What would you have told her?

[AndyG]

My 83 year old mom perpetually enables my meth addicted 64 year old brother.

There is no stopping it.

I’ve learned to listen and say little.

Her overreach is beyond belief.

He is in jail- apt to bond out anytime or be released in 30-60 days.

She build him a house when he was in prison for trying to kill dad. (I offered to assault either of them to qualify for a nice camper trailer)

She contacted me today -

She knows she won’t be here forever and she was wondering if I would look after him if she purchased a property close to me.

He’s become dangerous (possibly to her) and she’s trying to sell the place he has and get a fresh start.

After listening for a long time I told her that I really didn’t think she needed to worry about long-term solution as much as a short term solution if he gets released.

She would love to see him go into a treatment facility but who knows if that will really happen and you can’t count on it.

(Note added here) if it were left up to me to decide I would want her to do absolutely nothing- ever. To let him go his way and get out of the way but that’s not going to happen.

So I told her that the only thing I can think of was to start reaching out to some hotels that let people live by the week and have some options and a credit card ready along with an Uber to pick him up at the courthouse when he gets released-

At least he’ll be living somewhere where his behavior is conditional or they will call the cops.

This is in no way a long-term solution for anything.

As far as I’m concerned you don’t solve problems like him and if you’re smart you don’t try to solve problems like him.

He can’t coexist with good or bad people, There is no end to the crazy ideas he comes up with. Her last attempt to solve his problems was to rent a storage building to do mechanic work in. He decided to expand and cut his way through to the adjacent unit. A man’s got to have a place to work

So to sum it up the smart choice would be to not do anything but since I can’t seem to get her to that, Maybe this would give her time to continue the search for his next living arrangements if he gets released suddenly.

Any ideas welcome. He is shippable if anyone offers to take him.

 

[TJ Jim]

What? 64 years old and no wiser? I was hoping my 40 year old son would some day get wiser.

 

[AndyG]

What? 64 years old and no wiser? I was hoping my 40 year old son would some day get wiser.

I think my brothers ship has sailed.

I have been watching this since I was a child and I can tell you it has been an adventure.

I’ll tell you something that’s kind of dangerous- People get messed up and stay messed up and they get old enough to realize that even if they straighten up they’re not going to be able to get anywhere, so why try.

And of course the habits get stronger, And everything we do becomes our destiny.

 

[Lucheska]

I’ve learned to listen and say little.

Seems like a fair approach. Addictions really make a mess out of relationships, sorry to hear about that.

If you're spiritual, pray about it and for them. I will

 

[Rickyd]

My 83 year old mom perpetually enables my meth addicted 64 year old brother.

There is no stopping it.

I’ve learned to listen and say little.

Her overreach is beyond belief.

He is in jail- apt to bond out anytime or be released in 30-60 days.

She build him a house when he was in prison for trying to kill dad. (I offered to assault either of them to qualify for a nice camper trailer)

She contacted me today -

She knows she won’t be here forever and she was wondering if I would look after him if she purchased a property close to me.

He’s become dangerous (possibly to her) and she’s trying to sell the place he has and get a fresh start.

After listening for a long time I told her that I really didn’t think she needed to worry about long-term solution as much as a short term solution if he gets released.

She would love to see him go into a treatment facility but who knows if that will really happen and you can’t count on it.

(Note added here) if it were left up to me to decide I would want her to do absolutely nothing- ever. To let him go his way and get out of the way but that’s not going to happen.

So I told her that the only thing I can think of was to start reaching out to some hotels that let people live by the week and have some options and a credit card ready along with an Uber to pick him up at the courthouse when he gets released-

At least he’ll be living somewhere where his behavior is conditional or they will call the cops.

This is in no way a long-term solution for anything.

As far as I’m concerned you don’t solve problems like him and if you’re smart you don’t try to solve problems like him.

He can’t coexist with good or bad people, There is no end to the crazy ideas he comes up with. Her last attempt to solve his problems was to rent a storage building to do mechanic work in. He decided to expand and cut his way through to the adjacent unit. A man’s got to have a place to work

So to sum it up the smart choice would be to not do anything but since I can’t seem to get her to that, Maybe this would give her time to continue the search for his next living arrangements if he gets released suddenly.

Any ideas welcome. He is shippable if anyone offers to take him.

I would tell her if she bought property so he could be closer to me that I'd burn it to the ground

 

[AndyG]

I would tell her if she bought property so he could be closer to me that I'd burn it to the ground

You know she says she’s trying to keep him away from us and basically let him be her problem and he certainly has been.

And part of me was amazed that she had enough respect to ask and part of me was like well you know it’s a free country she can do whatever she wants.

What she was really looking for was buy in on his maintenance.

She is strongly bent on making sure he is cared for whether he wants it or not.

Right now my intention is never do anything I absolutely don’t have to do- And I will never make a promise to anyone that I don’t intend to keep.

If I could do anything for him I would. But I have not seen anything in decades and that leads me to think anybody can help.

 

[1o1proof]

I went thru this exact same thing with my family. Brother was abusive, addicted, in and out of "care" or jail for most all of my younger years (Im 10 years younger). This behavior continued into adulthood, and I couldn't see any changes on the horizon. Mom asked if I would take care of him when she passed, and my answer was no. There are so many programs, institutions, 1/2 way houses etc. he could be placed into, why would I bring this problem into my family. She passed, he got his inheritance, and I cut all ties. Last I heard he was in prison for assaulting an elderly man out west somewhere. Not bringing this drama into our house was one of the best decisions I have ever made.

 

[Mhass]

My family was very similar. The caretaker was my sister.
I told her she needed to go to al-anon.
It helped her detach a little and let my brother go.
We all chipped in and got him a real nice rehab for his second attempt at cleaning up his life. Hot rock massage, horseback riding, sunrise yoga, all that shit.
He bailed out of the car on the way to rehab and ran off.
Found him a few years later dead in a puddle of his own piss and vomit.
It's how those people go. Best you can hope for is they don't take anyone else with them.
Help your mom, if you can.

 

[AndyG]

You know these above 2
post are reality. This stuff don’t end well.

Not to sound preachy but the law of sowing and reaping works really good if you stay out of the way.

The main reason I’m not worried about long term is I doubt he will survive the year if he doesn’t straighten up.

I can’t even imagine the money she spent trying to finance this stupidity. She told me the other day his inheritance was really dwindling. I was like good Lord mother how much money do you have? I can count 300 grand she has spent on his sorry rear end right now.

Really the truth is she’s got a problem on her hands and she doesn’t really have a lot of options on how to deal with it,
She created this.

Here is where the story gets a little bit more interesting-

So she went cheap on the property that she bought seven years ago and it is in the worst neighborhood you’ve ever seen.

He’s reached a point where he’s not going to survive in there, And while he’s in jail she’s trying to clean the place up and put it on the market.

She’s got vehicles that have been abandoned and vehicles he has pawned the title to, squatters, a meth lab, you name it.

And she’s got a chunk of cash on hand but she really doesn’t have enough to purchase something else and she strongly intending to do that thinking she’s going to sell this place and recoup her money.

It’s not even sellable at any price. I hate to say this and I wouldn’t have anything to do with this but the only way that this could work out is if somebody burned to the ground which will probably happen when some of these people get ran off.


At least then she could get some insurance money because she’s going to get hardly anything for the lot.

-
you know if you don’t listen to people the chances of making good decisions are much less. “I got this “ has been her. MO got decades. Well she sure does now.

At one point she was going to send him to counseling and pay for it. I told her mother if you give them your idiot and $40,000 you’re going to get your idiot back with a better haircut- We can accomplish this with about 25 bucks.

I have toned it down a little bit since then

 

[JMT]

What she was really looking for was buy in on his maintenance.

She is strongly bent on making sure he is cared for whether he wants it or no

I would have said the same thing a year or more ago when this came up:

You are dealing with motherly instinct that has never been put in check by a good man.

I live with the same thing in my mom who perpetuates my youngest brothers issues.

They will likely never understand that providing for them is not helping them but enabling them.

You know this, so I don’t really need to spell it out.

Any concession on her part will be better for you.

 

[Mhass]

if you give them your idiot and $40,000 you’re going to get your idiot back with a better haircut- We can accomplish this with about 25 bucks.

Sad but true. The BEST rehab centers have around a 30% success rate for "long term sobriety", which means, they dont re-offend for 5 years. Reality is the odds suck for addicts and alcoholics. They'll break your bank, then break your heart.
The best gift you can give an alcoholic is to let reality kick their ass so hard they get the gift of desperation and become willing to change.

 

[1o1proof]

You are dealing with motherly instinct that has never been put in check by a good man.

I think it is more than that, I cut ties with a brother...I can't imagine how hard it would be to do the same to your kid.

They will likely never understand that providing for them is not helping them but enabling them.


This is 100% a true statement.

 

[AndyG]

I would have said the same thing a year or more ago when this came up:

You are dealing with motherly instinct that has never been put in check by a good man.

I live with the same thing in my mom who perpetuates my youngest brothers issues.

They will likely never understand that providing for them is not helping them but enabling them.

You know this, so I don’t really need to spell it out.

Good post.

I think one of the reasons dad left was because he couldn’t stop it- It made him so mad.

She would give my brother money behind my dad’s back and he was pretty tight with money anyway. He made Dave Ramsey look like he needed to get his crap together.

She is in a relationship now that seems to be the first time anyone has ever been able to get her to rethink some of this-

And I’ll let her talk for a long long time and finally I was able to get her to be a little bit receptive rather than just casting down every suggestion.

That was progress-


At the same time what kind of plan in the world is it to get somebody in a motel room to keep them out of your hair for a week- I was like good Lord is this the best I can come up with ?

First thing I’m trying to do is get her to slow down on dumping a lot of money into another property when she’s already got one she can’t do anything with.

And for some reason everything she tends to look at seems to be about the same set of circumstances that somebody is trying to get out of - She paid a deposit on one place and before she closed the sale they were stealing the sheet rock off the walls.

Really what is going on here is she’s trying to relocate him - Not wanting to accept that he takes the problem with him everywhere he goes.

For the most part he has been her entire purpose. She would cling to everything every specialist will tell her as long as it wasn’t anything near the truth-

- He has a chemical imbalance- She locked on to this for several years and she wore it out. First of all mother, exactly which chemical is out of balance? Even top experts will tell you quick that concept can’t be proven. I always said chemicals were involved ....

- he has aspergers- How in the world do you not figure this out til over 60?

- he has autism- again, never saw any signs mom. I’ve never heard of an autistic person that could paint a show car.

- its “that bipolar”- This went on and on for years - mom, the earth is bipolar. Staying awake for two weeks and sleeping for two weeks is not “that bipolar”. Its meth.

Anyway- now we’re getting to the end, all that has ran it’s course. She’s 83 she told me today- her health is failing naturally, her real money is in an iron clad trust designed to prevent her from spending a dime on him, and she doesn’t gave a clue how to shake him.

She finally realizes she can’t fix him, But really the problem now is she has a dependent 63 year old son on her hands and he is out of control.

I can tell you now it won’t be long before I can get back on this thread and post something new and eventful with this. I sense critical mass.

 

[AndyG]

Sad but true. The BEST rehab centers have around a 30% success rate for "long term sobriety", which means, they dont re-offend for 5 years. Reality is the odds suck for addicts and alcoholics. They'll break your bank, then break your heart.
The best gift you can give an alcoholic is to let reality kick their ass so hard they get the gift of desperation and become willing to change.

Man that needs to be in the constitution.

I heard somebody really smart say one time-

“If you’re constantly trying to nullify the law of sowing and reaping in the life of your child, you are acting contrary to the will of God.”

If you look at how life works you can’t deny there is truth in that.

 

[JMT]

Good post.

I think one of the reasons dad left was because he couldn’t stop it- It made him so mad.

She would give my brother money behind my dad’s back and he was pretty tight with money anyway. He made Dave Ramsey look like he needed to get his crap together.

She is in a relationship now that seems to be the first time anyone has ever been able to get her to rethink some of this-

And I’ll let her talk for a long long time and finally I was able to get her to be a little bit receptive rather than just casting down every suggestion.

That was progress-


At the same time what kind of plan in the world is it to get somebody in a motel room to keep them out of your hair for a week- I was like good Lord is this the best I can come up with ?

First thing I’m trying to do is get her to slow down on dumping a lot of money into another property when she’s already got one she can’t do anything with.

And for some reason everything she tends to look at seems to be about the same set of circumstances that somebody is trying to get out of - She paid a deposit on one place and before she closed the sale they were stealing the sheet rock off the walls.

Really what is going on here is she’s trying to relocate him - Not wanting to accept that he takes the problem with him everywhere he goes.

For the most part he has been her entire purpose. She would cling to everything every specialist will tell her as long as it wasn’t anything near the truth-

- He has a chemical imbalance- She locked on to this for several years and she wore it out. First of all mother, exactly which chemical is out of balance? Even top experts will tell you quick that concept can’t be proven. I always said chemicals were involved ....

- he has aspergers- How in the world do you not figure this out til over 60?

- he has autism- again, never saw any signs mom. I’ve never heard of an autistic person that could paint a show car.

- its “that bipolar”- This went on and on for years - mom, the earth is bipolar. Staying awake for two weeks and sleeping for two weeks is not “that bipolar”. Its meth.

Anyway- now we’re getting to the end, all that has ran it’s course. She’s 83 she told me today- her health is failing naturally, her real money is in an iron clad trust designed to prevent her from spending a dime on him, and she doesn’t gave a clue how to shake him.

She finally realizes she can’t fix him, But really the problem now is she has a dependent 63 year old son on her hands and he is out of control.

I can tell you now it won’t be long before I can get back on this thread and post something new and eventful with this. I sense critical mass.

Meth. That one word says it all. I've seen it. I've seen them go from meth to prison to alcohol to prison to homosexuality to prison and so on and so forth. It's just one drama after the next. And all along the way was the enabling mom who couldn't see that she's given in over and over and over and just let them do whatever they want. No responsibility. No care about anyone but self. Absolutely nothing. And when I pointed it out, I was the one who couldn't see. Ok. I tried to listen. It was crazy talk.

 

[TJ Jim]

What is it with mothers and their refusal to stop enabling? My son has gotten his mother’s social security number disguised as the only way you can visit me in prison is if they have it. How dumb can a person be? By purpose I’m estranged from both of them, but dang. What can a prison group do with your ss number?

 

[AndyG]

What is it with mothers and their refusal to stop enabling? My son has gotten his mother’s social security number disguised as the only way you can visit me in prison is if they have it. How dumb can a person be? By purpose I’m estranged from both of them, but dang. What can a prison group do with your ss number?

No telling - maybe sell it to the outside for identity theft.

Mom bought the “I need protection” line
When Rod was in prison. The warden finally sat her down and said mam, he needs nothing here.

The authorities try to keep her away from him.

Help that kills.

 

[John Cooper]

@AndyG this place is local to me. Don't know if you're brother would even go, or you're mom would want him this far from her.

They do real good work and most of the staff are former addicts.

https://www.ahandupministries.org/

 

[ColoJeep]

Right now my intention is never do anything I absolutely don’t have to do- And I will never make a promise to anyone that I don’t intend to keep.

Family is great ! , unless you have one . The problem is not your brother . Your mom needs a come to Jesus type talk , however this likely has happened and fell on deaf ears. I've been where you are AndyG and it totally sucks. In the above quote , you answered you own question. May God be with you my brother.

 

[AndyG]

Family is great ! , unless you have one . The problem is not your brother . Your mom needs a come to Jesus type talk , however this likely has happened and fell on deaf ears. I've been where you are AndyG and it totally sucks. In the above quote , you answered you own question. May God be with you my brother.

Yes it’s been pretty frustrating over the years because she knows we don’t approve and she only tells us what we want to hear and tries to convince us that he’s really OK and we are watching her spend money like a drunken sailor on him.

Yesterday she said she was in the area when we got out of church and that turned out to be what I thought, she was out our way looking for a property for him.

Bless her heart she doesn’t even realize he knows people in his hometown and he’s just going to get in trouble even quicker.

There’s no question that relocating him is not the answer for anything- he’s going to take the problem with him when he goes.

I’m like “look here train wreck -this ain’t your station”

Let me say a little bit about enabling- It’s really good for some things to just not ever get started. I understand bailing a 16-year-old out one time-maybe twice at most.

To the enabler what it looks like is a grandiose means of caring and helping.

To the enabled what it looks like is a free ride.

The worst thing you can do for somebody that makes bad choices is take care of all their basic needs- Then they are not forced to work to survive-

One time she told me she didn’t buy him drugs or alcohol. I said mom do you not realize when you pay for everything else that you’re making it easier for him to spring for that junk.

“ I never thought about it that way”

Well, you should have - -about 30 years ago- and stopped.

You know the thing that amazes me is the level that this is not working at- And of course it never has.

And here she is out with her last $50,000 cash looking to repeat the same thing she just did with a few hundred thousand dollars that he has ruined.

And to answer the question will I go check on my brother if she settles him up our way-
I seriously doubt it. You never know when you’re going to walk into a situation like that and end up with a bullet in the head just being at the wrong place at the wrong time.