimation':
1) the tweeter down low just simply does not work. I can't even see more than a third of either of the tweeter in the driver's position, which means all the HFs are refracted. That is a *HUGE* no-no in all things hi-fi, as this is the presence region where we pick up all on spatial cues. I get the creator of these door hinge brackets thought they were cleverly getting past the fact that one is way too close while the other is far so putting them low levels the distance some, but this created at least 4 more problems than it fixed.
This is first on the list to get corrected. I have been browsing for tweeter pods, and just saw a couple pages back some reasonably priced ones on ebay, thanks for that.
2) the stock front speaker position is simply not good for upper midrange. The volume of space in front of the speaker combined with the small area of the slots versus the area of the cone creates a mathematically predictable low pass filter and almost certainly what is putting my ear hairs on edge. I posit this is a relatively big acoustic issue created worse by those of use who are 'upgrading' to 5" speaker in the stock place, which is increases the compression between the slot area and the woofer area.
I've even kicked around putting a 3" and tweeter on top of the dash in a pod, ala Versa pod as a way to circumvent the issue, which is probably would. If your amp has a HPF like mine then you can put another lower mid 5" in the stock spot to help them out.
3) I think in general car speakers are overpriced versus their competition in other circles. I think audiophile speaker drivers are as well, but pro-audio drivers if you know how to make crossovers (I do a bit) as hugely more cost effective. When it comes to a 3" driver the Faital Pro 3FE22 is on my radar. Seems the ticket.
Anyway, I am not in a hurry to solve anything, but thought I'd toss quite a bit of things into the discussion. And for the record, I am not trying to diss anyone's pride and joy and all that, just that I think it can go quite a bit further without much more if we take the time to think it through.
** I use my hardtop year-round.
I used my old iPod for awhile I have cde143bt...an put in 4 infinity 5032cfx speakers an replaced my old sub speaker with the quadratech one an started streaming from my new iPhone an it sounds very very good...
I only glanced through your post but the Polks are your issue. If you want a cheap upgrade Polk is it. You want a real upgrade, Polk is not it. Actually I recommend people NOT to buy Polk. Kicker D and C series are both cheaper and better.
Now, toss those Polks and come up with a budget. I like the idea of adding a 3" mid on top, but space is limited up there if you also add a tweeter. It can be done, but I would recommend you build a mock set-up and see how it looks.
Relocating the tweeter to the dash is the best mod I made. I have the Valicar tweeter pods with Micro Precision tweeters, and Focal Polyglass mids in the dash. You could look for a matching set with passive crossover, heck I have some Helix P235s if you want them for an experiment? One of the tweeters has indented grill which bothered me so that's why I took them off. But a 5.25" passive component set up front will be a big upgrade.
Check out your amps specs, look for some 2 ohm speakers as well. BLAM makes some 2 ohm. In addition to above I have these Helix speakers in my pods. They are solid.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_975E6X/Helix-Esprit-E6X.html
I just ordered a pair of the cheap ebay tweeter a-pillar pods, a small step in the right direction, but I need to solve the Polk problem still. I don't know why I listened to all the hype when my previous experience with Polk throughout decades was always lackluster. I thought maybe they just had the car speaker market down
Tweeter with an indented grill is easy to fix typically. Depends on how hard the grill is to remove or if it is creased.
I am in Toronto, Canada, not the states (despite being American).
The limited space is precisely the logistic concern, especially considering I plan on adding full cage very soon (prioritized before any major audio upgrades). I might wait till after as see how I can shoe horn a 3" and a tweeter into fabricated pods. That is what fiberglass diy is all about.
Tweeter with an indented grill is easy to fix typically. Depends on how hard the grill is to remove or if it is creased.
I am in Toronto, Canada, not the states (despite being American).
The limited space is precisely the logistic concern, especially considering I plan on adding full cage very soon (prioritized before any major audio upgrades). I might wait till after as see how I can shoe horn a 3" and a tweeter into fabricated pods. That is what fiberglass diy is all about.
Sounds like you shorted yourself which happens to all of us. That's sounds like a nice project you have with a cage, and yeah, no need to craft your own a-pillar prior to the cage install.
To solve your problem costs money...new speakers for the overhead pods, I like the German stuff and steer that way. Helix, BLAM, Ground Zero and Jehnert are good starting points.
Components up front. If shipping isn't a killer to canada they are yours. Any idea what it would cost coming from the states? I think I will be in Rochester NY on Tuesday if shipping is cheaper from there.
Read my guesstimation #2, I think this is a critical regardless of what speakers you use. There is no overcoming an acoustic handicap with a 'better speaker'. This is my motivation for even considering putting a high mid up top the dash.
I did read that and mentioned the space could be an issue. For me there is no way I would sacrifice that space with a 3", and I did mock that up. I am now perfectly happy with the 5.25" in their current location, inside of the select increment pods and sealed with some boom-mat damping material. By no means are my 5.25" high end either, they were a couple bucks more than the Polks, but apples to oranges as the Focals are mids and the Polks are coaxial mids/tweets, but I think you catch the drift here and are on the right path.
By all means you are correct, but you must ask yourself is sacrificing that space worth it to the "driver". Obviously to each his own on that one.
There is a cult following around this brand, and it's reflected in the price.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_898GB25/Audiofrog-GB25.html
I'm so glad my ears arent trained. Lmao. Seriously. Im hard of hearing as it is. And have never been an audiophile. Nor invested much into any sound system. Im happy with my cheap kenwood/polk upgrade. But im all ears if i can make a large improvement for a few dollars more.
I may consider adding an amp or woofer or tweeters on top of the dash. Waiting for your guys test to show some cheap huge improvements. Lol.
I may consider adding an amp or woofer or tweeters on top of the dash. Waiting for your guys test to show some cheap huge improvements. Lol.
I'm so glad my ears arent trained. Lmao. Seriously. Im hard of hearing as it is. And have never been an audiophile. Nor invested much into any sound system. Im happy with my cheap kenwood/polk upgrade. But im all ears if i can make a large improvement for a few dollars more.
I may consider adding an amp or woofer or tweeters on top of the dash. Waiting for your guys test to show some cheap huge improvements. Lol.
This is all subjective, and what you like is best. If you are happy with your current set-up then no need to change if it works for you.
You can build a nice system for not a lot of bucks, and every set-up is not for everyone. Like dash tweeter mounted may not be a good placement if you have a cb mounted up there that is regularly used.
What is your current set-up, head unit, amplifier and speakers? If you do want to upgrade what would you want to budget?
Honestly @skrelnik. I have so many other upgrades to make. I budgeted next to nothing for sound system. It came with a kenwood headunit. And i added Polk 5.25" speakers. In the dash and soundbar. The jump from stock speakers on my kenwood to polks was amazing. I also used those cheap foam pods on the dash. And polyfil in the soundbars.
I assume i need to add an amp and subwoofer. Maybe some tweeters. And I have not found an entry level unit in either one that came highly recommended. I also have a premium on space. Im really looking at my build plans more like a lite overlanding rig. So putting a big sub in a box or under the back seat is out. I dont have a cb mounted on the a pillar. So that space is open. But again, only if its gonna blow me away. Im not an audiophile. Lol. I can get the model number off my kenwood if you need it.
I have so much more to spend money on tho. Lol. Like tires. And bumpers and tire carriers and jerry can holders and a 2.5" lift to carry it all. The list goes on.
But im all ears. What should i buy next to upgrade my system?
Ha, I totally get it, and you went in a great starting direction with all new speakers and boom mat. I would always recommend that foam boom mat to house the 5.25" dash speakers over the select increment pods when someone is on a budget build. Every Wrangler owner has a different purpose for their vehicle, as well as individual quirks, so there is no real one size fits all model for Wrangler audio.
You should be able to accomplish what you want. Do you have a center console subwoofer, are you utilizing that space for anything? This is the easiest place to add some bass without compromising any space, but you may have a Tuffy center censole, or a non-subwoofer center console.
Things to consider are an amplifier and subwoofer, and then upgrading the dash speakers to components, if that fits your personal taste.
For whatever its worth:
I don't consider myself an audiophile, although I *am* a musician. Which probably means my brain fills in missing sounds for me! However, the Jensen JHD1630B "Heavy duty" head unit, in combination with a pair of the forum recommended 5-1/4" Kickers in the dash, and an older set of 6" Jensen marine speakers in the overhead has literally woken me up to a new world! I find myself taking the Jeep just so I can listen to this wonderful stereo - and I usually don't listen to a car stereo all that much!
Although I have a pretty new JVC in the Mercedes, I'm now thinking that the 36 year old stock speakers could stand a change-out...
I don't consider myself an audiophile, although I *am* a musician. Which probably means my brain fills in missing sounds for me! However, the Jensen JHD1630B "Heavy duty" head unit, in combination with a pair of the forum recommended 5-1/4" Kickers in the dash, and an older set of 6" Jensen marine speakers in the overhead has literally woken me up to a new world! I find myself taking the Jeep just so I can listen to this wonderful stereo - and I usually don't listen to a car stereo all that much!
Although I have a pretty new JVC in the Mercedes, I'm now thinking that the 36 year old stock speakers could stand a change-out...