• Want to add an app icon for this forum to your mobile device's home screen? Check out this thread to see how.
  • Have an event you want to share? Check out the new forum event calendar and how-to use it in this thread here.
  • To both new members and existing members, please read this thread about posting your topics in the correct sub-forum. It makes my job (and my life) a lot easier!

Windows 10: WTF?

OldButStillJeeping

Old School Jeep TJ Tinker
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
192
Location
Southern california
Ok, so after years of getting Windows 7 mastered. MS is only supporting Windows 10.
So, had my computer guy put 10 in my home computer.
And, well, what the hell is this shit?
Do I need to go back to school cuz the computer dorks can't stay with a good thing?
Maybe looking into Mac.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: jimsmith29841

Chris

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
39,703
Location
Salem, Oregon
I switched to Mac when Windows 7 came out. I never looked back, and I never once regret it.

Switching to a Mac was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. I currently use a iMac 27" with 5K retina display and absolutely love it.

I'm a Mac guy through-and-through.
 

Equilibrium31

TJ Addict
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,077
Location
Burnsville, MN, USA
Windows 10 is a bit different, but it’s a good operating system. Probably the best OS in a long time for PC. Mac is solid system too though if you prefer that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Twopoint

rasband

J.ust E.xplore E.very P.lace
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2018
Messages
851
Location
Denver, CO
I’m a Linux guy, but work usually requires me on a Mac. For a long time I played IT for my family (computers, printers, WiFi, etc)... until I got them all on Mac (some of which have done the training classes). It’s been phenomenal for me since then.

The gist being, I believe Mac can help many people from a usability perspective. However, the 2-4x cost is really hard to justify for everyone. It’s great in many ways, but the question ends up being cost/benefit.
 

ftwhite3

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
118
Location
Redmond, WA
I work at Microsoft on Windows development. So I am partial, but if you need help or want to provide specific feedback, I'd be happy to help or relay to the right teams. I worked on Win7 too, so I like both like I like both my kids.
 

Cornbread

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
192
Location
Southern Indiana
Thought the same thing with windows 10, had it for quite awhile now. You can play with the settings to give it a more "windows 7 feel". Pretty used to it and actually like it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldButStillJeeping

Mikester86

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't 4 U
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
336
Location
Michigan
The corporate world for the most part is Windows driven, with some apples added for specific departments, such as Marketing. Windows 10 is a solid OS, and a quick Google search will show you the way if new to it. I love my iPhone, but am partial to Windows devices.
 

mots

Goldilocks Jeep Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
1,043
Location
OH, USA
I work at Microsoft on Windows development. So I am partial, but if you need help or want to provide specific feedback, I'd be happy to help or relay to the right teams. I worked on Win7 too, so I like both like I like both my kids.
Hi, I'll bite on that, haha! I am a software developer and have developed enterprise software on Windows since the Windows 3.1 16 bit era. I am also an avid user of Linux and MacOS. I have worked on pretty much everything from kernel development on PC/Smartphones, to middle tier services, to GUI development. While Windows 8/8.1/2012 Server were abysmal in my opinion, MS is finally getting it right after some trials and tribulations with Windows 10. In my opinion, the biggest issues with the current revision of Windows 10 are:

1) All the extra processes that have been bundled and turned on by default (telemetry, adware etc.) - no biggie, if you understand the operating system, you can turn most of this stuff off. I'm not arguing whether these services are useful or malicious, I just don't want/need all these processes running, hitting my disk\CPU\RAM, and needing to be updated etc.

2) Windows Update - abysmal. Takes way too long to update a machine, likely because there are so many extra things to update and manage (see number 1). Mac and Linux are miles ahead in this area as far as frustration goes. At least when I update these operating system, I have some idea of how long it will take. Linux repositories are still the first and the best "app store" for a PC operating system. In particular, Arch and AUR are my favorites.

3) The Cortana/Search bar function is always unresponsive on many PC's just after logging in because background services are still preparing the backend of the search daemon etc. You pretty much have to have a speed demon of a PC for it to perform well on startup.

Other than these issues, I am liking Windows 10 in its current form. Don't get me wrong, I could do the same for Mac and Linux, LOL.
 

Jon Wildes

TJ Padawan
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
223
Location
Memphis
Ok, so after years of getting Windows 7 mastered. MS is only supporting Windows 10.
So, had my computer guy put 10 in my home computer.
And, well, what the hell is this shit?
Do I need to go back to school cuz the computer dorks can't stay with a good thing?
Maybe looking into Mac.
The good thing about mac is the basic operation of the OS has been consistently the same since forever.
 

Mikester86

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't 4 U
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
336
Location
Michigan
Hi, I'll bite on that, haha! I am a software developer and have developed enterprise software on Windows since the Windows 3.1 16 bit era. I am also an avid user of Linux and MacOS. I have worked on pretty much everything from kernel development on PC/Smartphones, to middle tier services, to GUI development. While Windows 8/8.1/2012 Server were abysmal in my opinion, MS is finally getting it right after some trials and tribulations with Windows 10. In my opinion, the biggest issues with the current revision of Windows 10 are:

1) All the extra processes that have been bundled and turned on by default (telemetry, adware etc.) - no biggie, if you understand the operating system, you can turn most of this stuff off. I'm not arguing whether these services are useful or malicious, I just don't want/need all these processes running, hitting my disk\CPU\RAM, and needing to be updated etc.

2) Windows Update - abysmal. Takes way too long to update a machine, likely because there are so many extra things to update and manage (see number 1). Mac and Linux are miles ahead in this area as far as frustration goes. At least when I update these operating system, I have some idea of how long it will take. Linux repositories are still the first and the best "app store" for a PC operating system. In particular, Arch and AUR are my favorites.

3) The Cortana/Search bar function is always unresponsive on many PC's just after logging in because background services are still preparing the backend of the search daemon etc. You pretty much have to have a speed demon of a PC for it to perform well on startup.

Other than these issues, I am liking Windows 10 in its current form. Don't get me wrong, I could do the same for Mac and Linux, LOL.
Solid State Hard Drives alleviate much of the pain in slowness and waiting. My home rig will go from power on to Desktop in under 20 seconds. Within a few seconds of that, it is all systems go! :)
 

tworley

TJ Addict
Supporting Member
Ride of the Month Winner
Joined
May 23, 2018
Messages
2,583
Location
Morrison, CO
I think 10 has its quirks, we've used it at work for a while now. Once you get completely used to it itll upgrade again:LOL:
 
  • Like
Reactions: jeepins

Boinked

TJ Addict
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
2,611
Location
Mesa,az
At the end of the day we can all agree any operating system works. Its hardware that is my concern.

Until Apple stops with their anti "right to repair" actions i will never own a apple product again. They will not even sell factory parts to anyone who is not a "certified" and to get that you have to follow the standard company policy that says never fix it just make them buy a new model.

Could you imagine if a car manufacturer does what apple does. "Sorry we can't sell you a fan belt you need to go to the dealer and pay for a new engine" and we will not tell you how to fix it yourself and if you do we no longer provide any support upto and including making it undriveable.

Just my personal Anti Apple rant. Its more of how they do business not the products that they sell. That is another long list of bad hardware issues.
 

Jon Wildes

TJ Padawan
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
223
Location
Memphis
At the end of the day we can all agree any operating system works. Its hardware that is my concern.

Until Apple stops with their anti "right to repair" actions i will never own a apple product again. They will not even sell factory parts to anyone who is not a "certified" and to get that you have to follow the standard company policy that says never fix it just make them buy a new model.

Could you imagine if a car manufacturer does what apple does. "Sorry we can't sell you a fan belt you need to go to the dealer and pay for a new engine" and we will not tell you how to fix it yourself and if you do we no longer provide any support upto and including making it undriveable.

Just my personal Anti Apple rant. Its more of how they do business not the products that they sell. That is another long list of bad hardware issues.
the right to repair argument is a joke and in the best interest of the consumer. as a technician who has seen the garbage people put in phones i have to say that the internet has no clue what they are talking about.
Also your comment of never fix it is laughable at best. if you knew the amount of batteries and displays we swap in a day your head would spin. of course they would rather you upgrade. it is a business after all.

Also right to repair isn’t only against apple it’s against all phone companies. So the Android you’re using falls under your rant as well.
 
Last edited:

Boinked

TJ Addict
Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
2,611
Location
Mesa,az
the right to repair argument is a joke and in the best interest of the consumer. as a technician who has seen the garbage people put in phones i have to say that the internet has no clue what they are talking about.
Also your comment of never fix it is laughable at best. if you knew the amount of batteries and displays we swap in a day your head would spin. of course they would rather you upgrade. it is a business after all.
I was speaking more about apple laptops because all of the components are soldered on and apple does not do component level repair. They force you to buy a new board vs a $10 resistor. I have done component level micro repair/soldering with the navy. It takes time to master. Apple does not want to pay the wages for competent workers to do this. Its fast and easier for them to make you pay $1000 for a new board then pay a technician less then $15 a hour.

When you can pay for $10 part and $200 in labor to someone skilled enough to fix the issue. But you would have to pay your employee 25-30 an hour for the skills they have.

So intern apple does not care about anything but money. Not customers nor employees nor making people better.

Apple used to have a model "think different" but in reality they're thinking like every other manufacturer who builds products to last just enough to get out of warranty then fail or in "Apple's case" make them fail so you have to go buy the new model.

Windows builds operating system it doesn't build computers.

Linux and Unix build operating systems not computers.

Dell IBM Lenovo Intel AMD and many many other computer and component manufacturers build components not operating systems that can only be run on any thing not just their products and nothing else.
 

mots

Goldilocks Jeep Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
1,043
Location
OH, USA
Solid State Hard Drives alleviate much of the pain in slowness and waiting. My home rig will go from power on to Desktop in under 20 seconds. Within a few seconds of that, it is all systems go! :)
True, but that is just hiding the sins of the operating system and expecting you to use your extra processing power, RAM and disk on their not-so-necessary processes. Many folks don't have high end systems like you and I do. Even my systems with fast CPU, gobs of RAM, and SSD can be frustrating when applying Windows updates. Updates are not nearly as efficient and quick as with Linux or MacOS. I definitely don't want to have to wait for updates just to shut down for the day.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mikester86

Jon Wildes

TJ Padawan
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
223
Location
Memphis
I was speaking more about apple laptops because all of the components are soldered on and apple does not do component level repair. They force you to buy a new board vs a $10 resistor. I have done component level micro repair/soldering with the navy. It takes time to master. Apple does not want to pay the wages for competent workers to do this. Its fast and easier for them to make you pay $1000 for a new board then pay a technician less then $15 a hour.

When you can pay for $10 part and $200 in labor to someone skilled enough to fix the issue. But you would have to pay your employee 25-30 an hour for the skills they have.

So intern apple does not care about anything but money. Not customers nor employees nor making people better.

Apple used to have a model "think different" but in reality they're thinking like every other manufacturer who builds products to last just enough to get out of warranty then fail or in "Apple's case" make them fail so you have to go buy the new model.

Windows builds operating system it doesn't build computers.

Linux and Unix build operating systems not computers.

Dell IBM Lenovo Intel AMD and many many other computer and component manufacturers build components not operating systems that can only be run on any thing not just their products and nothing else.
Soldering everything to the logic board is standard practice for most laptop manufacturers now. It reduced the failure rate exponentially. I always find it funny that apple haters refuse to use apple products be a of a holier than thou argument. Most apple users don’t use windows or android simply because they like the apple ecosystem better. The hate typically isn’t there. Use what you want. I love apple and live that the products last and just work. After years of terrible experiences with windows PCs I finally have a Mac and love it. That’s all I care about. If and when it fails I’ll buy a new one happily.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Twopoint

derekmac

TJ Addict
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
2,137
Location
NS, Canada
I love apple and live that the products last and just work.
This is why I'm still using my 2009 MacBook Pro. It's been completely trouble free and still works like a charm. I did swap the original HD out for an SSD, and swapped the SuperDrive out for a 1.5 TB HD. Whenever it does die, it'll most likely get replaced with another MacBook Pro.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jon Wildes

mots

Goldilocks Jeep Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
1,043
Location
OH, USA
What is exciting to me is that all the same companies being discussed here, Dell, IBM, Lenovo, Intel, AMD (and even Microsoft, Apple,Google), have all contributed heavily to the Linux kernel and/or the open source community. This goes from simple I/O device drivers, display drivers, exotic drivers used for business processes etc. They also work together on other standards like internet browsers, network standards, security etc. These companies all have to work together, whether they like it or not. Linux and the open software stack that sits on top of it are much more mature and exciting on the desktop in 2019 than most that only use Windows or MacOS would realize (and of course this is the case on the server side, most of the Internet runs on Linux).

Also, just to note. I've found that MacOS runs just as good on more open hardware (if selected properly) than the hardware that was designed for it. Underneath the covers, the core hardware components MacOS sits on are pretty much exactly the same as what Windows\Linux uses (Intel/AMD or Intel/Nvidia). There is just a slightly different driver layer between the HW and OS, whether it be to service Windows, MacOS or Linux. Still, MacOS is much pickier about hardware\EFI\BIOS\firmware than Linux and Windows. There is no debating that LOL.

For me, MacOS is the most handsome and most consistent. Linux is the most powerful, customizable, and best performing (most efficient). Windows 7/10 perform well and are the most necessary (because of legacy business systems, prominence in certain industries with popular software packages, gaming etc.).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jon Wildes

mots

Goldilocks Jeep Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
1,043
Location
OH, USA
P.S. Here is good example of how things are becoming standardized with open source collaboration. Most didn't believe me at first when I told them about this story when it came out...they would pause...nope it's not April 1st yet!

MS will use the open source Chromium engine for Edge browser (same as Google Chrome).
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/12/06/microsoft-edge-making-the-web-better-through-more-open-source-collaboration/

If Apple was smart, they would also ditch the open source Webkit engine in Safari and just use and contribute to the Chromium project as well. Google forked the Webkit project back some time ago into what is now Chromium. And then that would leave Firefox\Mozilla\Opera etc. using the open source Gecko engine. Maybe they will join in as well, but I doubt it!
 

Jon Wildes

TJ Padawan
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
223
Location
Memphis
Also, just to note. I've found that MacOS runs just as good on more open hardware (if selected properly) than the hardware that was designed for it. Underneath the covers, the core hardware components MacOS sits on are pretty much exactly the same as what Windows\Linux uses (Intel/AMD or Intel/Nvidia). There is just a slightly different driver layer between the HW and OS, whether it be to service Windows, MacOS or Linux. Still, MacOS is much pickier about hardware\EFI\BIOS\firmware than Linux and Windows. There is no debating that LOL.

For me, MacOS is the most handsome and most consistent. Linux is the most powerful, customizable, and best performing (most efficient). Windows 7/10 perform well and are the most necessary (because of legacy business systems, prominence in certain industries with popular software packages, gaming etc.).
i have thought of making a "Hackintosh" myself. i would love to build my own system but still use the MacOS.