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Wildman's TJ is getting a face lift

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Wildman

Wildman

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I took the day off from working on stuff. My leg was sore and had a small hot spot on it so I figured I'd give it a day off. The lock tabs are supposed to be here today so tomorrow would be a good day to finish the gears. And then once the crush sleeve eliminator kit arrives I can set the preload on the pinion. It means I can't set the carrier in the axle for good until then. This is the only drawback.

Also I know it's been DEBATED more than once on here and other forums about if using a case spreader is required when setting up gears. I've worked in shops that didn't have one and then in other shops that did. When I first learned how to setup gears I never used a case spreader. BUT and this is the kicker I've read many cases of people with ARB lockers who didn't use a case spreader when installing the locker and had failures later. So about 10-15 years ago I was setting up gears for a lot of friends in my club and between all of them they bought the bearing puller, 20 ton press & the case spreader for me as payment for doing all this work. It's nice to have the needed tools and equipment to do this kind of work.

I know in a recent thread it was being talked about if installing gears was VooDoo or not. And as pointed out No It Isn't. It takes some specialized tools & shop equipment. You need a dial indicator to measure backlash and to measure the spread of the case if using a case spreader. Then you need either a micrometer or caliper to measure shim thickness with. Also a inch lb torque wrench. It needs to be a dial indicator type but you can use a beam style torque wrench also. And then you need gear marking paint. A bearing puller set is also helpful and then a hyd press. This is the basic set of extra tools you need and I'm sure there is stuff I'm forgetting.

I'll try to take pictures as I'm doing the gears and explain what I'm doing. The biggest thing about doing gears is that you take your time and then make sure things are exact. You can't rush this process.
 

Irun

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I'll try to take pictures as I'm doing the gears and explain what I'm doing. The biggest thing about doing gears is that you take your time and then make sure things are exact. You can't rush this process.
This will be helpful! Even though I have all the tools you mentioned, I haven't done gears in almost 20 years. However, I'm about to dive back in and do both the TJ and LJ. That is, if I can ever get the Eaton eLocker I've been waiting on. The HP30 will be first up!
 

Blackjack

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I took the day off from working on stuff. My leg was sore and had a small hot spot on it so I figured I'd give it a day off. The lock tabs are supposed to be here today so tomorrow would be a good day to finish the gears. And then once the crush sleeve eliminator kit arrives I can set the preload on the pinion. It means I can't set the carrier in the axle for good until then. This is the only drawback.

Also I know it's been DEBATED more than once on here and other forums about if using a case spreader is required when setting up gears. I've worked in shops that didn't have one and then in other shops that did. When I first learned how to setup gears I never used a case spreader. BUT and this is the kicker I've read many cases of people with ARB lockers who didn't use a case spreader when installing the locker and had failures later. So about 10-15 years ago I was setting up gears for a lot of friends in my club and between all of them they bought the bearing puller, 20 ton press & the case spreader for me as payment for doing all this work. It's nice to have the needed tools and equipment to do this kind of work.

I know in a recent thread it was being talked about if installing gears was VooDoo or not. And as pointed out No It Isn't. It takes some specialized tools & shop equipment. You need a dial indicator to measure backlash and to measure the spread of the case if using a case spreader. Then you need either a micrometer or caliper to measure shim thickness with. Also a inch lb torque wrench. It needs to be a dial indicator type but you can use a beam style torque wrench also. And then you need gear marking paint. A bearing puller set is also helpful and then a hyd press. This is the basic set of extra tools you need and I'm sure there is stuff I'm forgetting.

I'll try to take pictures as I'm doing the gears and explain what I'm doing. The biggest thing about doing gears is that you take your time and then make sure things are exact. You can't rush this process.
ARBs are the one time you really do need to have a case spreader. There is no good way to ensure you do not gink an oring or ensure proper bearing preload without one.
 
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Wildman

Wildman

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ARBs are the one time you really do need to have a case spreader. There is no good way to ensure you do not gink an oring or ensure proper bearing preload without one.

Yes this was the reason I got one. One of my club members had another shop install a ARB and they'd tried to without a case spreader. Needless to say they screwed it up. So they brought it to me to fix.

ARBs are the one time you really do need to have a case spreader. There is no good way to ensure you do not gink an oring or ensure proper bearing preload without one.

It's been over 12 years for me.
 
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Wildman

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Man Rick, you’ve been going to town on that Jeep since the last time I checked in.

That is gonna be one awesome monster of a wheeling machine! 😸

I'll be honest there are times where I don't feel like I'm making any progress. So I appreciate that a lot.

I needed to take a break today and give my leg a break.

I HOPE this thing works like it should once it's all back together. When I built it 15 years ago I thought that was it and I'd be wheeling it for the next 20 years. So once this build is done I truely hope I can enjoy it for the next 20 years.

I'll dig out all those Sporty parts for ya and we'll figure out what fits and you can use. Help me get rid of some of these motorcycle parts in my garage.
 
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Wildman

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I got the rest of the parts for the ARB locker yesterday so I can get it ready. One of the things I found when I was taking the old lock tabs off was that some of the bolts were loose even if they had a lock tab on them. Now I have no CLUE how old any of these are so they could be the original tabs. I'm using Red Loctite on the bolts and then installing all new lock tabs so hopefully they will stay tight.

Since I won't have the crush sleeve eliminator for a few days I'll set the pinion preload like you do wheel bearings. This is only temporary until I have the parts. But I can do the gear setup this way and then do the final setup once all the parts are here.

Many times if you read a setup manual it will require you to measure your pinion depth but the way to do this without one is to use the shims that were in the housing to start with. If you are starting from a bare housing I've always just used an approx amount and go from there. It's going to take a little longer but you will get there. Also when starting with a bare housing make larger changes first and then once you have established where you're at you can bracket it in from there.

Since I am starting with gears already in the housing I'll start with the old shim pack. And as I said earlier there are a lot of shims in this housing. And because of that it's part of the reason I bought extra shim packs and the ARB master shim & Dana 60 shim pack.
 

Farmergreg

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I got the rest of the parts for the ARB locker yesterday so I can get it ready. One of the things I found when I was taking the old lock tabs off was that some of the bolts were loose even if they had a lock tab on them. Now I have no CLUE how old any of these are so they could be the original tabs. I'm using Red Loctite on the bolts and then installing all new lock tabs so hopefully they will stay tight.
Is it possible that those bolts stretched?
 
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Is it possible that those bolts stretched?
Yes it could be but the lock tab goes over the head of the bolt so I don't think that is what happened. I'm going to be inside this housing a LOT over the next year so I'll keep an eye on them and see if any work loose. I was going to replace the bolts but they are on back order every place I checked.
I've got a request in to be notified when they come back in stock and I'll order a set of the bolts to have on hand. Then if any do come loose, I'll just replace them.

I plan to change the gear oil at 200 miles of break in & then again at 500 miles since I'm going to be running them with a tighter tolerance.
 

Blackjack

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Yes this was the reason I got one. One of my club members had another shop install a ARB and they'd tried to without a case spreader. Needless to say they screwed it up. So they brought it to me to fix.



It's been over 12 years for me.
One tool I cannot live without is this Blue Point pry bar https://shop.snapon.com/product/Die-Setter-Bars/30"-Die-Setter-Prybar-(Blue-Point)/7037 Best tool I have found for popping carriers out of housings.

pry bar.png
 
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I needed more slots for mounting switches so I went with the Daystar vent mounts.

20220122_015808.jpg



And the o-rings from O-Rings & More for the locker. Find out tomorrow if they fit for sure.

20220122_015824.jpg


And got the winch switch in.

20220122_015945.jpg



And some new rubber plugs for some of the drain holes.

20220122_020057.jpg



All just little stuff but things that were needed.
 
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Wildman

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I went out to the garage this morning planning on getting the gears setup but as always I ran into a SNAG...

But first I had gotten the pinion installed and the nut tightened down enough to give me a good preload. For new bearings the preload should be between 10-20 inch lbs. And since I was just using the nut tightness to set it I went for 10 inch lbs.

20220122_075720.jpg


20220122_075740.jpg



Then I verified that these new o-rings were the correct size and would fit.

20220122_080531.jpg



Then I was going to get the case spreader setup and realized there was a reason I'd told myself I wasn't going to install that truss UNTIL AFTER I'd gotten the gears done. And YEP here is why....

20220122_092656.jpg



20220122_092706.jpg



So what I need to do is to drill new holes for the screw tabs that go into the notches in the housing. But of course that takes a 7/8-14 tap which I don't have. So I'm going to call around to a few part stores and see if anyone local does have it.

20220122_092715.jpg


I've seen case spreaders with more than one hole for the screw tabs before so I don't think it will adversely affect the spreader.

Now if I'd left that damn truss off like I'd said I was gunna here is what it looks like spreading the housing.

20211022_133900.jpg
 

Blackjack

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If it is not one thing it is always something else right? Should be no reason why you cannot add extra holes in the spreader frame.
 

NskLJ

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What about drilling holes the size of the pins ( 7/8”) and cutting the threads off off a grade 8 bolt and just sliding it through. Once you get some side load on the pins they won’t go anywhere.
 
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someguysjeep

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IDK if it matters but movin it down might effect it's leverage, could you maybe invert it and move the hole just leave/have room to spin the nut? at least the leverage point stays closer to the pushing end.
 
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Wildman

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If it is not one thing it is always something else right? Should be no reason why you cannot add extra holes in the spreader frame.

Yep it always seems to go like that too. And I'd told myself I wasn't gunna install this truss until I got the gears done and then forgot.
And of course NO ONE local has a tap that large. So I ordered it from Amazon and it'll be here Wednesday.

What about drilling holes the size of the pins ( 7/8”) and cutting the threads off off a grade 8 bolt and just sliding it through. Once you get some side load on the pins they won’t go anywhere.

That isn't a bad idea.

IDK if it matters but movin it down might effect it's leverage, could you maybe invert it and move the hole just leave/have room to spin the nut? at least the leverage point stays closer to the pushing end.

I looked at that and I didn't like how I'd have to have it setup to still be able to turn the spreader. I don't think it'll matter being up higher on the arms. That thing is pretty stout.

The only other thing I could do is get some new flat stock that size and make a set of shorter arms? And then just use the two end pieces to spread it? Make new ones circled in charcoal and reuse the ones circled in red.

Spreader.jpg