What type of oil do you use?

Live in Canada .... local temperature falls into the Jeep Oil Guidelines for 10W-30 ...
For the equivalent price of a few cups of coffee ..... I've chosen to run a synthetic.
Name brand synthetic has a proven track record, as does name brand dino oil ....
Follow the manufacturers guidelines for oil type and change frequencies ...... don't over think this.
 
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You have succumbed to Amsoil's misleading oil life claims... what you don't realize by not changing your oil at the intervals recommended by Jeep is that your oil FILTER gets just as dirty as with any oil and you're leaving it in past its useful life. Engine oil picks up dirt, contaminants, naturally occurring acids, combustion byproducts etc. at the same rate no matter what the quality of the oil is. By leaving the oil filter in 2X as long as it should be you're asking for the filter to go into bypass mode.

I don't care HOW good an oil is, it still needs to be changed at the engine manufacturer's recommended intervals. Amsoil misleads their customers on a lot of things like that. They're laughing all the way to the bank thanks to the snakes in their marketing and sales department.
I could probably just look this up my self but you seem pretty damn knowledgable on the topic. What exactly is "intervals" that you are refering to? 8 always changed my oil every 3k or in my newer vehicles, synthetic every 6k. Is there something I'm missing?
 
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I may have missed this, but what is the recommended oil change interval for the 4.0? Usually I like to run mine for about 5k miles.
 
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I could probably just look this up my self but you seem pretty damn knowledgable on the topic. What exactly is "intervals" that you are refering to? 8 always changed my oil every 3k or in my newer vehicles, synthetic every 6k. Is there something I'm missing?
Every 3K miles only started with the quick lube joints like Jiffy Lube trying to maximize their income. Every 5k is my interval and that will only be reduced if I have been wheeling in exceptionally dusty conditions.

Keep in mind that oil change intervals should be the same for conventional and synthetic motor oils since, as described above, the engine contaminates synthetic and conventional oils at the same rate. The oil filter gets dirty at the same rate too. Synthetic may theoretically last longer but it still gets dirty at the same rate. Oil filters can't filter out the really fine stuff or the naturally occurring combustion byproducts, acids, etc..
 
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Every 3K miles only started with the quick lube joints like Jiffy Lube trying to maximize their income. Every 5k is my interval but that will only be reduced if I have been wheeling in exceptionally dusty conditions.

Keep in mind that oil change intervals should be the same for conventional and synthetic motor oils since, as described above, the engine contaminates synthetic and conventional oils at the same rate. The oil filter gets dirty at the same rate too. Synthetic may theoretically last longer but it still gets dirty at the same rate. Oil filters can't filter out the really fine stuff or the naturally occurring combustion byproducts, acids, etc..

Oh ok, makes sense, thanks jerry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Schaffers from St. Louis, I've drank the kool aid on this stuff. Switched almost everything over to it including the equipment. Good fuel additives, really good penetrating oil and cleaner.
 
I agree on 3k miles being way, way too soon. That 3k mile BS was a myth started by oil change places trying to get more money from you. Most people know better these days, but once upon a time, they had a good chunk of people believing that 3k miles was the max.
 
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I change mine twice a year, which works out to about 5,000km (3,000 miles). Spring and Fall are my change points. I'll be sticking with whatever name brand 10w30 is on sale at the time.
 
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Every 3K miles only started with the quick lube joints like Jiffy Lube trying to maximize their income. Every 5k is my interval and that will only be reduced if I have been wheeling in exceptionally dusty conditions.

Keep in mind that oil change intervals should be the same for conventional and synthetic motor oils since, as described above, the engine contaminates synthetic and conventional oils at the same rate. The oil filter gets dirty at the same rate too. Synthetic may theoretically last longer but it still gets dirty at the same rate. Oil filters can't filter out the really fine stuff or the naturally occurring combustion byproducts, acids, etc..
Dammit Jerry, you're going to make me change my oil every 5k and give up on amsoil aren't you lol. So, as far as these cheaper synthetics go, you don't have a preference?
 
The only experience I can attest to is Lucas. I use to Lucas on my 87 Grand Wagon. It had the AMC 360. I can say that after using Lucas, not for better performance, but for when I went to rebuild it. I have noticed that Lucas kept the entire Top end clean, so rebuilding was a breeze. But as far as oil changes, I use store brand oil and Purolator filter. My reasoning is that all crude oil comes out of the same ground. Its the additives that are added that make a difference. I have ran all the various filters offered and after they were changed out I would cut the filters in half and see. Pretty much all did the same thing...Filtered oil... None of the filters increased my HP by 20% or increased my engine life by 300 hours or whatever the marketing schemes they claimed. This is just my opinion. But oil is oil. When I worked at Jegs along time ago...it was Royal Purple vs. Lucas vs. Mobil1 etc. Too me its like Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge. its all preference. in the Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge, I just told them when they asked which truck I liked, I drive a Jeep. League of its own!
 
Lucas is all about the marketing. We sold a sh*tload of oil additive to the east indian truck drivers. It works! Our profit margin increased significantly! ...didn't do FA for the Cummins ISX's it was poured into tho.

In my locale, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is Ram approved and I can get it cheaper than most other synthetics. I run WIX XP filters and take it to the max 15,000km (9320mi) factory recommendations. The TJ gets 10W30 of whatever and 5000mi changes.
 
I always use Castrol GTX and substitute one quart with a quart of Risalone in my older engines....newer ones I use straight synthetic. My TJ gets Castrol and Risalone...my JKU gets straight synthetic. Old school...but I have run that in all my engines through the years including race engines. Whenever I worked on any of the engi es they were always clean. Just my humble opinion and what I do. The most important thing is to religiously change your oil and filter! Prolly doesnt matter what kind of oil you use as much...they are all good. Older engines dont like synthetics as much...the seals will leak more. Also older engi es will do better with a ZDP additive such as Risalone. Stay away from Fram filters...they are junk. Poor quality. This is all just my opinion and what I have learned over the years.
 
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Dammit Jerry, you're going to make me change my oil every 5k and give up on amsoil aren't you lol. So, as far as these cheaper synthetics go, you don't have a preference?
If it's a major well-known brand, it will be an excellent product. If I couldn't buy my usual, Valvoline, I'd be just as comfortable and happy with Mobil, Castrol, Pennzoil, Shell, Havoline, etc.. :)
 
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Stay away from Fram filters...they are junk. Poor quality. This is all just my opinion and what I have learned over the years.
I used to think the same thing... check out this post I made 6 years ago titled "Eating Crow".

http://*****************/forum/f9/e...-d-facility-dayton-ohio-1261517/#post12128510

Whoops it won't let me post a link to it... below are its text and photos. Its video link to my previously favorite anti-fram video included is now dead after so many years...

Eating crow, Fram oil filters, and my visit to Fram's R&D facility in Dayton Ohio (from April 2011)

The subject of oil filters, like conventional vs. synthetic oil, is an emotional subject for many. I have to admit that over the past 10-15 years, I was caught up in the oil filter debates and formed some very strong opinions… particularly about Fram’s oil filters. Based on what I had seen posted on the Internet, I became a fairly vocal anti-Fram oil filter type individual.

Personally, I had settled on AC-Delco and Purolator’s oil filters and they are what I had been running in all my vehicles. I was comfortable for many years with my opinion that AC-Delco, Purolator, Wix, etc. oil filters were good and that Fram was bad.

Much to my personal embarrassment, I recently learned that I have been wrong about Fram’s oil filters.

Through a friendship formed over several years with Jay Buckley, Technical Manager and Trainer for Autolite, a sister company to Fram, I was one of ten “journalists” (their word, not mine) invited to tour Fram’s Research and Development facilities in Dayton Ohio.

We were to be the first-ever outsiders to be granted access, much less be given a full in-depth tour with presentations by Fram’s top engineers and staff. The other nine members of my group were primarily made up of automotive magazine editors, with a university petroleum educator (a VERY impressive individual) in the group as well.

I was half-expecting a sales job on why Fram was so great. I did not get one.

Instead, we were introduced to Gary Bilski, Fram’s Chief Filtration Engineer who was to be our host and leader for the day’s tour of their R&D facility. Gary had spent the majority of his career with Fram and it soon became clear he is a true expert on oil (and air) filtration. Gary turned out to be no salesman there to turn us around on Fram’s filters. He is an engineer by education and doesn’t have a sales bone in his body.

We began the day in a conference room with introductions, an informal discussion on current filtration technology, and what we would be seeing. I came prepared to ask some very tough questions, complete with URL addresses and printouts of the various anti-Fram information I had bookmarked over the years.

It turned out I needn’t have bothered bringing my own ammunition. Fram’s engineers soon got to all that and began showing us on a large overhead display the same exact web pages and anti-Fram reports I was going to ask them about.

The very first anti-Fram video they brought up and showed to us was the toughest one and the one I was most anxious to ask about… this one:

I was shocked Gary Bilski brought that one up so soon in our meeting; it was a damning video that could not have been a tougher subject for them to have to address. Gary and several others from Fram spoke after the video was over and basically said the video was true and it was a very embarrassing one for them. What? Wow! Fram actually admitted what that video showed was factual and they were all greatly embarrassed over it. It was a tough one for them.

Then Gary further explained the video had to be showing an oil filter manufactured more than five years ago because such a filter could not make it past their current vastly improved Quality Control program. What is different now vs. before five years ago? Fram installed a series of computerized “machine vision” systems throughout their manufacturing facility. Their new machine vision systems now visually inspect every single filter throughout the manufacturing process for any variances and reject any with problems. If you know how machine vision systems work, you’ll understand they are highly effective at picking up on any abnormalities, even those barely perceptible to the human eye. So that type of problem, the non-secured filtration material, as well other manufacturing problems. will no longer make it past their significantly improved Quality Control system.

We watched and discussed other videos and it soon became clear that the others simply weren’t true. For example, one showed a really ugly sludge issue that was hysterically blamed on the Fram oil filter but it didn’t take a genius to realize the oil just hadn’t been changed in years.

One early subject we brought up was Fram’s use of cardboard end caps. Gary (again, their Chief Engineer) was prepared and covered that subject thoroughly. He explained how the pleated filtration material, which is flexible, is glued to the caps and that the added flex of the end caps prevents the pleated filtration material from pulling loose. Here’s a good example that adds credence to Gary’s explanation… think flexible control arms vs. non-flexible control arms that are well known to tear control arm mounts away from what they are welded to. They use a fiber end cap for the Extra Guard and Tough Guard simply because it holds better than if it were to be glued to inflexible metal end caps.

The below photo I took shows Fram’s Extra Guard, Tough Guard, and Extended Guard filters.

Fram does use steel end caps on the Extended Guard oil filter but get away with that because the pleated filtration material used inside the Extended Guard is reinforced with a metal screen. That type of filter is designed for those who don’t change their filter as frequently as most of us here do. What you gain in filtration life, you lose in filtration efficiency though… the Extended Guard has a 97% filtration efficiency vs. a 99% filtration efficiency with their Tough Guard filter. Their lowest-cost Extra Guard has a 95% filtration efficiency rating.

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How do they come up with that Efficiency rating? By adding very precise amounts of specific sizes (measured in microns) of laboratory-quality “dirt” (media) to the oil and then measuring what is left in the oil after the filtration process. The test equipment I saw gave direct readouts of the oil filter’s efficiency. You could actually see the various efficiencies of the filters being tested on lab equipment like below.

So for example, let's say they pour exactly 100 grams of 10 micron laboratory grade media into the oil to be filtered. After the test is complete, they measure how much of the 100 grams of the lab media is left. If 99 grams have been filtered out, the filter is said to have 99% efficiency.

You can also see the nitrile anti-drainback valve on top of the Extra Guard filter on the left and the silicone anti-drainback valve on the right in the Extended Guard. The center filter is the Tough Guard and it gets the silicone anti-drainback valve.

Nitrile is not as desirable to use in this job as silicone is but keep in mind Fram only use Nitrile in their entry-level lowest cost Extra Guard filter. Nitrile only starts to harden at around 258 degrees so for most conditions, it is ok. However, silicone is good to at least 400 degrees. For that reason, I personally would stick with an oil filter that uses a silicone anti-drainback valve. With Fram, that includes the Tough Guard, Extended Guard, and High Mileage filters.

But just so you know, I learned that even their nitrile anti-drain back valves are tested to over one million cycles.

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This is where, into the vat on the right, lab-grade “dirt” (various micron sizes like 4-20) is added and tested to see how much the filter can filter out. Out of sight to the right is the computer that runs the test and shows the filter’s efficiency directly on a digital readout.

CIMG4156.jpg



It was very interesting to note that Fram’s Tough Guard filter, which has a 99% filtration efficiency, was actually outperforming and out-filtering some far more expensive filters from Fram’s competitors. The R&D facility had a large assortment of the competition’s filters there being tested. Fram continually compares their filters against the competition which is very smart.

One of the more interesting series of tests were pressure tests that show how well the filter can contain the pressures oil filters can be subjected to. This particular piece of test equipment continually ups the oil pressure until the oil filter ruptures. We saw several cycles of tests and as I recall, the filters were withstanding 340+ psi of pressure before they blew out.

CIMG4139.jpg


You could see the can swelling up as the pressure increased, it was pretty cool. The blowout was pretty impressive, it made everyone jump.

The below test apparatus was a pressure cycling machine that continually and repeatedly cycles the oil pressure 0-300+ psi over one million times. Each location has a digital readout over the top of each filter and I could see they were already over the million cycle mark. The pressure cycles made the filter cans swell in and out… spooky appearing, kind of like a row of beating hearts.

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This is their Shake & Bake machine which violently shakes and vibrates oil filters as they are repeatedly cycled with low and high oil pressures.

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Oil pressures vary widely on our vehicles. It isn’t unusual to see 0-125 psi spikes, especially on cold days when the oil’s viscosity is thick. Other testing systems cycle the oil filters from -60 to >300f degrees.

There are a whole lot of various lab testing systems scattered throughout the facility and I honestly don’t know what many of them do, we didn’t have time to stop to watch each one of them work or have their functions explained.

But for your viewing pleasure, here are some of Fram’s other testing systems we saw as we were shown around.

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This is part of the group that was there with me that day …

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That’s me second from the right and standing next to me on the right (to my left) is Autolite Technical Manager, Trainer and all-around good guy Jay Buckley. Jay did all of Autolite’s ignition system and spark plug video training courses I have taken so it was very cool to have finally met him.

What was my final conclusion? As stated early above, that I had been wrong about Fram. It was, frankly, embarrassing since I had been so anti-Fram oil filter for so many years… as some here still are. After having seen first-hand all the testing they put their filters through, the efficiencies of their filters vs. some very expensive oil filters, I changed my mind about Fram. It was a good lesson that serves to reinforce the fact that not everything we read on the Internet is true or at least is greatly exaggerated.

I fully expect a few to accuse me of having sold out to Fram after my visit. That’s ok, I have seen first-hand what no one else here or anyone else outside of Fram has seen before. Again, my group of ten was the first outside group to have ever been invited to tour their R&D facility.

I too was anti-Fram and it wasn’t easy to do so but I have been turned around. I have to eat crow for a few others as well. @mrblaine has been telling me the same thing for years, that Fram’s filters are fine and that the internet claims are either false or grossly exaggerated. Blaine, you were right.

In closing, I did something 4 weeks ago that would have been unthinkable to me only a few months ago. My wife’s pride and joy, her Lexus LS-430, needed an oil change. It got its usual 5 quarts of 5W-30 Valvoline engine oil but this time, I installed a Fram Tough Guard oil filter. That crow I ate at the cash register that day while buying the Fram oil filter wasn’t the best I have tasted over the years. That isn’t to say I’ll only run Fram oil filters from now on but I will say I will happily run their Tough Guard oil filter in any of my vehicles. :)
 
I always had to add a quart of oil in my 04 Hemi Durango between oil changes at 3,000 miles until I picked up some Castrol GTX high millage on sale. I started to go 5,000 miles between changes, and never had to add oil. Now I use GTX 10-30 in the TJ also.
 
My reason for being anti fram is based on my personal experience. I had a fram filter fail on an 02 F150 and spread filter parts and dirt through the engine Fram did pay for the engine rebuild and made the situation right for me but it was due to poor quality control. Im sure they have improved quality and design since then but that was a very bad experience and has always stuck with me. They lost me as a customer. Again, just my personal experience and opinion.
 
Does/did Fram run any of their competitors filters through their testing ?
What company makes the Cryco/Jeep branded filters available at the dealerships ?
For the Cummins 'B' series that I run ...... Fleetguard
You'd be hard pressed to find any Fram filter in the commercial/industrial shops where I live.
Interesting video, and thanks for posting it ....
Sold on Fram ?
Not yet ....
 
Fram had every brand & type of competing filter imaginable running on their R&D test lines the day I was there Head Lice. What amazed me was many of the really expensive oil filters like from K&N, Wix, Mobil-1, etc. often only had 95% filtration efficiency ratings according to the test machines I was watching in real time. Fram's Tough Guard has a 99% filtration efficiency, which is not unusual, but it's better than many that are far more expensive which often only have 95% filtration efficiency ratings.

As said above, I used to be totally against Fram but no longer, I will run their Tough Guard when I can find it. It's a very well-built (really) filter that after eating a little crow, I grew to trust totally. I don't run their less expensive Extra Guard but then I won't run anyone's lowest-end filter. :)
 
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