Wildman's TJ is getting a face lift

No way you’re making it around with the flares on - not on our trails. Do you have the room to toss them in the back?

I'm going to be looking at that. Right now I'll have a fuel cell behind the front seats and then was thinking of putting a basket over the top of it. Plus I have a basket that bolts to the spare tire carrier that I use sometimes. If I'm up camping my plan would be to just leave the flares in camp and run the chance of getting popped for no flares.
At least with them on when driving down the street I am LEGAL once I add mud flaps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BuildBreakRepeat
No I just know that you said that the control arms can't be lengthened by turning the JJ's out. So the only other way is longer arms that I can think of.
You make this way too fucking hard.

Alright, if the arms could not be adjusted, they would not have JJ with threaded shanks, they would just be tube with the welded on barrels to the right length on both ends. So obviously they can be adjusted out and in. In context, they can be made somewhat longer or shorter, otherwise, how are you going to set pinion angle, wheelbase, thrust angle, etc?????

What happens if you have a total brain meltdown and weld one of the brackets 1/4" out of position? Are you going to run around with a fucked up thrust angle forever or are you going to make one side longer to fix it?

Out of this context into the context of the other conversation, if you try to do a stretch like some idiots have suggested by simply screwing the joints out until minimal engagement, that greatly increases the risk of bending the shank when the fulcrum is too close to the pivot with too much weight on the other end. I know I have explained that. If it is an upper that will never find itself being used as a lever to lift the rig with a short fulcrum, that doesn't apply. If you never plan on driving offroad, does it really matter if you can bend a shank easier because it is threaded out too far?

It has also been suggested that the mid arm would greatly benefit from longer arms so just slide the mounts forward and get custom arms made to which the answer is- NO that is not a good idea because it fucks up where and how the mounts sit on the frame of the TJ. Does that mean that yours are now in the wrong spot????

It has been suggested several times that the correct location for the mounts is wherever you feel like putting them. Not quite. If you want to install it per the design, there are very specific locations. But, you aren't doing that, so now what???

We don't know where your lower control arm mounts on your custom axle are relative to stock. Given the rest of the shit I've seen, they could be 3" closer or further so that puts the question of "do I need longer arms" in the unanswerable category.

So, sure, you need longer arms. Make them exactly .738" longer in the middle and that will work perfectly. Don't add .369 to each end though, that will fuck them up.

Point being this whole exercise is way past the point of cut and dried pat answers. Every single aspect of it will have to be defined by the end goal and gathering information by cycling, checking, moving, cycling, measuring, and figuring out what does and does not work and AGAIN, if I tell you that you need longer arms and you don't, then what??????
 
There never is a easy answer. I'm trying not to fuck up your design and right now the front brackets are where they are supposed to be per install instructions. I can't tell you how far off from stock locations my but Larry and I tried to make them as close to stock as possible.

I'm not trying to make this any harder than it needs to be. I read tox's build and he pushed his axle forward 2". He did this by making longer control arms. That was why I asked. You had explained the reason why the JJ's shouldn't be screwed out to far and that was what I was going off of.

I'm just trying to understand the how and why if I was to try to stretch the front. I'm not even sure that I want to try to tackle that project but if I understand correctly what would be required if I was to try it then I can make a informed decision.
 
There never is a easy answer. I'm trying not to fuck up your design and right now the front brackets are where they are supposed to be per install instructions. I can't tell you how far off from stock locations my but Larry and I tried to make them as close to stock as possible.

And? How do I know that or even have any idea of where they are, HOW?

I'm not trying to make this any harder than it needs to be. I read tox's build and he pushed his axle forward 2". He did this by making longer control arms. That was why I asked. You had explained the reason why the JJ's shouldn't be screwed out to far and that was what I was going off of.

No, he didn't do it by making longer control arms. He pushed it forward by putting it where he wanted it to be, cycling it, checking what fit, what cleared, what didn't, and when he had all that figured out, he determined that he would be more comfortable with more thread engagement of the JJ shanks in his control arms so he had longer ones made. That is not the same as I'm just going to buy some longer control arms and move the axle forward.

I'm just trying to understand the how and why if I was to try to stretch the front. I'm not even sure that I want to try to tackle that project but if I understand correctly what would be required if I was to try it then I can make a informed decision.
By starting with the last step in the process?
 
Whoooooooa. YOu touched Metalcloak parts and now they look like Savvy parts. :) That's magic.

So i'm about to bolt up my wheels/tires and cycle and if i have to get cut into the mounting plate area i was thinking to just skip it and go aluminum corners, save myself some weight and hassle, but i may re-look into what i can do to move the mounts.
 
It's also important to note that I did not stretch the front just for the sake of stretching the wheelbase.

The axle had to be moved forward to package correctly into the front end. If that were not the problem, I would have left it as is.
 
And? How do I know that or even have any idea of where they are, HOW?



No, he didn't do it by making longer control arms. He pushed it forward by putting it where he wanted it to be, cycling it, checking what fit, what cleared, what didn't, and when he had all that figured out, he determined that he would be more comfortable with more thread engagement of the JJ shanks in his control arms so he had longer ones made. That is not the same as I'm just going to buy some longer control arms and move the axle forward.


By starting with the last step in the process?

I never said you are suppose to KNOW where they are.

I guess becasue that is always the way it seems I do things.

It's also important to note that I did not stretch the front just for the sake of stretching the wheelbase.

The axle had to be moved forward to package correctly into the front end. If that were not the problem, I would have left it as is.

And I am just trying to think a head to if I am going to need to push my axle forward a little bit also. I am not doing JUST for more WB. I'm thinking about tire clearance and how things are going to fit. I pretty much had rules out stretching the front because of all that would have to be done. But after everything I have done on the rear it's got me thinking I might have to move the axle forward some.
 
If we don't ask questions then how can we learn? It may seem that I do things backwards but if all I know is one things then how can I do things differently?
I have read about front end stretches for many reasons. From just wanting more WB to needing clearance for larger tires or for larger axles. I've read where one way is to use longer arms and others made different axle mounts.
Of course if you are doing CoilOvers or Air Shocks this isn't as bug a deal since you just move the upper mounts to fit where you need them.
If you are trying to keep your coil springs or whatever type of spring you have then you have new issues. Move the spring pads on the axle or on the frame? Neither choice is a easy one and they both require you to cut and move things.

With the Savvy mid arm kit the instructions clearly tell you not to try to CHEAT any WB out of the front brackets as they are made to be in one spot and only one spot. So be it..... They can't be moved.
The JJ's can only be threaded out of the control arms XX amount without running the risk of bending the shanks.

This is all the information that I know. Now there is a kit offered by TNT Customs that allows you to stretch up to 3". They offer this kit with the reason being that you get better approach angles.

I had stopped looking at doing ANY type of front end stretch because of the amount of work to try and make it work with the AiRock system. After all the work I have done so far on the rear of the Jeep the only reason I am now looking at the front is becasue of possible clearance issues with my tires. Won't know until I get there but I need to start looking at things as a maybe.

Yesterday I took the day off to celebrate my daughter graduating from high school. Today I think I am taking the day off to let my leg heal more. So I guess I can try to find some good reading that will tell me how to do things the easy way and in the correct order.

No where did I say I would just order new longer control arms and BOOM stretch my front. I asked a question
"if you stretch the front should you get longer control arms?"

Just like I learned with the rear frame stretch there isn't any guarantee that you will end up with the numbers you thing you want. So yes it would be silly to order some new control arms that were 2.5" longer and then find out I really needed some that were 2.25" longer or 1.75" longer.

Only time will tell what I do next and I'm sure it will be wrong.
 
Last edited:
I took 2 days off from working on the Jeep. My prothesis said I should take it easy on my leg until it heals all the way but I can only sit so long. I'll see how it feels after being on it today. Have to watch it for infection and stuff also.

I've got to cycle drivers side of the rear axle next and see how that works out. I've still got a lot of things to do to the rear before I can even think about dealing with the front. Hopefully I'll have a engine block back sometime next week so I can also get things bolted up and start to look at what clearance issues I might have on my front end.

If I have to take a few more days off from working on the Jeep I guess I can work on my schematics & pin outs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alex01 and DrDmoney
Drivers side looks like the passenger side more or less. I've got clearance for the tire at the back.

20200607_110204.jpg


20200607_110212.jpg


With the flare installed it is barely rubs just like the passenger side.

20200607_110630.jpg


20200607_110633.jpg


And this is with the airbag at 6" of compression.

20200607_105921.jpg


20200607_105921.jpg


20200607_105940.jpg


I stop jacking when I see that the frame is moving.

20200607_105932.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Flair and jjvw
Those Metal Cloak flares IMO look great for those of us who have to have that coverage.

20200607_110618.jpg


But I'd hate to have to run them on the trail. So removing them works for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alex01
Now to spend a little time seeing if I can make a mount for the airbag like BBR & Black Jack have suggested.
 
The hardest part of doing this would be getting the air fitting on and off. I've got to have enough clearance to get it into the hole.

20200607_115103.jpg


20200607_115114.jpg


20200607_115304.jpg


Test fit time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alex01
If that air fitting do not you can get ones that swivel.

It swivels.

So what I'm seeing here is about 1/2" of gained up travel.
I guess this is the 10% for the 90% work that @mrblaine & @jjvw talk about.
20200607_120058.jpg


20200607_120919.jpg


20200607_120926.jpg


What I'm seeing is that since my frame is cut I should slide it forward enough to catch the hump with the bracket. I'd also have to cut the studs on the airbag shorter so that I can remove the nuts.

Anything else I'm missing?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BuildBreakRepeat
The pluses of doing this is that the airbag is now directly under the frame. I don't know if anything this helps.
 
Rather then reinvent the wheel, it looks like the adapter backer could be cut to arrive at the same place.
 
Well I played with ideas and have come to the conclusion that the adapter I have is still the best option.

I first tired with the studs sideways.

20200607_130412.jpg


20200607_130414.jpg
20200607_130429.jpg


20200607_130712.jpg


20200607_130720.jpg


20200607_131132.jpg


I'm really not gaining anything because I've got to have room to get the nuts off the studs and the air fitting out.

20200607_131145.jpg


20200607_131152.jpg


Then I tried with the studs length wise.

20200607_134625.jpg


20200607_134630.jpg


20200607_135001.jpg


20200607_135007.jpg


If I make the plate any longer I'm actually loosing up travel.

With the shape of the hump in the frame the adapter seems like the better way to go. I make the plate like I'd mocked up before and then I can bolt the adapter to it. Trying to get the air fitting out was a PITA. I think I need to mark where I want to mount the support plate and build them up and tack them to the frame.
 
How far would it move the bag inboard to have the studs just inside the frame? That would gain the most up movement.