What do I need to put coilovers on my TJ?

[mrblaine]

Yes, and it is so much more fun to drive a budget or stock TJ and pass the $50K trailered, maxed out crawler.

While that is true and I don't doubt it happens, the other side of that is if you bring your stock Rubicon or budget boosted rig with lockers to where we play, you won't even get more than a few yards into some of the trails, slightly more on others, less on some.

Keep it close to stock. Keep it well maintained. And learn to drive.

Everyone should do that and keep doing it until the trails they are trying demand more capability. The learn to drive part is the best advice ever.

 

[mrblaine]

If there isn't any pressure on the tire what difference does it make if it is on the ground? Or at least that is my understanding.

We should explore that topic a bit since it is very highly misunderstood. Folks will mostly incorrectly assume that my stance is that the spring should not come loose in the bucket since any more droop than that is a waste. I set them up that way because that is my personal philosophy and I can.

If you want to learn how it really works, get an RTI ramp or something that works as one. Works best if you have selectable lockers. Try it up the ramp open and it will stop when it diagonals out. Carefully step inside the tire and add some weight to the rear axle and watch what happens. It will climb higher easily. Then lock it up and watch what happens, generally it will go high enough to fall over off the ramp.

The things we can learn are that articulation done correctly will get you further down the trail in general. Springs falling out of the bucket are not inherently bad for a few reasons. There is still the weight of the tire and axle adding traction and if you have bump stops on the other side of the axle, they will act as a fulcrum and lever the long side down. It won't be much extra, but as demonstrated by just adding a few pounds by stepping on the rear axle, it can be enough to get further or at least you have some more traction.

None of that is going to out do the locked up axles though. They help, they add up, but lockers rule over them handily. The better answer is always all things in balance.

 

[AndyG]

I appreciate all the tips for the rig you guys! I tend be very fiscally responsible and I pride myself being probably one of the few 17 year olds you’ll meet in this generation that doesn’t shy away from rough, hard ass work (KY blood). I’m willing to do whatever to my jeep as i’m pursuing a career in fab, and can’t get enough of the lessons it teaches me about patience especially and just learning how to work on my vehicle. I just want to put myself as far ahead of anyone my age as i can in my career i wish to pursue. I’ve gone to my local jeep shop called V3 jeeps and they are working with me a little bit to see what my overall articulation is. Pics coming soon y’all! (here’s some pics to show you guys the rig) Really glad i finally made an account for these forums you guys are too helpful!View attachment 89220View attachment 89221View attachment 89222View attachment 89223

Young man ,that's great .

Be the kid that folks say " give me him to work with "

All you learn WILL pay off . Work , put yourself out there , learn .

Guys like Mr. Blaine don't just wake up one day and know a lot . They work , they study their craft , they strive to understand . They keep getting back up , and it all comes together. This is true in any field , any where.

You should be proud, we need more young people with your attitude in this world today.

 

[IPerkWVU]

I appreciate all the tips for the rig you guys! I tend be very fiscally responsible and I pride myself being probably one of the few 17 year olds you’ll meet in this generation that doesn’t shy away from rough, hard ass work (KY blood). I’m willing to do whatever to my jeep as i’m pursuing a career in fab, and can’t get enough of the lessons it teaches me about patience especially and just learning how to work on my vehicle. I just want to put myself as far ahead of anyone my age as i can in my career i wish to pursue. I’ve gone to my local jeep shop called V3 jeeps and they are working with me a little bit to see what my overall articulation is. Pics coming soon y’all! (here’s some pics to show you guys the rig) Really glad i finally made an account for these forums you guys are too helpful!View attachment 89220View attachment 89221View attachment 89222View attachment 89223

Did you buy this within the last year or so? it looks real similar to one that was on Craigslist recently. If it was the one I remember, it’s a way nicer ride than I had at 17

 

[Blubicon.LJ]

Did you buy this within the last year or so? it looks real similar to one that was on Craigslist recently. If it was the one I remember, it’s a way nicer ride than I had at 17

I did! bought it in november and i bought my 94 yota this past month so the build is definitely on a thin budget with a walmart salary and two vehicle and insurance payments but i’m making it work! lol

 

[IPerkWVU]

I did! bought it in november and i bought my 94 yota this past month so the build is definitely on a thin budget with a walmart salary and two vehicle and insurance payments but i’m making it work! lolView attachment 89440

Wheel it as is, it will handle most anything in the Midwest by the looks of it

 

[Blubicon.LJ]

Wheel it as is, it will handle most anything in the Midwest by the looks of it

that’s kinda the plan, i just am not a fan of my bilesteins bottoming out so easily. shocks and possibly dual rate coils are what i’ve got my eyes on now...

 

[Drizit]

that’s kinda the plan, i just am not a fan of my bilesteins bottoming out so easily. shocks and possibly dual rate coils are what i’ve got my eyes on now...

If the shocks are bottoming out, that means your bump stops are too short. Fix that before anything else. Perhaps look at air bumps before any other major upgrade if that still isn't good enough.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

 

[kmas0n]

It seems to be the general consensus that putting coil overs on a jeep suddenly makes it VERY expensive. But other than the cost of the actual coil-over vs shock + coil, what am I missing?

For the rear...

Fox 12" RR shock $269 x 2 = $538
Currie 4" rear spring = $230
poly performance mounts = $200
Total: $978

Fox 12" RR Coil-over w/ springs $550 x 2 (Accutune) = $1100
Poly performance mounts + $200
Total $1300

The difference between outboard a 2.0 vs outboard a 2.0 Coilover fabrication wise seems reasonable. Instead of frenching the mount into the frame, you would need to cut the rearmost 16-18" off completely, fit the CO and weld rearmost frame section back on and reinforce accordingly. @mrblaine proved it can do it with a stock axle. I'm not saying $1300 is cheap, but it is only a little more expensive than the popular currie/fox outboard. I'm not saying this kind of fabrication is easy, but it's only a little more involved than the popular currie/fox outboard.

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[LONGJP2]

and being able to not bottom out the shocks driving the way i do.

Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, but at 17, this could be part of the problem.

 

[toximus]

Is there something I'm missing?

1) Expect to either buy more coils than you know what to do with or spend time exchanging them.
2) Expect to spend more money on tuning them.

@mrblaine proved it can do it with a stock axle.

There is less than a 1/4" window in their placement iirc. That was an LJ on 35s you saw, with the TJ you'd have to consider the gas tank. This is much more time consuming than outboarding 2.0 shocks so if time = money than it costs a lot more.

Fox 12" RR Coil-over w/ springs $550 x 2 (Accutune) = $1100

Is this a 2.0 or 2.5? If it's the 2.0 you'll need to upgrade to a DSC (requires different body) to get decent tuning out of them.

 

[kmas0n]

You know far more about this then I do, So I'm asking questions to learn, not to argue. Please understand that.

1) Expect to either buy more coils than you know what to do with or spend time exchanging them.
2) Expect to spend more money on tuning them.

A spring calculator should get you ballpark. If the goal is to get the softest spring that can give you the ride height you desire, then can't a tuner work with the weight of the vehicle, the known spring rate, and your driving preferences and terrain and create a tune that should be pretty solid. It seems pcoplin, wayne, or accutune could likely set something up that works well.


There is less than a 1/4" window in their placement iirc. That was an LJ on 35s you saw, with the TJ you'd have to consider the gas tank. This is much more time consuming than outboarding 2.0 shocks so if time = money than it costs a lot more.

It is tight. You would have to make room for a 3" cylinder vs a 2". probably why some people use a shock hoop instead of the poly kit. Still, I think it could be done. Then I would expect you would have to cut the frame completely off behind the shock mount, then reposition it so the shock could occupy the area the frame used to. I can see the gussets and supports getting in the way of the tank.


Is this a 2.0 or 2.5? If it's the 2.0 you'll need to upgrade to a DSC (requires different body) to get decent tuning out of them.

2.0 would be sufficient unless you wanted to race. Why would a 2.0 RR CO need the DSC to perform and the 2.0 RR smoothie be fine without one?

Again, please understand, this is not a post challenging your knowledge, in fact, what you have provided is greatly appreciated. I'm genuinely very interested in what's involved past "it is hard to do and expensive" I would like to know the how and why. With all the parts sitting in the garage for an Outboard, before I start, I want to make sure I don't want to go the next step to CO.

 

[toximus]

I'm asking questions to learn

Please do.

A spring calculator should get you ballpark.

Once you know the weight of each corner. But you either need a scale or springs to calculate.

It seems pcoplin, wayne, or accutune could likely set something up that works well.

The difficulty I'm finding is the merge between my preferences and the tuners ability to meet them. There are 2 tuners that I'd work with, one doesn't ship, the other can take a year to see your shocks back. A lot of tuners don't know how to tune and I'd stay away from them.

2.0 would be sufficient unless you wanted to race. Why would a 2.0 RR CO need the DSC to perform and the 2.0 RR smoothie be fine without one?

The DSCs handle night and day different than normal RR, including on the street. 2.0 smoothies with RR is tolerable on a light Jeep but not ideal.

With all the parts sitting in the garage for an Outboard, before I start, I want to make sure I don't want to go the next step to CO.

What do you want to gain from spending the extra cash on coilovers? Aside from bragging rights at the bar?

 

[kmas0n]

Please do.

Thank you!




Once you know the weight of each corner. But you either need a scale or springs to calculate.

I can do that.






The difficulty I'm finding is the merge between my preferences and the tuners ability to meet them. There are 2 tuners that I'd work with, one doesn't ship, the other can take a year to see your shocks back. A lot of tuners don't know how to tune and I'd stay away from them.

Good to know




The DSCs handle night and day different than normal RR, including on the street. 2.0 smoothies with RR is tolerable on a light Jeep but not ideal.

Also, good to know



What do you want to gain from spending the extra cash on coilovers? Aside from bragging rights at the bar?

Lol, I don't drink or go to bars and could care less about impressing others. I don't really expect to gain much from coil-overs either. I am considering going to coil-overs for the same reason I designed and built a mid-arm 3 link for the rear of my TJ... Or learned woodworking to make my kitchen cabinets. I design, build and fabricate because its fun. I like making things. I can't think of a better reason than that. If my coil overs impress the girls at the Starbucks drive-through, I guess that's ok too. What drives you?

 

[mrblaine]

It seems to be the general consensus that putting coil overs on a jeep suddenly makes it VERY expensive. But other than the cost of the actual coil-over vs shock + coil, what am I missing?

For the rear...

Fox 12" RR shock $269 x 2 = $538
Currie 4" rear spring = $230
poly performance mounts = $200
Total: $978

Fox 12" RR Coil-over w/ springs $550 x 2 (Accutune) = $1100
Poly performance mounts + $200
Total $1300

The difference between outboard a 2.0 vs outboard a 2.0 Coilover fabrication wise seems reasonable. Instead of frenching the mount into the frame, you would need to cut the rearmost 16-18" off completely, fit the CO and weld rearmost frame section back on and reinforce accordingly. @mrblaine proved it can do it with a stock axle. I'm not saying $1300 is cheap, but it is only a little more expensive than the popular currie/fox outboard. I'm not saying this kind of fabrication is easy, but it's only a little more involved than the popular currie/fox outboard.

Is there something I'm missing?

Fabrication is the difference. I can do both front and rear outboard jobs in a couple of days, it takes a couple of weeks to do the coil over hoops and cycle everything to make sure it all works. If you don't care if it works, the time goes way down.

 

[mrblaine]

Lol, I don't drink or go to bars and could care less about impressing others. I don't really expect to gain much from coil-overs either. I am considering going to coil-overs for the same reason I designed and built a mid-arm 3 link for the rear of my TJ... Or learned woodworking to make my kitchen cabinets. I design, build and fabricate because its fun. I like making things. I can't think of a better reason than that. If my coil overs impress the girls at the Starbucks drive-through, I guess that's ok too. What drives you?

The main reason to go to coil overs is ride height adjustability and not dropping the springs out of contact. Right now, it is very hard to get more than 11" of good travel in the front without some goofy shock that rides like ass. With a 12" coil over I can easily get 13" of good solid travel. Add a heavy winch, swap a spring or screw the adjuster down. Add a light bumper, screw the adjuster up, right back where you started ride height wise. Get your height dialed in with enough preload and you can swap back and forth between a hard and soft top and keep the same ride height. Get the tune right with the DSC reservoirs and you can solve the jarring harshness running empty to hitting the road to the trails with all your gear and get a much more comfy ride. It's all about being in charge of what you want the rig to do and then making it do it. We get tired of setting a rig up and then the owner complains that he emptied it out, put the soft top on and now it sucks on the street.

 

[NotsowildTJ]

that’s kinda the plan, i just am not a fan of my bilesteins bottoming out so easily. shocks and possibly dual rate coils are what i’ve got my eyes on now...

I had the exact same issue. Currie 4” springs and new bilstein 5100s for a 4” lift. The rear shocks would bottom out all the time especially towards the end of the day. (Shocks would overheat?)

I switched to 4.5” RE springs in the rear hoping the stiffer spring would help.. nope, it didn’t.

So I got a set of bilstein 5160s for the rear only (essentialy a 5100 with a resi?). It solved my issue immediately. No more bottoming out.

I have a tire carrier, 35” MT mud terrain, and HIgh lift jack mounted on the rear.

 

[kmas0n]

The main reason to go to coil overs is ride height adjustability and not dropping the springs out of contact. Right now, it is very hard to get more than 11" of good travel in the front without some goofy shock that rides like ass. With a 12" coil over I can easily get 13" of good solid travel. Add a heavy winch, swap a spring or screw the adjuster down. Add a light bumper, screw the adjuster up, right back where you started ride height wise. Get your height dialed in with enough preload and you can swap back and forth between a hard and soft top and keep the same ride height. Get the tune right with the DSC reservoirs and you can solve the jarring harshness running empty to hitting the road to the trails with all your gear and get a much more comfy ride. It's all about being in charge of what you want the rig to do and then making it do it. We get tired of setting a rig up and then the owner complains that he emptied it out, put the soft top on and now it sucks on the street.

Well, there ya have it. With that kind of testimonial.... Fox, just take my money already.

It does sound ideal though. Load up for camping screw the preload down to compensate for the weight, adjusts DSC. Get to camping spot, strip the Jeep down, reduce preload, adjust DSC, go wheel. Sounds perfect actually

 

[mrblaine]

Well, there ya have it. With that kind of testimonial.... Fox, just take my money already.

It does sound ideal though. Load up for camping screw the preload down to compensate for the weight, adjusts DSC. Get to camping spot, strip the Jeep down, reduce preload, adjust DSC, go wheel. Sounds perfect actually

It isn't quite that easy to adjust. You would have to pull the rear tires and droop it out to take the load off of the adjusters.

 

[kmas0n]

It isn't quite that easy to adjust. You would have to pull the rear tires and droop it out to take the load off of the adjusters.

I guess it is a little more involved than swaybar disconnects. Is it worth it (DSC) in the front where the weight will not change often?