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What causes the backflip rollover?

psrivats

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I see what you did there, LOL

I also agree with the point about learning how to work under pressure and the value of working, sometimes ridiculously hard, to get to the end. Funny you say you barely use what you learned in Grad school. I have an engineering undergrad and a masters in business...I use my grad school knowledge ALL the time now, and barely do any engineering anymore. The stuff I do is mostly for my own purposes or troubleshooting controls problems.

I took up a new (for me) engineering role within the company that's more product centric last year. While you need to have had prior good technical experience, this job is more about managing/evaluating manufacturing expectations/what-ifs and clearly communicating technical things to people that aren't experts but still need to know so that they can make business (ie money) decisions. Before this role, I have only ever worked with other engineers and researchers (even managers are engineers) and communication was very different.

In the new role, the potential for chaos due to someone misunderstanding/misinterpreting what they hear is huge and if that happens, weeks get wasted to get things back on track. I'm learning firsthand that effective communication and diplomacy require as much learning and attention, if not more, than anything technical you can name.

My job still has a good technical component that I enjoy, but what's exciting for me is seeing my own evolution beyond being an engineer. I've seen some senior people that I work with for whom this is (or seems) more natural and I marvel their sense of negotiating for what's ahead.
 

Ruby Yellow

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Has anyone modified the braking system to include an auxillary controller for just the front brakes? If just the front brakes could be applied in those situations, then flipping over backwards could probably be avoided in many instances.
 

TNHEADDUCK

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I have cutting brakes on my rock buggy, it utilizes 2 hand operated master cylinders after the foot operated master cylinder. I use it quite often in various situations.
 
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jjvw

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Has anyone modified the braking system to include an auxillary controller for just the front brakes? If just the front brakes could be applied in those situations, then flipping over backwards could probably be avoided in many instances.
How?
 

Brianj5600

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Has anyone modified the braking system to include an auxillary controller for just the front brakes? If just the front brakes could be applied in those situations, then flipping over backwards could probably be avoided in many instances.

I think neutral with an automatic and clutch with a manual, then the brakes. I have considered modifying my automatic shifter to allow going straight to reverse, but I'm worried about street driving like that.
 

Ruby Yellow

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jjvw

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I am researching that now. I did find a previous post where one owner found this adjustable proportioning valve installed in his TJ: https://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd?itemno=260-11179. Although he did not say that he experimented with the rear only adjustment know, I contacted the company and asked how much the braking pressure could be reduced to the rear through the adjustment know. I will report back when I hear from them.
No. How does braking the front only prevent a backflip?
 

Ruby Yellow

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By using front brakes only while climbing and getting into a front end light situation, it limits or eliminates the weight transfer to the rear tires which act as a pivot point when locked and can make the vehicle much more likely to tip over backwards. This is common practice among ATV riders when they climb steep hills where they do not make it to the top. The more experienced riders know not to apply the rear brake to avoid going over backwards and if you look at videos of hillclimbs, you will observe that the riders who drag the front brakes backwards while they descend backwards down the hills do much better in those situations.
 

AndyG

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I watched rollover videos too, because I wanted to learn and hopefully avoid one-

Maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed like guys hitting climbs trying to use momentum was usually a bad move, versus traction and line choice. When the guys that gunned it didn’t make it, things seemed to come apart.

I realize some obstacles may require that. Cool thread.
 

hosejockey61

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The biggest thing I can think of is slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

What I mean by that is, if you can get the rig into reverse, that is your best option. All brakes do is prolong the inevitable if you've already reached the tipping point. The first time I flopped it on its side I was in a hurry to get it in reverse and missed.
 
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Ruby Yellow

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I received a response from Wildwood Brakes. This was their response:

"Thank you for the inquiry with Wilwood Disc Brakes. That part number is actually a proportioning valve not a master cylinder and is a universal part.

That being said it can adjusted plus or minus up to 57% however you shouldn’t need it on a Jeep that new as all the factory parts are well suited for just about anything you can throw at it and swaping them out could result in issues with the brake system."

So, we now know if that proportioning valve is installed in a TJ, one could reduce the amount of brake fulid to the rear brakes up to 57%. I suppose that could be helpful in preventing a rear tipover but I still think that if the rear brake circuit could be by-passed entirely, that would be the best solution. I think I saw one response on this forum where someone did a mod like that to their rock crawler and installed an handle on the dash to operate the front brakes only in the situations that would call for dragging the front brakes to keep the front end on the ground but I can't seem to find it now.
 

jjvw

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... I think I saw one response on this forum where someone did a mod like that to their rock crawler and installed an handle on the dash to operate the front brakes only in the situations that would call for dragging the front brakes to keep the front end on the ground but I can't seem to find it now.
Which transfer case were they using?
 
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someguysjeep

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once you're at this point you need that drive neutral or reverse real fast. brakes are for once your back below that tipping point and the F to R brake bias worked just fine b4 that point, no?. you gotta disco the push like lightning a split second b4 your point, no?
 

Mrholland

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Good read, but seems overly complicated.

Know your rig, and it know well. Know how to read the obstacle, pick the proper line for your rig and level of experience. Have a good spotter that you trust not to turn you over, and use the appropriate amount of throttle, as little as needed to accomplish the task. Watching the rig ahead of you make the climb potentially can build a false sense of security.

Of course none of that guarantees you won't turn over, but begin subtracting from the above equation and the odds will work against you.
 

Akitadog

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A friend of mine has his front winch going back behind to pulleys and it pulls the front suspension down for when he comes up to thee types of climbs.