Wildman's TJ is getting a face lift

I personally like the idea. Weight is one of the few downsides to that motor swap and this would help IMHO.

My only misgivings with aluminum heads on the iron block are those horror stories I've heard of blown head gaskets and other problems due to the different metals.

Wait - why are those valves lined up right next to each other on the same side of the cylinder? That makes no sense at all…

🙂

Some of us just can't ever seem to measure up...
 
My only misgivings with aluminum heads on the iron block are those horror stories I've heard of blown head gaskets and other problems due to the different metals.



Some of us just can't ever seem to measure up...

Gotta think that if you're really worried about weight (seems like you are not anyways), there are probably easier and cheaper places to lose some since you went all steel with the armor?
 
Your machine shop got back to you the day after drop off?? I may have to pick my Audi engine back up and drive it out there...

Sorry you have to deal with this BS. Kinda annoying that at the end of the day it was because you didn't get what was advertised?? But totally better to have found it out now... you could've been that guy on the trail instead.

Plus pulling out that bent stud, gotta be satisfying to at least see something fucked up when pulling the heads lol.

You can do it man!!!


🍿🍿🍿

You must not have been following my build when I had the engine in the shop.... It took them over 3 months to get it back to me but it was at the beginning of COVID too.

Gotta think that if you're really worried about weight (seems like you are not anyways), there are probably easier and cheaper places to lose some since you went all steel with the armor?

Yep... It honestly wasn't ever a big concern of mine. As I've said before I've never noticed a big difference between my TJ and other rigs on my trails that might have been lighter. Between a V-8 & full size 4 speed transmission plus a 150lb t-case & then an old school HP44 & HP60 I think I'm already gunna be porky so losing 200 lbs by using aluminum armor (I'd guess more like 100 lbs) didn't seem all that important to me.

My comment about it saving weight was more of a joke than anything.

The GOOD about using the aluminum heads is less chance of detonation from running lower octane fuel if I can't get Supreme somewhere. They also dissipate the heat better.
 
You must not have been following my build when I had the engine in the shop.... It took them over 3 months to get it back to me but it was at the beginning of COVID too.
That isn't too bad... Dude has had my motor for I think 2 months now and no news. I need to call him back, I don't think he's even torn it down to figure out what is wrong.

I told him I wasn't in a hurry... might have been my mistake. I just said "it'd be nice to have it back before the snow starts in earnest" and we're basically there now...
Yep... It honestly wasn't ever a big concern of mine. As I've said before I've never noticed a big difference between my TJ and other rigs on my trails that might have been lighter. Between a V-8 & full size 4 speed transmission plus a 150lb t-case & then an old school HP44 & HP60 I think I'm already gunna be porky so losing 200 lbs by using aluminum armor (I'd guess more like 100 lbs) didn't seem all that important to me.

My comment about it saving weight was more of a joke than anything.

The GOOD about using the aluminum heads is less chance of detonation from running lower octane fuel if I can't get Supreme somewhere. They also dissipate the heat better.
Yeah, with all the heavy shit you're putting in and the power of your motor it probably won't matter much. The weight savings goal is to not make the 4.0 more underpowered than it borderline already is it seems.

Why would a different material head effect detonation?

Also, can you just buy the octane booster crap at like AutoZone and put some in your tank if you are stuck with 85 or does it not work that way
 
  • Like
Reactions: reddvltj
That isn't too bad... Dude has had my motor for I think 2 months now and no news. I need to call him back, I don't think he's even torn it down to figure out what is wrong.

I told him I wasn't in a hurry... might have been my mistake. I just said "it'd be nice to have it back before the snow starts in earnest" and we're basically there now...

I'd said the same thing plus the main machinist was out for health issues part of the time I think.

Yeah, with all the heavy shit you're putting in and the power of your motor it probably won't matter much. The weight savings goal is to not make the 4.0 more underpowered than it borderline already is it seems.

I ran heavy shit with my 4 cyl but I also wasn't in a hurry. And back then there wasn't aluminum armor available.

Why would a different material head effect detonation?

Because the aluminum heads dissipate the heat better you have less chance of predetonation than you do with iron heads.

Also, can you just buy the octane booster crap at like AutoZone and put some in your tank if you are stuck with 85 or does it not work that way

Yes you can but most times I've not been able to find Supreme fuels has been out in smaller towns where 99% of the time there isn't a parts store on the corner.
I will probably carry a bottle of octane booster for just this chance but I doubt it would happen often.
 
I'd said the same thing plus the main machinist was out for health issues part of the time I think.



I ran heavy shit with my 4 cyl but I also wasn't in a hurry. And back then there wasn't aluminum armor available.
Yeah, I like to think it has more impact on the highways. Especially hilly ones. Also, I am imptaient.
Because the aluminum heads dissipate the heat better you have less chance of predetonation than you do with iron heads.
Ah interesting! Did not think of that.
Yes you can but most times I've not been able to find Supreme fuels has been out in smaller towns where 99% of the time there isn't a parts store on the corner.
I will probably carry a bottle of octane booster for just this chance but I doubt it would happen often.
Yeah carrying a bottle is what I was thinking, just in case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: reddvltj
OK just got off the phone with the machine shop... Good news is that they found springs that will work and they aren't through the roof expensive.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...bnVt&level1=VmFsdmUgU3ByaW5ncw==&partid=30450

But Hughes engines is also telling the machine shop that they recommend 1.6 ratio rockers not the 1.7 ratio rockers I have. So I've got to run a set of my rockers over to them tomorrow. I'm going to take them both the Scorpion aluminum rockers & the Comp steel rockers and let them tell me which set will be better. Hopefully I don't have to buy another set of rockers.... ☹️


Yeah, I like to think it has more impact on the highways. Especially hilly ones. Also, I am imptaient.

I could get those 4 angry squirrels wrapped up to 5K RPM's and go 65 MPH most of the time. Climbing Snoqualmie pass I don't think I was going over 60 MPH but most of the time I could pass a semi now & then.

Ah interesting! Did not think of that.

Iron heads can get more hot spots than aluminum heads. It's part of the reason auto manufacturers have gone to aluminum heads. You can run higher compression ratios (more power) and not require high octane fuels. This is only one part of the whole equation but it is a big part of it.

Yeah carrying a bottle is what I was thinking, just in case.

That is the plan...


Added note on all this: Asked why the heads weren't checked back when I'd had the engine in the shop for the work and I was told that the person who's responsibility it would have been to check the heads has "Moved On" which I take to mean he was a FUCK UP and got canned.... We'll see if they cut me a break on the costs of things because of this.
 
OK just got off the phone with the machine shop... Good news is that they found springs that will work and they aren't through the roof expensive.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...bnVt&level1=VmFsdmUgU3ByaW5ncw==&partid=30450

But Hughes engines is also telling the machine shop that they recommend 1.6 ratio rockers not the 1.7 ratio rockers I have. So I've got to run a set of my rockers over to them tomorrow. I'm going to take them both the Scorpion aluminum rockers & the Comp steel rockers and let them tell me which set will be better. Hopefully I don't have to buy another set of rockers.... ☹️




I could get those 4 angry squirrels wrapped up to 5K RPM's and go 65 MPH most of the time. Climbing Snoqualmie pass I don't think I was going over 60 MPH but most of the time I could pass a semi now & then.
LOL yeah sounds about right. I don't go quite that high but I'll typically sit at around 3700-4krpm (redline is 5k for the 4.0) for most of the drive to Moab lol thing is fucking LOUD at those RPMs
Iron heads can get more hot spots than aluminum heads. It's part of the reason auto manufacturers have gone to aluminum heads. You can run higher compression ratios (more power) and not require high octane fuels. This is only one part of the whole equation but it is a big part of it.
Interesting! That is pretty cool. I have kinda been wondering how the engine in my Taos was a 1.5T and was fine with 87 gas. Probably related, I know they did some crazy integrated intake manifold with the head that was supposed to help with temps
That is the plan...


Added note on all this: Asked why the heads weren't checked back when I'd had the engine in the shop for the work and I was told that the person who's responsibility it would have been to check the heads has "Moved On" which I take to mean he was a FUCK UP and got canned.... We'll see if they cut me a break on the costs of things because of this.

CYA lol
 
Head gasket issues with an iron block and aluminum heads isn't a thing as far as I know. Tons and tons of engine come OEM like that including a lot of inline 6's that'll run 7-800+hp with nothing more than a big(ger) tarrrrrbo and supporting mods.

And at the risk of splitting hairs, the heads don't "dissipate" heat better so much as the transfer heat better. I know that sounds like semantics, but people can get confused. There was somebody on here a while back explaining how his 4.0 ran cooler with an aluminum head (wrong). It is better able to transfer combustion chamber heat into the coolant which in theory would actually show the coolant being hotter (but in practice it doesn't because reserve cooling capacity + thermostat). But yes, it let's you get away with higher compression or lower octane or some combination of the two.
 
TL/DR

Do it. Do it for 'murica.

tenor-1957682647.gif
 
Head gasket issues with an iron block and aluminum heads isn't a thing as far as I know. Tons and tons of engine come OEM like that including a lot of inline 6's that'll run 7-800+hp with nothing more than a big(ger) tarrrrrbo and supporting mods.

Well I'm old so I remember in years past when there were issues but it might have been when they were first doing this. And yes I know there are many OEM engines that come this way from the factory.
While I know it's the intake and not the heads one of the issues with the stock magnum engine is the plenum gasket is that they used an aluminum plate on the bottom of the cast intake. The blown plenum gasket is a common failure on these engines.

And at the risk of splitting hairs, the heads don't "dissipate" heat better so much as the transfer heat better. I know that sounds like semantics, but people can get confused. There was somebody on here a while back explaining how his 4.0 ran cooler with an aluminum head (wrong). It is better able to transfer combustion chamber heat into the coolant which in theory would actually show the coolant being hotter (but in practice it doesn't because reserve cooling capacity + thermostat). But yes, it let's you get away with higher compression or lower octane or some combination of the two.

My terminology might have been inaccurate but?
 
Ran the rocker arms and mounting studs over to the machine shop and got to talk with the head guy. Hopefully these other springs will solve the issue and I'll get the heads back and can get the engine reassembled and finally get it running correctly. While I'm waiting for the heads I can work on other stuff.
 
I should have been more clear. I am sure you understand it but I was more speaking to the crowd reading this later for reference. I was just thinking of all times I've heard it described wrong, not aiming at your comments directly.

It's all good. My terminology is off at times. And you explained it better.

We'll see if the machine shop can make these heads work with the springs they have found. I'm really curious about the rocker ratio thing since I know many guys running 1.7 rockers on their magnum engines. So not sure why Hughes Engines is saying the geometry would be off with them.
 
Rick, here's hoping the machine shop comes back with good news on those heads. I'm sure getting the motor running right will feel so good. I'm have a lot of the same bad luck as you with my swaps, but we just use it as a chance to learn something new and end up with a badass Jeep. I know I've thought about throwing in the towel sometimes, but seeing projects like yours helps me get back on track and finish. Keep it up brother!
 
Rick, here's hoping the machine shop comes back with good news on those heads. I'm sure getting the motor running right will feel so good. I'm have a lot of the same bad luck as you with my swaps, but we just use it as a chance to learn something new and end up with a badass Jeep. I know I've thought about throwing in the towel sometimes, but seeing projects like yours helps me get back on track and finish. Keep it up brother!

Yep fingers crossed... I really don't want to have to buy new heads.

I'm also hoping that the machine shop cuts me a little break on the cost of everything since they were supposed to have already checked the heads out.

You have no idea how many times I've thought about throwing in the towel on this project or how many times I'd rather have my 4 angry squirrels back. But as you said once it's all done the goal is a BADASS rig.

Why yes, yes I was…

😎

I need to win the LOTTO so that I can build me a Hemi swapped rig.