Why Do People Dislike Skyjacker Lifts?

[Stox5225]

So, just out of boredom and curiosity (and I’ve had a few beers ), I want some insight into why people dislike Skyjacker lifts for our Jeeps, as more of an entry lift kit. Not a super duper off-roader, but for the average guy with half a grand to spend on a lift because he wants 33-35 in tires and to hit some decently challenging trails and it’s his DD.

I bought my kit in ‘09. It was like just shy of 600 bucks from Quadratec (another topic to discuss, but that’s for another thread). I installed in a car port in the middle of summer and used ratchet straps to get the transmission skid plate to realign with the holes in the frame after the drop bars went in. Also, the front track bar requires measuring and drilling on the OEM mount on the front axle. Our measuring must have been sufficient because I’ve had it over 80 multiple times. I used to travel from NC to CT twice a year for about 3 years.

I have never experienced death wobble. I have never had flex issues (I have recently been enlightened on the lack of flex with tubular control arms. Totally makes sense and I can see getting more flex with this kit with better arms) and my ride has always been ... like a Jeep. Stiff especially with a lift. Yet I see Skyjacker getting a bad wrap from several threads here on the TJ Forum. My question is simply, why? For 600 bucks I have had the time of my life in the woods, never broken anything, cleared MANY obstacles that amazed some people with beefier Jeeps, and the only issue I have is I need new control arm bushings.

Thanks for the conversation


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[jjvw]

How much lift? Which kit are we talking about?

 

[AndyG]

Bushings were mush in mine ....and the 2 part bushing design was not impressive.

I went to a rough country long arm kit for Oem 1 ton dodge bushings. ...more so than the long arm.

You can’t imagine the difference quality hardware makes til you drive it.

But....if it works and you are happy....that’s what counts.

 

[JMT]

Why does Dominoes pizza get a bad rap? I’m not trying to be a super athlete or something. I just want to do a little jogging here and there. I don’t have a lot of money to spend on food.

I’ve been eating it for years and it’s always worked good for me. I had energy after I ate it. I’ve never had serious bowel problems after I ate it. Can someone please tell me why the domino’s pizza sucks compared to the $20 pizza at the finest Italian restaurant?

It’s simply a matter of engineering, materials, quality control, etc...

 

[Stox5225]

How much lift? Which kit are we talking about?

Just their 4”.


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[Chris]

Lifts are a relatively simple thing. They're usually made up of springs, shocks, and control arms.

That being said, springs aren't what you should pay attention to. Even Rough Country makes decent springs.

What it comes down to is the quality of shocks being used as well as the control arms. Rough Country, Skyjacker, and the other cheap brands all use garbage quality shocks. The ride quality is piss poor, so you're basically wasting money on pogo sticks.

The other issue is the quality of the control arms. Typically they aren't adjustable, which is okay for the most part, except you'll need adjustable rear upper arms if you want to run a SYE / CV driveshaft combo (unless you're okay with a transfer case drop).

In addition, they almost always use low quality control arm bushings such as polyurethane ones that degrade much faster than say a Johnny Joint.

If you're only planning on mall crawling, I see nothing wrong with Skyjacker other than the crap quality shocks. If you don't care about ride quality, Skyjacker is fine. Believe me when I say though, their lifts ride like crap, and it's almost entirely due to the crappy shocks that come with their kits.

 

[jjvw]

This is more interesting than simple brand bashing.

Here is the Skyjacker 4" economy kit. $631
https://www.quadratec.com/p/skyjack...4Zi1QwKTXywDrJdcp6Kvlm2XStR1-4axoCJWcQAvD_BwE

Here is the Zone 4.25" Combo Kit. $557
https://www.extremeterrain.com/zone...ge&gclid=CKGP9_G2kd0CFa6XxQIdJx8Azw&gclsrc=ds

There are three areas of design that need to be discussed and compared between these two kits.

-SJs inclusion of a dropped pitman arm.

-How does Zone create 4.25" of lift without lowering the transfer case?

-Why did Jeep use a stamped steel control arm?

Discuss!

 

[Chris]

That dropped pitman arm on the Skyjacker lift just shows that it's a poorly designed kit.

I'm unsure of how Zone can sell a 4.25" lift without including a transfer case drop. Better yet, I know how much I had to drop the transfer case with just 2.5" of lift, so with 4.25" of lift I have to assume your transfer case is hanging really, really low!

Those Skyjacker control arms look like they might not have as much misalignment as the factory control arms. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[KCsTJ]

Why does Dominoes pizza get a bad rap? I’m not trying to be a super athlete or something. I just want to do a little jogging here and there. I don’t have a lot of money to spend on food.

I’ve been eating it for years and it’s always worked good for me. I had energy after I ate it. I’ve never had serious bowel problems after I ate it. Can someone please tell me why the domino’s pizza sucks compared to the $20 pizza at the finest Italian restaurant?

It’s simply a matter of engineering, materials, quality control, etc...

It's fine. I worked @ Dominoes as a 2nd job when my daughter was born.
Pizza joints get their food from a central place. It's a whole lotta marketing.

 

[jjvw]

That dropped pitman arm on the Skyjacker lift just shows that it's a poorly designed kit. ....

But why? What do you know that SJ hasn't figured out since the Clinton administration?

...

I'm unsure of how Zone can sell a 4.25" lift without including a transfer case drop. Better yet, I know how much I had to drop the transfer case with just 2.5" of lift, so with 4.25" of lift I have to assume your transfer case is hanging really, really low!
...

Did you have a motor mount lift? Was this on a Rubicon?

...
Those Skyjacker control arms look like they might not have as much misalignment as the factory control arms. Maybe I'm wrong?

Not wrong. Why are the factory arms able to misalign further than SJ arms?

 

[Sancho]

I think zone gets away with no tc drop by using a mml.

 

[jjvw]

I think zone gets away with no tc drop by using a mml.

Correct. What does the MML do? How else do they minimize the rear drive shaft angles, while still creating similar tire clearances as SJ's 4" spring lift?

 

[KCsTJ]

Correct. What does the MML do? How else do they minimize the rear drive shaft angles, while still creating similar tire clearances as SJ's 4" spring lift?

I wonder if you could eliminate the mml by raising the tranny a bit by stacking a couple washers like @Ranger_b0b did, between the skid and the bottom of the tranny...don't know but it would work theoretically.

 

[jjvw]

I wonder if you could eliminate the mml by raising the tranny a bit by stacking a couple washers like @Ranger_b0b did, between the skid and the bottom of the tranny...don't know but it would work theoretically.

That would raise the wrong end of the drivetrain. I suspect that Ranger_b0b stacked washers between the skid and frame. This is a transfer case drop. However, the clever design here is that the drop is only as much as is necessary to eliminate vibes.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I wonder if you could eliminate the mml by raising the tranny a bit by stacking a couple washers like @Ranger_b0b did, between the skid and the bottom of the tranny...don't know but it would work theoretically.

To me a MML is always preferable to dropping the skidplate.

 

[Chris]

But why? What do you know that SJ hasn't figured out since the Clinton administration?

Unless you're dropping the track bar along with it, you shouldn't need to drop the pitman arm either. Dropping the pitman arm would only make sense if you had one of those track bar drop brackets installed along with it, as you'd then be changing the geometry of everything.

Of course there's other situations as well, like let's say that someone was installing an 8" lift of something. Of course at that point, you'd probably be running full width axles, hydro assist, and you'd be well beyond where most of us are in terms of builds.

Did you have a motor mount lift? Was this on a Rubicon?

No, I didn't have a MML, and it was on a Rubicon. Maybe I'm not the best example.

Not wrong. Why are the factory arms able to misalign further than SJ arms?

The factory control arms may be stamped steel, but they have that u-shaped channel which allows the arm to flex and twist to some degree, allowing the axle to articulate / flex more, without adding additional stress on the control arm mounting brackets.

This is my understanding of it at least. I'd rather run fixed length stock control arms than those fixed length Skyjacker arms. You'd probably be more likely to rip a control arm mounting bracket off with one of those things. Not saying it would happen the first time you flexed, but I suspect if you repeatedly did it, it could cause a weak point over time.

 

[Mike_H]

That would raise the wrong end of the drivetrain. I suspect that Ranger_b0b stacked washers between the skid and frame. This is a transfer case drop. However, the clever design here is that the drop is only as much as is necessary to eliminate vibes.

No, @KCsTJ had it right. I raised my Transmission in relation to the skid. However, I was chasing a very specific problem so I wouldn't recommend it as a general fix for vibrations. I was experimenting a bit. I had installed a 1" MML with my 2" spring lift and 1.25" BL. I was getting driveline vibs at 60-65 mph. When I measured my angles, There was a difference between the T-case and Yoke (as I knew there would be) I figured with the Rubicon and its longer DS I could get away with running the Tcase and yoke at the same angle, so I put the washers in there to try it out. It works. However, while I was under there, I also found that one of my U-joints was on its way out...so I replaced that as well. Not sure which "fixed" the issue, tho I suspect it was the U-joint. I may pull the washers back out just to see what happens.

 

[jjvw]

Here is what we have determined...

Skyjacker's inclusion of a dropped pitman arm, by itself, will disrupt the steering geometry creating bump steer. Skyjacker has been screwing up people's steering for 2 decades. The internet forums have been fixing their lazy stupidity for nearly that long.

Zone divides the lift between spring and body. This minimizes the rear drive shaft angle. Additionally, Zone uses a motor mount lift to further reduce the rear drive shaft angle. This multi part solution to creating clearance reduces the likelihood of needing a transmission drop. If one is needed, it will be less than the SJ dropped transmission bracket.

The factory control arms use a bonded rubber bushing compared to Skyjacker's split rubber bushing. I'm less familiar with the meaningful differences between the two. While I don't believe this to be the case, let's assume the two have the same amount of misalignment capability.

When the axle flexes and the rubber bushing reaches the end of it's misalignment capability, the Skyjacker design reaches bind. Now that force is transferred to the rigid arm, which is then transferred to the rigid control arm mounts. If the force is great enough, something will fail.

The factory arms are designed to twist, which means that the flexing axle can misalign both the rubber bushing and twist the arm to a far greater degree before something reaches bind. Understanding this ability to twist is why Zone does not include replacement arms in this budget minded kit.

The Zone kit also includes a raised rear track bar bracket. This will mostly center the rear axle. And it raises the roll center of the Jeep, which will minimize a small amount a body roll through better geometry.

These are all reasons why the less expensive Zone 4.25" Combo kit is a very thoughtfully designed budget kit.

Another hidden benefit to the Zone kit is that it is a great starting point for a larger, more comprehensive build. The addition of adjustable track bars and control arms does not have you replacing parts of the kit. The body lift and motor mount lift are a set up for a tummy tuck.

So far, there has been no comparing of shocks between the two kits. I have not used either, so I can't comment.

The bottom line is that for less money than other budget kits, Zone provides better results and creates a solid platform for an even better build without having to start over to the degree that other cheap kits often require.

If I were to give a reason for why I dislike Skyjacker, it is because they understand marketing more than they understand suspension.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Well done jivw. I especially liked your very true comment about Skyjacker screwing up people's TJ steering for two decades. How true, how unbelievable that they're still including that dropped Pitman arm in their kits.

 

[jjvw]

Thanks. Even for those who don't use the Zone kit, it is very helpful to understand why it works. The concepts used to create tire clearance and minimize the rear drive shaft angle are transferable to nearly all types of builds.

The early versions of my build were nearly identical to Zone, but were pieced together from other brands. The usual recommendation we give for running 35s is, at its heart, a combination lift. If you are still hung up on LCoG (which you shouldn't specifically be! ), then you want a combination lift.