What can my TJ handle at Moab?

Apparition

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
433
Location
Twin Cities, MN
The Top of the World trail is looking really, really tempting. From what I keep reading about it, I'm leaning towards thinking it may be out of my skill level.
Top of the world is a lot of ledges, climb them on the way up and descend them on the way down. It’s not that bad and other than top there’s no steep cliffs to worry about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SecondChanceTJ

HardSell

New Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
16
Location
New Mexico
Run the trails with your lockers on
If you leave 'em on you'll snap your axles unless you are using automatic lockers designed to release under a certain tension threshold such as Detroit or Aussie lockers. Rubicon, ARB, OX, Eaton are selectable lockers and must be released before that threshold is met. Only use selectable lockers in straight ascents or straight flattish boulder fields. Rears can handle slight turning without snapping. Fronts not so. Moreover, turning increases friction. Have watched experts ascend locker recommended hills without lockers by merely steering left and right to distribute grabbing traction and maintain forward momentum. Lockers serve to simplify steep ascents and assure traction for diagonal two wheel/one wheel touches. Disconnecting the sway bar greatly assists traction and adds a great deal of safety to manage off camber terrain. Be sure not to use lockers when one wheel is going to be pinched between a cliff and a large rock; back off before getting pinched and take another line. Try to remember lockers are useless when none of the wheels are touching as in a rollover situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SecondChanceTJ
OP
SecondChanceTJ
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
45
Location
SW Louisiana
If you leave 'em on you'll snap your axles unless you are using automatic lockers designed to release under a certain tension threshold such as Detroit or Aussie lockers. Rubicon, ARB, OX, Eaton are selectable lockers and must be released before that threshold is met. Only use selectable lockers in straight ascents or straight flattish boulder fields. Rears can handle slight turning without snapping. Fronts not so. Moreover, turning increases friction. Have watched experts ascend locker recommended hills without lockers by merely steering left and right to distribute grabbing traction and maintain forward momentum. Lockers serve to simplify steep ascents and assure contact for diagonal two wheel/one wheel touches. Disconnecting the sway bar greatly assists traction and adds a great deal of safety to manage off camber terrain. Be sure not to use lockers when one wheel is going to be pinched between a cliff and a large rock; back off before getting pinched and take another line. Try to remember lockers are useless when none of the wheels are touching as in a rollover situation.
That reminds me of a question I had. Do people usually disconnect only the front sway bar, or both?
 

LONGJP2

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
386
Location
Illinois
Disconnecting the sway bar greatly assists traction and adds a great deal of safety to manage off camber terrain.
Disconnecting will increase articulation, which can help keep the tires on the ground for traction. However, it does not help in off camber situations. The chassis is going to try to lean even more than the angle of the axles. Being connected prevents that, which is why the Antirock help with both.
 
Last edited:

HardSell

New Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
16
Location
New Mexico
Disconnecting will increase articulation, which can help keep the tires on the ground for traction. However, it does not help in off camber situations. The chassis is going to try to lean even more than the angle of the axles. Being connected prevents that, which is why the Antirock help with both.
Disconnecting allows the uphill wheel to be pushed up into the wheel well allowing the downhill wheel to EXTEND downward thus leveling the vehicle. Not disconnecting will tip the vehicle as the axle springs are constrained from flexing. Watch a few Youtube videos and you will soon see what I'm talking about. See photo attached. Notice I'm level. Notice the flex of the right wheel DOWN into the crack with the left wheel pushed UP. If I was connected, the vehicle would roll toward the camera, then roll the other direction as the right wheel would begin to climb and tip over to the left. Descend the uneven Z turn on the Rim without disconnecting. You'll roll all the way to Devil's Crack. I'm not disconnected in the avatar. If I turned right I would roll. If I did this again disconnected, and turned right, the right tire would be pushed down closer to the ground decreasing if not eliminating the possibility of a rollover.

LevelTerrainAtLast.JPG
 

LONGJP2

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
386
Location
Illinois
Disconnecting allows the uphill wheel to be pushed up into the wheel well allowing the downhill wheel to EXTEND downward thus leveling the vehicle. Not disconnecting will tip the vehicle as the axle springs are constrained from flexing. Watch a few Youtube videos and you will soon see what I'm talking about. See photo attached. Notice I'm level. Notice the flex of the right wheel DOWN into the crack with the left wheel pushed UP. If I was connected, the vehicle would roll toward the camera, then roll the other direction as the right wheel would begin to climb and tip over to the left. Descend the uneven Z turn on the Rim without disconnecting. You'll roll all the way to Devil's Crack. I'm not disconnected in the avatar. If I turned right I would roll. If I did this again disconnected, and turned right, the right tire would be pushed down closer to the ground decreasing if not eliminating the possibility of a rollover.

View attachment 140111
That is not what I would call off camber. Your rear axle is flat and it's your rear (connected) sway bar that is keeping the jeep flat.
 

MagnumV8

New Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Messages
2
Location
Quad Cities, IL
April 10th thru 17th(?) - I have a 2 day drive back home and have to be back before that Monday (20th). Not sure exactly when we'll be heading back, we were thinking about taking the scenic route through El Paso. The 17th would definitely be my last chance for any wheeling that week though.
It sounds like we would only have one day (17th) that we would both be there. My plan was to do Finns & Things and Hells Revenge one day then do Top of the World and Poison Spider the other day. If you are interested in meeting up and wheeling together that day, let me know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SecondChanceTJ

jjvw

Now 100% Metalcloak free
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
10,497
Location
Colorado, USA
If you leave 'em on you'll snap your axles unless you are using automatic lockers designed to release under a certain tension threshold such as Detroit or Aussie lockers. Rubicon, ARB, OX, Eaton are selectable lockers and must be released before that threshold is met. ....

No. None of that is correct.
 

jjvw

Now 100% Metalcloak free
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
10,497
Location
Colorado, USA
Disconnecting allows the uphill wheel to be pushed up into the wheel well allowing the downhill wheel to EXTEND downward thus leveling the vehicle. Not disconnecting will tip the vehicle as the axle springs are constrained from flexing. Watch a few Youtube videos and you will soon see what I'm talking about. See photo attached. Notice I'm level. Notice the flex of the right wheel DOWN into the crack with the left wheel pushed UP. If I was connected, the vehicle would roll toward the camera, then roll the other direction as the right wheel would begin to climb and tip over to the left. Descend the uneven Z turn on the Rim without disconnecting. You'll roll all the way to Devil's Crack. I'm not disconnected in the avatar. If I turned right I would roll. If I did this again disconnected, and turned right, the right tire would be pushed down closer to the ground decreasing if not eliminating the possibility of a rollover.

View attachment 140111
It's far simpler. Disconnecting the front will cause the body to stay parallel to the rear axle - to the point that the rear sway bar can control the body. Body roll to the downhill side will still occur. The disconnected front axle is free to flop around independently of what the body is doing. Articulation both up and down is increased as much as the shocks will allow. This uncontrolled movement is beneficial until is isn't.
 

HardSell

New Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
16
Location
New Mexico
That is not what I would call off camber. Your rear axle is flat and it's your rear (connected) sway bar that is keeping the jeep flat.
If you look closer the left rear is barely touching 12-15 inches downhill from the right. How would you think that is possible on flat terrain? The leafs do flex somewhat. One does not disconnect rear axle leafs; that is asking for trouble. There's nothing flat about this crossing. I didn't intend to get into a pissing match here; only been doing this for 40 years...never rolled one driving a lot of off cambered terrain. One is much less tippy disconnected going around the up side of Black Hole on Hell's Revenge. That's off camber for at least 50 yards. Then there's Tip Over Challenge. You'll tip over connected. It's an off camber climb.
"... Run the trails with your lockers on. ...
This is correct'
Have broken axles using lockers when I shouldn't have been. Auto lockers are best on trails; require attention in rain, lots of attention in snow. For those who recommend keeping switchable lockers constantly engaged running trails, then why don't you just wheel with spooled front diffs? A whole lot cheaper setup if changing out axles is your thing?
 

jjvw

Now 100% Metalcloak free
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
10,497
Location
Colorado, USA
.... For those who recommend keeping switchable lockers constantly engaged running trails, then why don't you just wheel with spooled front diffs? A whole lot cheaper setup if changing out axles is your thing?
Because a spool is no good on the highway or at the grocery store.

FWiW, I leave my axles locked most of the time on any trail that warrants lockers. I also don't have stock shafts anymore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rasband

HardSell

New Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
16
Location
New Mexico
FWiW, I leave my axles locked most of the time on any trail that warrants lockers. I also don't have stock shafts anymore.
Most do have stock shafts. Polychrome alloys are also breakable, Just gotta try harder. I enjoy open diffs on 98% of every trail I've driven. I use lockers on the other 2%. Potato Salad Hill is another matter.
 

JMT

The Jeep Guy
Supporting Member
Ride of the Month Winner
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
9,764
Location
Washington
If you leave 'em on you'll snap your axles unless you are using automatic lockers designed to release under a certain tension threshold such as Detroit or Aussie lockers. Rubicon, ARB, OX, Eaton are selectable lockers and must be released before that threshold is met. Only use selectable lockers in straight ascents or straight flattish boulder fields. Rears can handle slight turning without snapping. Fronts not so. Moreover, turning increases friction. Have watched experts ascend locker recommended hills without lockers by merely steering left and right to distribute grabbing traction and maintain forward momentum. Lockers serve to simplify steep ascents and assure traction for diagonal two wheel/one wheel touches. Disconnecting the sway bar greatly assists traction and adds a great deal of safety to manage off camber terrain. Be sure not to use lockers when one wheel is going to be pinched between a cliff and a large rock; back off before getting pinched and take another line. Try to remember lockers are useless when none of the wheels are touching as in a rollover situation.
Simply not true. I’ve even run spooled rear D44 stock shafts with a damaged pinion gear (before I got it) as a DD without issue on 33’s
 

HardSell

New Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
16
Location
New Mexico
SecondChanceTJ said:


The Top of the World trail is looking really, really tempting. From what I keep reading about it, I'm leaning towards thinking it may be out of my skill level.


Just do it. You'll be perfectly fine. The top third of the trail is actually a loop. You probably won't see the junction going up. Don't turn left if you do see it. Return the same way you go up. The northeast leg of the loop is shorter, but more difficult even descending. The worst thing about TOW is its relentless length getting there. Low range is all that is required.
 
Last edited:

Honeybadger

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
68
Location
SoCal
Hi y'all!
I'm planning on making my pilgrimage to the holy land at Easter Jeep safari this year, and I'd like your input on two questions I have:

1. What difficulty rating of trails can my TJ (and myself with not much offroad experience) handle at Moab? (without damage, because it's my ride home too)
It's a Rubicon with a 3" coil lift, 265/70 17 Duratracs, otherwise stock.

and 2. What equipment should I seriously consider bringing with me or adding to my Jeep to be better prepared for the trails?
-tool set, water, recovery points, recovery straps, CB radio?, oil, coolant, ATF for PS, fire extinguisher already on the list

I don't want to miss anything, and as I'm doing my homework for the trip, I'd like to hear some advice from people with experience at Moab/EJS. Thanks!
Hi y'all!
I'm planning on making my pilgrimage to the holy land at Easter Jeep safari this year, and I'd like your input on two questions I have:

1. What difficulty rating of trails can my TJ (and myself with not much offroad experience) handle at Moab? (without damage, because it's my ride home too)
It's a Rubicon with a 3" coil lift, 265/70 17 Duratracs, otherwise stock.

and 2. What equipment should I seriously consider bringing with me or adding to my Jeep to be better prepared for the trails?
-tool set, water, recovery points, recovery straps, CB radio?, oil, coolant, ATF for PS, fire extinguisher already on the list

I don't want to miss anything, and as I'm doing my homework for the trip, I'd like to hear some advice from people with experience at Moab/EJS. Thanks!
Your rig should be capable of everything you are comfortable doing on the trail and then some. I’m sure you will be checking fluids and under the Jeep to make sure everything is in working order for this big of trip. Get the portable air source as suggested. Not a bad idea to bring extra spark plugs, ujoints, brake fluid, and even a set of front axle shafts. Don’t worry about SYE and clearance concerns until you wheel it enough to know it will make a difference. You should only need the lockers briefly on certain parts of the trail and utilize 4 low. Study the lines the other rigs take and you’ll know who to follow... Enjoy!
 
  • Like
Reactions: SecondChanceTJ