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Why does Jeep use Torx?

FadeToGray

Member
Feb 4, 2019
80
NH
So... why does Jeep use Torx for everything on the Jeep?

These things seem like they were created by some sadistic engineer with a fetish for stripped bolts or they own lots of shares of ez-out stock.

Is there some advantage to them over another type of fastener?
 
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Chris

Administrator
Staff Member
Sep 28, 2015
37,106
Salem, Oregon
Why even hex? Wouldn’t it make things so much less likely to strip out if they were squares instead of hex? I mean 6 sides is a lot closer to a circle than 4.
 
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mrblaine

TJ Expert
Supporting Member
Nov 20, 2015
4,794
Quail Valley, CA
Torx and Torx Plus are superior drive styles compared to conventional styles that they replaced. The increase in surface area between the sides of the driver and the drive hole is significant and produces higher torque transfer to the fastener head near zero cam out.

If you were to replace the Torx with Allen or Phillips drive, it becomes apparent instantly why it is used. The main reason for any Torx related issues is almost always related to issues with high surface area contact under a flat head and/or the wrong size driver being used. If you are using a bit to remove a painted fastener like on the tailgate and you don't have to tap the bit in with a hammer, you are likely using the wrong size which will lead to problems or compound them.

No one who uses Torx drive construction fasteners ever says anything except "why did it take them so long to come out with these?".

Until you take a 4" long screw and run it into a wood beam standing on your tiptoes using one hand and a small impact driver, it will be hard to understand just how superior they really are. Another reason is they are low effort to install on the assembly line and will keep the worker from being fatigued which leads to stripped or ruined installations.
 

mrblaine

TJ Expert
Supporting Member
Nov 20, 2015
4,794
Quail Valley, CA
I think the engineer that came up with this was looking for the bolt that was the quickest and easiest to assemble everything and had no idea that anything would ever have to come apart again.
I put together a lot of form work with 3 and 3 1/2" Torx construction screws, poured the concrete and then removed all the screws. We didn't strip out the head on a single one and we re-used them several times on other work. They rule all other fastener drive styles for flat head screws.
 

Paul Ruggles

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 13, 2019
43
Midland, MI
They work well on assembly lines. The bolts stay on the tool fairly snug allowing quick assembly.

They do suck for us, but I get why use them. A hammer type impact driver will usually get them out if they are not already buggered up.

You want to really get pissed? I build machines for a living and I despise flat heads and button heads. After flatheads are in for a while, anything smaller than a 6 mm (5mm hex) gets driven out with a center punch.

If you take a center punch, make a good heavy dimple on the outside edge of the head, then lean the punch over slightly and tap in a loosening direction, they usually will come out. This can also work on button heads and torx.
 

rasband

LJR
Supporting Member
Sep 11, 2018
631
Denver, CO
I’ve stripped way more phillips than hex or torx, I’m not super unhappy with them (other than having to source better quality bits).
 

Mike_H

Rust Belt Heavyweight
Supporting Member
Feb 28, 2017
4,266
Grand Rapids, MI, United States
Torx is a very secure design for driving screws automatically. They have round heads, so they feed nicely in the automatic drivers that are used in assembly. When the process engineer design they assembly lines, they aren't thinking about disassembly. Their only focus is getting that screw in the right hole and to the proper torque, 100% of the time. For that, they are outstanding. The drivers engage quickly and don't slip once they are in.

I assume you're trying to remove some of the flatheads? Those lock up due to the amount of surface area of the cone. Lil bit of heat should get them freed up. Also, make sure the torx socket on the bolt is good and clean. You want to get as much engagement with the wrench as possible. Press hard into the bolt. Impact screwdrivers work really well too... The ones you smack work a hammer.


Jeep isn't the only OEM to use them. Take a look sometime. They are everywhere.
 

Mike_H

Rust Belt Heavyweight
Supporting Member
Feb 28, 2017
4,266
Grand Rapids, MI, United States
And rightly so. They are the better drive style for flat head screws.
Yes. I spent 5 years as a process engineer designing outside rearview mirror assembly lines for the top 5 auto OEM companies. Million dollar projects. Every screw we drove was torx, either internal or external. It was all done automatically. Driving screws was one of those things you absolutely must get right on FMVSS dictated features, such as mirror actuators. The amount of error detection and error proofing included would surprise most people, I think. Our statistical capability on those features exceeded 2.1 cpk... Which is better than 6 sigma quality. We couldn't have done it with out torx heads.
 
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Drizit

TJ Addict
Feb 18, 2018
1,210
Canada
I've sheared several torx drivers without stripping the fasteners, I've stripped 2 fasteners that I can remember (it may have been my fault for not putting the driver in quite right as I was out of position and not paying enough attention) I've rounded off nuts and bolts doing the same thing. I suppose I've had more bolts round off when I knew I was doing it right than I have torx but I'd still rather work on a rusty hex bolt that a rusty torx bolt. I may destroy the bolt on ether one but the socket is less likely to shatter than the torx driver is to snap. Also all wood screws should be Robertson.

--
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
 
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steelhd

TJ Enthusiast
Jan 1, 2019
120
Eastern WA
If you are unhappy removing the Jeep's body mounted TORX head screws you would be have a stroke level angry if they were any other style for reasons already covered plus the damage that would occur to your paint.
 
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mrblaine

TJ Expert
Supporting Member
Nov 20, 2015
4,794
Quail Valley, CA
I've sheared several torx drivers without stripping the fasteners, I've stripped 2 fasteners that I can remember (it may have been my fault for not putting the driver in quite right as I was out of position and not paying enough attention) I've rounded off nuts and bolts doing the same thing. I suppose I've had more bolts round off when I knew I was doing it right than I have torx but I'd still rather work on a rusty hex bolt that a rusty torx bolt. I may destroy the bolt on ether one but the socket is less likely to shatter than the torx driver is to snap. Also all wood screws should be Robertson.

--
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
The thing that most miss is driver or head size relative to shank size. Comparatively, a hex head cap screw is at a minimum double, triple the size of the shank diameter in surface area. It is fairly easy to break a 3/8" bolt when it has a 9/16" hex drive head on it. It is almost impossible to break the head off of a 5/16" flat head screw before it strips out unless it is a low tensile screw. The worst we run into are Allen drive alloy flat head cap screws. It is practically guaranteed you will have to weld something to the head to remove it because the driver will break or the hex will strip out when they are rusty or problematic.

Trivia- the length of a flat on a hex nut is very close to the diameter of the hole.
 

AndyG

TJ Addict
Supporting Member
Jul 30, 2018
2,474
Alabama
Torx and Torx Plus are superior drive styles compared to conventional styles that they replaced. The increase in surface area between the sides of the driver and the drive hole is significant and produces higher torque transfer to the fastener head near zero cam out.

If you were to replace the Torx with Allen or Phillips drive, it becomes apparent instantly why it is used. The main reason for any Torx related issues is almost always related to issues with high surface area contact under a flat head and/or the wrong size driver being used. If you are using a bit to remove a painted fastener like on the tailgate and you don't have to tap the bit in with a hammer, you are likely using the wrong size which will lead to problems or compound them.

No one who uses Torx drive construction fasteners ever says anything except "why did it take them so long to come out with these?".

Until you take a 4" long screw and run it into a wood beam standing on your tiptoes using one hand and a small impact driver, it will be hard to understand just how superior they really are. Another reason is they are low effort to install on the assembly line and will keep the worker from being fatigued which leads to stripped or ruined installations.
I second and third this .

My remodeling company uses tons of 2”-4.5” T 25 Torx drive screws , they never “cam out” and don’t require much drive direction hand force as they are side loading the fastener head far more than Phillips.

Milwaukee fluid drive impacts and torx= fastener success .

Strip out a Phillips in an ipe deck and you have the start of a bad day.

Austrians are pretty sharp, the 10 mm head on their KTM dirt bikes accept a torx also.

I’m a fan of torx , have no issue paying for quality GRK fasteners .
 
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mrblaine

TJ Expert
Supporting Member
Nov 20, 2015
4,794
Quail Valley, CA
I second and third this .

My remodeling company uses tons of 2”-4.5” T 25 Torx drive screws , they never “cam out” and don’t require much drive direction hand force as they are side loading the fastener head far more than Phillips.
We used to do "custom" kitchen box installations for kitchen remodels. I've hung hundreds of uppers with 3" Phillips drive drywall screws. More times than I care to remember using both hands to push on the screw-gun and someone behind me pushing on my shoulders to help get enough pressure to stop cam out on those damn things.

Milwaukee fluid drive impacts and torx= fastener success .
I've got both, the Surge and the Fuel 1/4" impact driver. I'm not sure either one is better yet and I've used the crap out of both.

Strip out a Phillips in an ipe deck and you have the start of a bad day.
In Newport Beach once, a lady had us screw down 500 square feet of redwood decking to her concrete porch. We ran small stringers for an air gap and 2 Phillips drive 3 1/2" Tapcons across the face at 16" on center. Practically stand on the screw gun to get them in all the way. Never again.

I’m a fan of torx , have no issue paying for quality GRK fasteners .
I use lots and lots of GRK stuff. Surprisingly, I have never had a bad fastener in any of the boxes. Very high QC.