Windows 10: WTF?

Mike_H

Rust Belt Heavyweight
Supporting Member
Feb 28, 2017
3,788
Grand Rapids, MI, United States
I've never really had felt the need to run Mac, and being an engineer, I've been running Windows my whole professional career. it seems that Modelling suites prefer the Windows environment. I dabbled a bit in Unix/Linux in College, but never really learned it. Windows is weird...3.1 worked pretty well, than Win95 came out. It was pretty awful. Then they released XP...it was really good. After that, ME...again, terrible. Along comes Win7...Happy, Win8 terrible, Win10...Seems pretty good.

They are shooting about 50%. Microsoft should just skip every other planned release!

I do agree with the preponderance of services that start up when you fire up windows...its nuts. I know how to turn them off, but there are so many now that I don't know whats what anymore. My home machine is pretty old (about 5 years now) but its still works for what I need. I wish I could strip windows down a bit more to increase startup performance...

That is one thing I laughed about...Win10 was supposed to boot so much faster than Win7. Well, yeah, you get to the splash screen faster, but then you gotta wait 5 minutes to finish starting all the "necessary" services once you log on...you net time from pushing the power button to using didn't really change at all!
 
OP
OldButStillJeeping

OldButStillJeeping

Old School Jeep TJ Tinker
Supporting Member
Feb 1, 2019
56
Southern california
Well , I'm simply trying to navigate the 10 operating system. I can't find anything. Was trying to put some music in a thumb drive, and after plugging it in I can't find it. I guess I'll have to play with it. A lot. Most of those that have responded are in it way way way over my head.
But thank you for letting me know that 10 is good to go. But a Mac may be in my future.
 
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Boinked

TJ Addict
Jul 7, 2018
2,150
Mesa,az
Soldering everything to the logic board is standard practice for most laptop manufacturers now. It reduced the failure rate exponentially. I always find it funny that apple haters refuse to use apple products be a of a holier than thou argument. Most apple users don’t use windows or android simply because they like the apple ecosystem better. The hate typically isn’t there. Use what you want. I love apple and live that the products last and just work. After years of terrible experiences with windows PCs I finally have a Mac and love it. That’s all I care about. If and when it fails I’ll buy a new one happily.
First thing i never said soldering to the board was bad. Employing people who cant repair it is. Sueing any third party that does fix them is bad.

I love the operating system. It is built like a brick shit house. Until apple stops with their business practices i will not own one.

For this same reason i will not buy a Tesla. I live in a major city with lots of charging stations. But only Tesla is allowed to work on it. I love the idea of NO dealership only factory stores. But even body repair has to be done by tesla. This causes Insurance to go up. Cost of repair to go up. And in the event your car gets totaled Tesla won't touch it. Even if it's been repaired. Tesla had to be sued to do the required safety recall on the airbag on totaled Tesla's that still are driving.

Apple has created a monopoly within the computer and phone industry. They won't sell parts to anybody they won't allow anybody to fix their stuff. They won't allow you to fix your own stuff. And they've basically said you never owned an Apple product you just using one.

This is my PERSONAL issues I in no way, shape, or form discourage anyone from buying one.
I bought my niece a macbook for her high school graduation. She loves it.

One day the mega giant will be forced to comply with standard practices. Just like tesla has been changing over the years.
 

Mr. Bills

TJ Enthusiast
Nov 24, 2017
985
Area Code 530
I'm just a dumb consumer who uses only a fraction of my computer's capabilities so I won't get into the niceties of competing technologies.

I use Windows-based products; my son uses Apple. I kept track of what it cost me for his i-phones, computers, etc. from junior high through college vs. what it cost me for similar non-Apple computers, peripherals and phones that I used during the same period.

The cost for Apple technology during that period was approximately 5x more than Windows/Android based technology. Does Apple stuff work 5x better? In my experience, no. Other more sophisticated users may have different experiences. For all but a few it will come down to personal preference and ease of use.

____

P.S. I own stock in Microsoft and Apple and have earned substantial profits on both. It all spends just the same.
 

mots

TJ Enthusiast
May 11, 2018
772
OH, USA
i have thought of making a "Hackintosh" myself. i would love to build my own system but still use the MacOS.
That's my daily driver at home. It's been fun. I have always used the TonyMacX86 site, guide and tools. I also run a Windows 10 Virtual Machine and some Linux VM's using VirtualBox within MacOS for the best of all worlds. Once you get a well built hack setup, you can pretty much update it like a regular Mac (if you choose the right hardware and a MacOS natively supported video card). You can also use Time Machine for backup and recovery. But, at times, there will admittedly be some nuances and some technical knowledge required to keep it updated as Apple changes things. There are also some tips and tricks to getting the Apple ecosystem working on a hack (continuity, face-time, messaging etc.), but I don't use iCloud, iTunes, or any of it really. Instead, I use the Google ecosystem and it works great between Mac, Windows, Linux, Android (Pixel phone), iOS (iPad), and Chromebook.

The wife has a legit newer generation iMac with i7, discrete graphics, retina display etc. and it costs about 2x as much as the modest hack with the same CPU performance and worse disk and graphics performance. While the iMac costs more, we wanted a set and forget solution for her so I don't have to sweat over her doing OS upgrades by herself!
 
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Jon Wildes

TJ Padawan
Supporting Member
Aug 26, 2018
210
Memphis
First thing i never said soldering to the board was bad. Employing people who cant repair it is. Sueing any third party that does fix them is bad.

I love the operating system. It is built like a brick shit house. Until apple stops with their business practices i will not own one.

For this same reason i will not buy a Tesla. I live in a major city with lots of charging stations. But only Tesla is allowed to work on it. I love the idea of NO dealership only factory stores. But even body repair has to be done by tesla. This causes Insurance to go up. Cost of repair to go up. And in the event your car gets totaled Tesla won't touch it. Even if it's been repaired. Tesla had to be sued to do the required safety recall on the airbag on totaled Tesla's that still are driving.

Apple has created a monopoly within the computer and phone industry. They won't sell parts to anybody they won't allow anybody to fix their stuff. They won't allow you to fix your own stuff. And they've basically said you never owned an Apple product you just using one.

This is my PERSONAL issues I in no way, shape, or form discourage anyone from buying one.
I bought my niece a macbook for her high school graduation. She loves it.

One day the mega giant will be forced to comply with standard practices. Just like tesla has been changing over the years.
again they all do the same thing so i guess maybe you shouldn't own any computers or phones. Samsung is again involved in the pressure to allow people to fix their phones. also other body shops can repair teslas. the Teslanomics guy on YouTube had some body work done and it wasn't by tesla. you are angry at apple for things that all companies do.
 

Boinked

TJ Addict
Jul 7, 2018
2,150
Mesa,az
again they all do the same thing so i guess maybe you shouldn't own any computers or phones. Samsung is again involved in the pressure to allow people to fix their phones. also other body shops can repair teslas. the Teslanomics guy on YouTube had some body work done and it wasn't by tesla. you are angry at apple for things that all companies do.
I can buy any Factory Samsung component regardless of type... television refrigerator dishwasher washing machine dryer or telephone computer.
Apple does not sell Factory parts to the General Public or to third-party repair companies. Not only that they will not provide any schematic drawings to third-party companies to allow them to repair their products. Up until recently if you've had your phone repaired by a third-party Apple wouldn't touch it. And has in the past disabled that device.

Tesla has started changing their ways you can buy some Tesla parts but not a lot of them. And has been forced buy multiple lawsuits to Grant access 2 factory service manuals two independent shops.

We have evolved into a throw away Society. I can vaguely remember going down to Walgreens Wood television tubes in toe the plug-in to find out which one was bad and only by the part that was bad. Now when your TV stops working we throw it in the trash(or recycle) and go down to the store and buy a new one. Because companies have made it nearly impossible to buy the parts needed to fix.

I am highly opposed to the way our society has grown away from fixing things ourselves. When companies price their components more than the value of a new product it forces us to buy the new product. Obviously it doesn't cost that much to make that component or the whole item would be more expensive.

Well you can say I'm standing on a holier than now higher moral ground stance. I feel when you buy a product you should be able to do what you want to that product without the manufacturer telling you no.

Could you imagine Jeep or any other auto manufacturer saying we're going to turn off your vehicle and disable it if you put a locker in it that isn't a factory authorized and paid for and bought from the factory and installed by the authorized dealer. The entire community would be screaming.

Why is it when an electronics company does this the first response is oh you're holier than now get off your high horse.
 
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ac_

zombicon
Supporting Member
Jun 15, 2017
3,732
AZ, United States
I can run Linux on a PC or a mac. Doesn't matter to me. I don't think I have installed windows on anything personal since Windows ME. I do have a 13" mac book pro, but mostly either use it like a tablet. (email + general surfing) Or if I am working I have linux on it too. But all of my work and home desktops are run Debian. I don't think I know as much about Windows as the OP. I have been lucky enough to never have to run windows as a desktop professionally and never had to personally either. I do have lots of raspberry pi's that I have laying around that do lots of cool things, but they are also running raspian, kodi or openelec(media servers) Raspbian is a stripped down version of Debian.

I am afraid I can't be much help. but I can honestly say I haven't ever installed or really seen windows 10 before. I was going to put it on one of my raspberry pi's because Microsoft said it was free for the pi, but when I went to download it, It turns out you have to be a member of devnet or something like that and that isn't free. So basically it is free after you pay for it. haha.

My TJ spends most of my money, I can't afford to pay for an OS too.
 

moab

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Dec 15, 2018
411
El Segundo, California
Well , I'm simply trying to navigate the 10 operating system. I can't find anything. Was trying to put some music in a thumb drive, and after plugging it in I can't find it. I guess I'll have to play with it. A lot. Most of those that have responded are in it way way way over my head.
But thank you for letting me know that 10 is good to go. But a Mac may be in my future.
I think everyone got off topic. And forgot about your original question. Which was simply how can I make Windows 10 more usable like Windows 7?

The first thing I did when I upgraded from Win7 (which I loved) to Win10. Was look up "top ten changes to make to windows 10". Or searches like that. Even "make windows 10 more like windows 7". I tweaked like ten things in windows 10 and it made it about twice as usable. It's very much like windows 7. Unlike any other upgrade in the past. They usually abandon all usability for a new set up. That confuses everyone. But windows 10 is very close to windows 7 usability. I don't recall what all the changes were. But it was basically turning crap off you didn't need. Like Cortana. And changing the layout of your menus and taskbar so that it looks more like windows always has. SO you can simply find what you need in your computer. Which pisses me off beyond belief. "Oh. You need the gear shift? We've hidden that.". (shaking my head!)

Here's a good starter search. Of things to change in windows 10:


That's one thing Apple does well. They don't mess with things that work. And don't expect people to learn a whole new OS everytime a new one is released.

Beyond that Apple can suck it. I'm not paying 5x the price for something I can build myself in a PC! And fix myself! I can build my own PC in my garage in about an hour. At about a fifth of the price. Apple is what's wrong with this world. No one wants to fix anything anymore. Just replace it. And spend 5x the money to do so. My first two computers were Apple. And I've had to use Apple products for long periods of time for work. PC is democratic. In that you can actually work on it yourself. Apple is like cable tv. Take it all or leave it. And hand me your wallet while your at it. Kind of like a mild mugging on a subway train.
 
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Jon Wildes

TJ Padawan
Supporting Member
Aug 26, 2018
210
Memphis
I think everyone got off topic. And forgot about your original question. Which was simply how can I make Windows 10 more usable like Windows 7?

The first thing I did when I upgraded from Win7 (which I loved) to Win10. Was look up "top ten changes to make to windows 10". Or searches like that. Even "make windows 10 more like windows 7". I tweaked like ten things in windows 10 and it made it about twice as usable. It's very much like windows 7. Unlike any other upgrade in the past. They usually abandon all usability for a new set up. That confuses everyone. But windows 10 is very close to windows 7 usability. I don't recall what all the changes were. But it was basically turning crap off you didn't need. Like Cortana. And changing the layout of your menus and taskbar so that it looks more like windows always has. SO you can simply find what you need in your computer. Which pisses me off beyond belief. "Oh. You need the gear shift? We've hidden that.". (shaking my head!)

Here's a good starter search. Of things to change in windows 10:


That's one thing Apple does well. They don't mess with things that work. And don't expect people to learn a whole new OS everytime a new one is released.

Beyond that Apple can suck it. I'm not paying 5x the price for something I can build myself in a PC! And fix myself! I can build my own PC in my garage in about an hour. At about a fifth of the price. Apple is what's wrong with this world. No one wants to fix anything anymore. Just replace it. And spend 5x the money to do so. My first two computers were Apple. And I've had to use Apple products for long periods of time for work. PC is democratic. In that you can actually work on it yourself. Apple is like cable tv. Take it all or leave it. And hand me your wallet while your at it. Kind of like a mild mugging on a subway train.
I’ll pay the difference simply because I don’t have to look up an article that says top 10 things to change about windows 10. Use whatever makes you happy. I’m not here trying to sway anyone you can keep hating Apple and I’ll keep using. Fair?
 
Reactions: Rapidan

Boinked

TJ Addict
Jul 7, 2018
2,150
Mesa,az
I think everyone got off topic. And forgot about your original question. Which was simply how can I make Windows 10 more usable like Windows 7?

The first thing I did when I upgraded from Win7 (which I loved) to Win10. Was look up "top ten changes to make to windows 10". Or searches like that. Even "make windows 10 more like windows 7". I tweaked like ten things in windows 10 and it made it about twice as usable. It's very much like windows 7. Unlike any other upgrade in the past. They usually abandon all usability for a new set up. That confuses everyone. But windows 10 is very close to windows 7 usability. I don't recall what all the changes were. But it was basically turning crap off you didn't need. Like Cortana. And changing the layout of your menus and taskbar so that it looks more like windows always has. SO you can simply find what you need in your computer. Which pisses me off beyond belief. "Oh. You need the gear shift? We've hidden that.". (shaking my head!)

Here's a good starter search. Of things to change in windows 10:


That's one thing Apple does well. They don't mess with things that work. And don't expect people to learn a whole new OS everytime a new one is released.

Beyond that Apple can suck it. I'm not paying 5x the price for something I can build myself in a PC! And fix myself! I can build my own PC in my garage in about an hour. At about a fifth of the price. Apple is what's wrong with this world. No one wants to fix anything anymore. Just replace it. And spend 5x the money to do so. My first two computers were Apple. And I've had to use Apple products for long periods of time for work. PC is democratic. In that you can actually work on it yourself. Apple is like cable tv. Take it all or leave it. And hand me your wallet while your at it. Kind of like a mild mugging on a subway train.
Windows 10 does have its little nuances. One thing that I do like is to create a master setting folder short cut. (God mode) really its just an easy way to find the settings you remember from the old systems.


Running windows 10 on a surface pro brings out what it was truly designed for. While it has taken me a while to get used to it. I can do things i didn't think possible.

Just one example when i have something that needs to be signed i can grab the pen sign it amd email right back. No need to print.

It switches from tablet mode to desktop mode very quickly and gives me the best of both worlds. I don't have to carry a tablet and a laptop.

It doesn't take long to master the little changes. But with everything we need to evolve and learn new things. Im sure once you get the hang of it you will find it much easier then previous versions.
 

moab

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Dec 15, 2018
411
El Segundo, California
I’ll pay the difference simply because I don’t have to look up an article that says top 10 things to change about windows 10. Use whatever makes you happy. I’m not here trying to sway anyone you can keep hating Apple and I’ll keep using. Fair?
Wasn't trying to start an Apple/PC war bud. Just my humble opinion. It took me 15 minutes to change those 10 settings if that. So for 15 minutes of my time. No. I won't pay 5x's the price. And the cool thing was they were mostly settings you could never have access to in an Apple. And so easy to change a 5th grader could do it.

But don't get me wrong. I've used both a lot. And I see the allure of Apple. If all you're doing is emailing and going on the internet. And aren't particularly good with computers. Or don't know how to download, install and set automatic updates on a firewall and antivirus program - one time. And have a couple grand to spend on a PC and monitor. Then yes, I see the allure. I wish my 76 yr old mother would buy one. Not that she can afford it - she can't. Maybe then I wouldn't have to keep explaining the difference between a file and a folder. lol. But maybe not. ;) I see the need for a "simple" computer. But why does it have to cost 5x's as much?

My father died last year. We tried as hard as we could to drag him into the 21st Century. Mainly so we could see and talk to him on video chat. But he wasn't budging. Maybe if we could have afforded a MAC he might have taken the leap. IDK. Maybe not. I formatted a tablet for him. With four large simple buttons on the home screen. Like email, internet, skype and one other thing. I forget. But he still couldn't wrap his head around it. Still couldn't bring himself to answer a video call. Even with the ring tone set to the same one on his fliphone. My point is it's very possible to set up a simple android or windows environment for someone with limited computer knowledge.

But this is where I see the Mac excelling. To bad they've priced themselves out of the realm of general society. Those very people - the disadvantaged - that the computer was supposed to help are left out in the cold when it comes to a Mac. And those are the very same people that could benefit from a simpler OS, that never changes, and doesn't allow them access to any settings that might mess up their computer.

But if you want something you can build and fix yourself. And you would like say 4 or 5 computers instead of one. PC's are the way to go. If it weren't for PC's my business would never run. There's no way I could afford to purchase and maintain multiple Mac's. Or multiple $1000 iPhones. Or whatever iPhones go for now.

I spend probably twice as much on my son's Mac and iPhone as I do on both my wife and I's PC's and Android phones put together. The glass doesn't break everytime I look at my Android. Unlike just about every other iPhone user I've known. My nephews have gone thru multiple screens. My sons twice in one year. I can't add memory to his iPhone like I can with our androids. Unless I buy a new $1000 iPhone. And until just recently I could use as many batteries as I wanted in my Android. (Shame on Android for that. But more shame on Apple for never allowing that.)

My point is Apple wants to control you like a communist nation. It's like being sold a car that comes in 5 colors, that your not allowed to work on or fix, you can't even buy parts for from an independent retailer, and to get parts or any repairs you have to go thru the dealership. Your locked into their proprietary program of selling you stuff - at the highest dollar possible - that you can only get from one company. In a non flexible format. That is great for some. I admit. But very limiting for everyone else. It's kind of like how the cable industry created the US's largest monopoly. You can either go with who services your area - or you can go f yourself. lol. Thankfully there's satellite tv now.

I guess I'm just old fashioned. Or just plain old. lol. ;) But I want to be able to 1) afford the products I need 2) be able to work on them myself if need be. I'm old school like that. I can't afford to be a slave to the dealership. And work 5x's the hours to pay for a repair I could easily do myself. Or have an independant shop (that creates more jobs) fix it for me at a reasonable rate. Or enjoy the flexibility of personalizing my own computer as I see fit. There was a day when you could build and repair an Apple clone. But not anymore.

It just seems like a dumbing down of society. And everyone is falling for it. "Buy our shinier widget. Cause it's "simpler". But don't go get all high and mighty like your gonna fix this yourself! Your not. And we don't allow it! Now hand me your wallet. And go back to work. We've increased your hours to cover this loss. Your welcome!". I'm probably gonna sound like a nut. But that's un-American. A term I almost never use.

But again, this is just my opinion. And neither of us are going to win this debate. Of that I am sure. But when you really boil it down. I don't see 5x times the value in a MAC. Versus a $500 PC. And I couldn't afford it - even if I wanted to. But even if I could afford it. And there have been many times in my life when I could have easily afforded a fleet of Macs. (I've got a kid in a very expensive college. Read - broke college parents! lol.) I would still choose a PC.

So maybe it's a good thing that both exist. The people that can afford a simple computer, that they can only go to the dealership to get fixed, can get the simple computer. And the rest of us that can't afford it. Get the computer you can build yourself, repair yourself, and learn something beyond word on. I see the value of both. I really do.

There are guys that drive Teslas and there are guys that drive Jeeps. And there are guys that drive both. :) The cool thing is - we get to decide - which philosophy we want to choose. :) My point is there is a big difference in those philosophies.
 
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Jon Wildes

TJ Padawan
Supporting Member
Aug 26, 2018
210
Memphis
Yeah I think it’s important to understand and remember that markets are different not everyone is the same. That in its self isn’t “un-American” finding and filling a need is the way the world of Capitalism works. Plus if you go into any art or entertainment space you don’t typically find windows. You find apple. They have their niche. I would just ask that you respect that and stop calling it un-American and talking down about it’s users. Also my MacBook Air only cost me $850 with a student discount. That’s far from selling a kidney on the black market to pay for it. 5x is quite a stretch. I think you may need to take a look at pricing again. 21.5” IMac starts at like $1050. I think that’s pretty affordable. And I am the guy that will drive my Jeep on the weekends and then my Tesla to work. I’m not hating on Windows hell I have one. But if I’m being honest I hate the operating system. I hated it before I was a Mac user. I wanted a Mac before I knew what it was. When I finally bought it and it was just simple and easy to use I was sold. That’s my story. I still have a windows pc I use it occasionally. Mainly because I haven’t bought an iMac.
 

danof76

TJ Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Nov 21, 2018
319
San Antonio, TX
Windows 10 has just been bothering me lately. I've never had a job outside computers, been a computer nerd since I was a kid and using Windows since 3.1. Windows 10 is just too inconsistent, between the literal five different checkboxes of Explorer, the fact it is LONG overdue for an update, dealing with Settings and Control Panel and being constantly annoyed with the results and just general weird gremlins here and there I'm over Windows.

If I hadn't just bought a new PC a little over a year ago I'd suck it up and get a new MacBook Air instead. I do miss the days of running my X220 with Windows 7. I used an X220 up until I got this new PC because I couldn't resist a nice, new, slim, lightweight PC with tons of battery life.

That X220 (mine was an i7 that came with USB 3) though was like the TJ of the laptop world. Incredibly easy to work on, nearly everything was replaceable and there were more than enough upgrades, hacks and mods to keep it running with the best of them. It even had a bit of that "last gen" charm to it I like so much about the TJ.