Woodrow's 97 Green TJ Moderate Build

[Woodrow]

Went for Jeep ride today up in the mountains with my wife and our dogs as an alternative to Black Friday.

It took 4hrs to go 60 miles and we saw 1 pickup with a camper on the side of the road and a side-by-side and no other people (gotta love rural Oregon). We passed through the Archie Creek Fire area from 2020. That fire destroyed the Rock Creek fish hatchery and several sections of the North Umpqua Trail (as well as a few homes in this beautiful area). This is Rock Creek a few miles upstream of the hatchery.

Here we are beginning to transition out of the burn area:

Up high, mostly on the north facing sides, we found some old snow (melted then frozen). We stopped at a wide spot for some leg stretching. Dogs loved it and were undeterred by the total lack of traction. Later, my wife was mildly deterred by the ice as we were skittering down narrow, steep grades with no guardrails

Looking South, you can just see multiple lenticular clouds over the volcano at the center of the horizon in the distance (poor pic. Mt. Shasta?)

On the way down, we saw a small bobcat (another poor pic). You don’t see these guys much (probably my 3rd in 20 years here). I’ve actually seen mountain lions about twice as often.

Over all, a good day and no shopping!

 

[Woodrow]

9” of travel at all 4 corners:

With my increased ride height in the rear after the hind end refresh (now just over 4” of lift) and after optimizing the shock spring situation in front (also over 4” of lift), I wondered if the rear shocks were all they could be. They are Bilstein B5100 24-185264 for a 3“ lift-which is all the information I looked for at the time of purchase In 2019. Those shocks replaced some rusty but really burly looking PO installed Skyjacker (9000s?) and they resulted in a huge improvement in ride quality. Since then, I haven’t really had any ride complaints on our local smooth country roads or on low speed off road stuff. However, I did think the TJ rode a little harsh in the city on a recent trip to Portland.

So, now armed with forum knowledge about shock travel, compressed and extended length, and ride height, rear suspension cycling showed that although my bump stops where well matched for my uptravel (both shock and tire to fender), I was leaving almost 2” of downtravel unused because of insufficient extended shock length. Disconnecting the shocks showed that I could drop the axle almost 2“ further without beginning to unseat the springs. Also, there was no driveshaft bind at the greater droop. Therefore, I decided I needed new rear shocks with similar compressed length but longer extended length.

Here are the specs on the current rear Bilsteins (24-185264):
8.44” travel / 23.07” ext / 14.63” comp

Bilstein makes 2 TJ rear compatible shocks with the same specs (33-185514 and 33-185934), presumably different valving:
9.59” travel / 25.0” ext / 15.41” comp

Then I found the Skyjacker BlackMax B8528:
10.02” travel / 24.84” ext / 14.82” comp
Perfect

That gave 1.77” additional down travel while loosing only 0.19” up travel which really wasn’t a loss because of my bump stops. I got those and some new Mopar upper shock bolts as well as new zinc plated 1/2“ grade 8 lower bolts:

Other advantages include:
1) ability to run the BlackMax shocks inverted which eliminates clearance issues at lower spring perch

2) almost half the price
3) softer ride? We will see.

Potential downsides?
1) quality/durability issues?
2) ride weirdness due to different shock types F/R?
Again, we will see…

A preliminary test ride felt good. Can’t really say they are a magic carpet, though. Need more seat time.

The BIG deal in my mind is F/R balance and up/down travel matching. With my present springs and bump stops, the current front Bilstein 24-188180 and rear BlackMax B 8528 shocks provide roughly 9” of travel at all 4 corners. In addition, the new Currie front springs have settled some and F/R ride heights each now split the 9” of travel almost perfectly at 4.5” up and down

 

[Woodrow]

Sway Loc:

Up until now, I have been using the stock front sway bar with JKS quicker disconnects. That’s OK, but a little cumbersome to use and somewhat unstable off camber. Based on many good reviews on this forum, an ORO Sway Loc dual rate sway bar (manual) was ordered and I installed it today.

Thanks to the documented struggles and advice of others (well summed up in this thread by @toximus : https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/lesson-learned-installing-swayloc.21267/), the installation was straight forward. The bushings fit well in the frame and over the outer rod. @mrblaine ’s trick of using a long threaded rod, large washers and tubes would be good if they were too tight, but in my case a block of wood and a 3# hammer was all it took.

A small amount of clearancing was needed on the driver’s arm to clear the steering box bolts:

and on the back of my stubby stock bumper for the arm clamp bolts:

The interference fit of the arms over the outer and inner bars is tight as others have noted, but driving a screwdriver or chisel into the gap made it easy to slide them on. After that I set the link arm length as long as possible to still allow full up travel in the shortest hole and tightened everything up. (I still need to cut and replace my Mopar end caps for a cleaner look)

Edit: Here are the modified end caps re-installed.

I started with the links all the way back (softest setting). In on road mode, stiffness felt like stock. In off road mode, full front flex could easily be achieved. I may try 1 or 2 holes firmer as I think the front unlocked is actually a litter softer than the rear at present.

Its also worth noting how easy and quick is to switch from one mode to the other. Another great upgrade in the same weekend.

 

[Mike_H]

Sway Loc:

Up until now, I have been using the stock front sway bar with JKS quicker disconnects. That’s OK, but a little cumbersome to use and somewhat unstable off camber. Based on many good reviews on this forum, an ORO Sway Loc dual rate sway bar (manual) was ordered and I installed it today.
View attachment 381566
Thanks to the documented struggles and advice of others (well summed up in this thread by @toximus : https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/lesson-learned-installing-swayloc.21267/), the installation was straight forward. The bushings fit well in the frame and over the outer rod. @mrblaine ’s trick of using a long threaded rod, large washers and tubes would be good if they were too tight, but in my case a block of wood and a 3# hammer was all it took.
View attachment 381568
A small amount of clearancing was needed on the driver’s arm to clear the steering box bolts:
View attachment 381570

View attachment 381575
and on the back of my stubby stock bumper for the arm clamp bolts:
View attachment 381574

View attachment 381576
The interference fit of the arms over the outer and inner bars is tight as others have noted, but driving a screwdriver or chisel into the gap made it easy to slide them on. After that I set the link arm length as long as possible to still allow full up travel in the shortest hole and tightenEd everything up. (I still need to cut and replace my Mopar end caps for a cleaner look)
View attachment 381577

View attachment 381578
I started with the links all the way back (softest setting). In on road mode, stiffness felt like stock. In off road mode, full front flex could easily be achieved. I may try 1 or 2 holes firmer as I think the front unlocked is actually a litter softer than the rear at present.
View attachment 381572

View attachment 381573Its also worth noting how very easy and quick is to switch from one mode to the other. Another great upgrade In the same weekend.
View attachment 381585

If you have the opportunity to wheel in mud, make sure to throw some extra water in your trail kit. The lock can bind up with dirt. A quick flush is generally all it takes to free up again.

 

[kiwi]

Sway Loc:

Up until now, I have been using the stock front sway bar with JKS quicker disconnects. That’s OK, but a little cumbersome to use and somewhat unstable off camber. Based on many good reviews on this forum, an ORO Sway Loc dual rate sway bar (manual) was ordered and I installed it today.
View attachment 381566
Thanks to the documented struggles and advice of others (well summed up in this thread by @toximus : https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/lesson-learned-installing-swayloc.21267/), the installation was straight forward. The bushings fit well in the frame and over the outer rod. @mrblaine ’s trick of using a long threaded rod, large washers and tubes would be good if they were too tight, but in my case a block of wood and a 3# hammer was all it took.
View attachment 381568
A small amount of clearancing was needed on the driver’s arm to clear the steering box bolts:
View attachment 381570

View attachment 381575
and on the back of my stubby stock bumper for the arm clamp bolts:
View attachment 381574

View attachment 381576
The interference fit of the arms over the outer and inner bars is tight as others have noted, but driving a screwdriver or chisel into the gap made it easy to slide them on. After that I set the link arm length as long as possible to still allow full up travel in the shortest hole and tightened everything up. (I still need to cut and replace my Mopar end caps for a cleaner look)
View attachment 381577

View attachment 381578
Edit: Here are the modified end caps re-installed.
View attachment 381760
I started with the links all the way back (softest setting). In on road mode, stiffness felt like stock. In off road mode, full front flex could easily be achieved. I may try 1 or 2 holes firmer as I think the front unlocked is actually a litter softer than the rear at present.
View attachment 381572

View attachment 381573Its also worth noting how easy and quick is to switch from one mode to the other. Another great upgrade in the same weekend.
View attachment 381585

Did u notice any major improvement on road?

 

[Woodrow]

Did u notice any major improvement on road?

So far, I’m set in the rearmost hole on the arm (softest). It feels like the stock bar in on road mode. In off road mode, the front is maybe slightly softer than the stock rear bar when flexing. I say this because the front axle reaches full flex slightly before the rear. So my plan is to move the link 1 or 2 holes closer to the bar. The goal is to balance the front and rear in off road mode, but that should also make it a little firmer on road. We’ll see if it’s noticeable.

 

[Woodrow]

Yesterday the exhaust got real loud all the sudden. A quick inspection revealed the JBA stainless header separated at the 2-into-1 collector:

I have heard of headers cracking, of course, but I had hoped the flex coupling in the header pipe (in front of the oil pan) would prevent this. Looking back at some old pics of the stroker before install, that particular weld may have been cold/underpentrated:

The heat wrap ending very close to the weld also may have caused a sharp demarcation in heating and cooling rates right at the wrong spot? I bought the JBA header from Chad Golen when I bought the stroker. He said he’d had better luck with this header than others, including Banks. I gave him a call Friday afternoon and left a message during business hours but no response yet. I doubt any warranty at over 1 year but I would like his thoughts/suggestions.

So, today I pulled the intake and header:

Upon closer inspection, the weld doesn’t look perfect. There must have been some cracking preceding the total failure, but I didn’t hear any ticking:

I’m going to take the header in and talk to a local guy I know who is a great TIG welder and engine tuner before I decide how to move forward. Options include; re-weld the header (TIG), replace w/ Mopar or knock-off stock style (which have bellows to increase flexibility), or get another hopefully better header (e.g. Banks or aFe). At this point, I have no good data to guide me re performance and reliability of those options.

Oh well, I have other vehicles I can daily and while the Jeep is down and I can do some other mods while I collect knowledge and parts…

 

[Woodrow]

I just looked this up:

JBA WARRANTY​

All JBA headers and exhaust products are guaranteed, to the original purchaser, to be free of defects in materials and workmanship for one year. This warranty covers the replacement or repair of the product only and does not cover the cost of removal and installation, customer applied aftermarket coatings or any discoloration or corrosion of finished surfaces. Damage or product failure resulting from collision, improper installation, off-road use, road hazards, the use of exhaust insulating wrap or like products or rust occurring after installation, is not covered by the warranty. The warranty extends only to the original purchaser. Should a part become defective it should be returned to the original selling retailer and must be accompanied with the sales receipt. If there is no retailer in your area, call the factory for a return authorization and return your part prepaid to the factory for inspection. PerTronix reserves the rights to replace or repair the alleged defective part and return the part freight collect.

It’s beyond a year, I did use exhaust wrap and it’s a Jeep so out of luck there. Bummer though because looking at the last pic in the post above you can outlines of the saw cut from the collector in the weld still on the 2 pipes. Again, I’m no welding expert but that sure seems like a cold weld.

 

[Woodrow]

I decided on a Banks Torque Tube/Revolver header and it arrived.

It looked OK. A brief test mount suggested it will fit. So, I sent it off for ceramic coat to a place near Tacoma Washington that @Wildman has had a good experience with. Some research suggests that may be a better option than heat wrap. I wanted to do something to keep heat away from the intake. Theoretically, keeping the heat in the exhaust increases velocity and scavenging which might help low end torque?? Not holding my breath but may also protect the header from heat/cool cycling a little.

Meanwhile, lots of other stuff to do to reduce the chance I’ll embarass myself in Moab in June. First, the rear tru-trac/e-locker swap is great. So the front tru-trac is to be swapped for an e-locker as well. As I will retain the 4.11 ring and pinion, before I pulled the guts out of the Dana 30, I checked a pattern on the gears:

To my inexperienced eye, that looks OK. So I’ll plan to start with the same shims.
Also checked the pinion preload which seemed alright for a used set up:

Next, all out and some cleaning (as always when pulling parts):

I also painted the 27 spline 4340 axle shafts because they were starting to show some rust after 2 yrs despite being chro-moly.

Hopefully, this week I’ll get the ring swapped over to the e-locker and check/adjust the current shims with set up bearings, press on the new carrier bearings and reassemble the axle. I will need to wire the e-locker too.

But the Jeep is still down until intake and exhaust are back together

 

[Rickyd]

A lot of great work and good info, woody!
You have me reevaluating my choice of 9132f1s and 9131rh. My jeep is pretty heavy but I'm surprised by your lift amount. I need to weigh my jeep and then consult with curry i think.

Sorry to see the jba snapped in half. Was your exhaust hanging freely after the tummy tuck?did you loosen and retighten the exhaust connection at the collector after changing its angle from the tuck?exhaust under tension tends to break parts like that. I've had no issues with the banks header in 20k miles. I hope it works for you as well.

A little trick i used to help reflect exhaust heat was put adhesive backed insulation on the underside of my intake.used this stuff-
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00029KC2K/?tag=wranglerorg-20

 

[Woodrow]

A lot of great work and good info, woody!
You have me reevaluating my choice of 9132f1s and 9131rh. My jeep is pretty heavy but I'm surprised by your lift amount. I need to weigh my jeep and then consult with curry i think.

Sorry to see the jba snapped in half. Was your exhaust hanging freely after the tummy tuck?did you loosen and retighten the exhaust connection at the collector after changing its angle from the tuck?exhaust under tension tends to break parts like that. I've had no issues with the banks header in 20k miles. I hope it works for you as well.

A little trick i used to help reflect exhaust heat was put adhesive backed insulation on the underside of my intake.used this stuff-
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00029KC2K/?tag=wranglerorg-20

Yes, the entire system was loosened, adjusted and re-tightened with the mods for the tuck. I thought it was pretty happy as it was
That's an interesting trick on your intake. I do have DEI heat shield around the fuel rail and injectors.

 

[Woodrow]

I worked on my front Dana 30 tru-trac to e-locker swap today.
Got the bearings pressed off the tru-trac and measured the shims so I have a starting point for the e-locker. Even though the e-locker will use the same 27 spline 4340 chromoly shafts, the carrier bearings (and shims) are the larger super 30 size (LM102949 bearing and LM102911 race). The tru-trac bearing is LM501349-N and the race is LM501314-N.
Here is the e-locker partially disassembled so I can install the ring gear.

Before installing the ring gear, the holes and new bolts were cleaned with brake cleaner and dried w/ compressed air. The bolts were installed w/ red loc-tite and torqued to 55ft.lbs.

As I am reusing my ring and pinion which only have around 5-7K miles on them, I didn’t need to mess with the pinion which is nice as this is my first independent gear set up. I did check the pinion preload which was within spec for used gears (6-8 in.lbs.) at 8 in.lbs.

As an aside, it feels like I’m slowly wading out toward the deep end of DIY Jeep stuff pool…

Next, I began the carrier bearing and shim set up. I bought 2 Timken super 30 carrier bearing sets and made one into setup bearings with a die grinder and 60 grit, 1.5” flap wheel. These are necessary because the shims go under the bearings on the Dana 30, unlike the Dana 35 where they sit outboard so you can press on the bearings and then mess with the shims all you want. I started with the same shim thicknesses as with the tru-trac on each side. With that set up, lash was tight at 0.003” (spec is 0.006-0.010”) and pre-load was pretty snug. So I took out 0.006“ on the passenger/ring side. Now lash was low end of spec at 0.006” but carrier preload seemed slightly light. Here are the patterns:
Coast looks good (more important with used gears)

Drive looks kinda deep

So, to increase preload and perhaps make the drive side less deep, I added 0.003” to the pinion/drivers side. Lash increased to middle of spec at 0.008” and pre-load felt better. Here are the patterns:
Coast still good

Drive slightly better?

I shared these pics and numbers with the mechanic who has done gears for me in the past. We decided to focus on the good lash spec and coast pattern and accept the drive pattern as these are used gears. That’s enough for tonight.

 

[Wildman]

Good job on the installation. You always do amazing work.

 

[Woodrow]

Hold up, one more thing: I walked outside and low and behold, the Banks header arrived back from ceramic coating (Performance Coatings in Auburn up near Tacoma, WA). Fast! They only received it 3 days ago. Looks pretty. This is the 2000 deg “shiny aluminum” finish. They also have a more polished looking chromex which is the show car choice, but it’s only rated for 1300 degrees.

Thanks @Wildman for the tip on these guys. Brad was great to deal with. He didn’t even want payment until they sent it back. Now I feel bad it won’t be until Monday.

 

[Rickyd]

I worked on my front Dana 30 tru-trac to e-locker swap today.
Got the bearings pressed off the tru-trac and measured the shims so I have a starting point for the e-locker. Even though the e-locker will use the same 27 spline 4340 chromoly shafts, the carrier bearings (and shims) are the larger super 30 size (LM102949 bearing and LM102911 race). The tru-trac bearing is LM501349-N and the race is LM501314-N.
Here is the e-locker partially disassembled so I can install the ring gear.
View attachment 393732
Before installing the ring gear, the holes and new bolts were cleaned with brake cleaner and dried w/ compressed air. The bolts were installed w/ red loc-tite and torqued to 55ft.lbs.

As I am reusing my ring and pinion which only have around 5-7K miles on them, I didn’t need to mess with the pinion which is nice as this is my first independent gear set up. I did check the pinion preload which was within spec for used gears (6-8 in.lbs.) at 8 in.lbs.

As an aside, it feels like I’m slowly wading out toward the deep end of DIY Jeep stuff pool…

Next, I began the carrier bearing and shim set up. I bought 2 Timken super 30 carrier bearing sets and made one into setup bearings with a die grinder and 60 grit, 1.5” flap wheel. These are necessary because the shims go under the bearings on the Dana 30, unlike the Dana 35 where they sit outboard so you can press on the bearings and then mess with the shims all you want. I started with the same shim thicknesses as with the tru-trac on each side. With that set up, lash was tight at 0.003” (spec is 0.006-0.010”) and pre-load was pretty snug. So I took out 0.006“ on the passenger/ring side. Now lash was low end of spec at 0.006” but carrier preload seemed slightly light. Here are the patterns:
Coast looks good (more important with used gears)
View attachment 393743
Drive looks kinda deep
View attachment 393745
So, to increase preload and perhaps make the drive side less deep, I added 0.003” to the pinion/drivers side. Lash increased to middle of spec at 0.008” and pre-load felt better. Here are the patterns:
Coast still good
View attachment 393747
Drive slightly better?
View attachment 393748
I shared these pics and numbers with the mechanic who has done gears for me in the past. We decided to focus on the good lash spec and coast pattern and accept the drive pattern as these are used gears. That’s enough for tonight.

Do you know what backlash was when the truetrac was in? Assuming the pattern was correct all you need to do changing carriers is set backlash the same as the previous carrier.

Also,when when using setup bearings make sure you have the preload on them nice and tight. Pressing the final bearings on them will compress the shim pack quite a bit and can change shim pack thickness if you aren't careful

Header looks good! A lot better than my banks

 

[Woodrow]

Good job on the installation. You always do amazing work.

Thank you. I know you’ve done a lot of gears, but its new to me and fun to think about.

 

[Wildman]

Hold up, one more thing: I walked outside and low and behold, the Banks header arrived back from ceramic coating (Performance Coatings in Auburn up near Tacoma, WA). Fast! They only received it 3 days ago. Looks pretty. This is the 2000 deg “shiny aluminum” finish. They also have a more polished looking chromex which is the show car choice, but it’s only rated for 1300 degrees.
View attachment 393750
Thanks @Wildman for the tip on these guys. Brad was great to deal with. He didn’t even want payment until they sent it back. Now I feel bad it won’t be until Monday.

That is that same color I think that they did my Y-pipe in. I think you'll like it & yes they were great people to deal with. I plan on taking my Harley exhaust to them next.

Thank you. I know you’ve done a lot of gears, but it new to me and fun to think about.

I've done a few gear sets but I can remember when I started. Keep at it I'm sure you'll do great.

 

[Woodrow]

Do you know what backlash was when the truetrac was in? Assuming the pattern was correct all you need to do changing carriers is set backlash the same as the previous carrier.

Also,when when using setup bearings make sure you have the preload on them nice and tight. Pressing the final bearings on them will compress the shim pack quite a bit and can change shim pack thickness if you aren't careful

Header looks good! A lot better than my banks

Yeah… so… no. After I pressed off the tru-trac bearings, I realized I hadn’t checked the lash. I did run a pattern, which looks similar, although not identical. In talking to my mechanic friend earlier, he also mentioned the importance of matching the original backlash. I haven’t pressed on the finals though, so if I press the tru-trac bearings and shims back on it, I can check the tru-trac lash and adjust the e-locker if necessary. Thanks for the tips

 

[Rickyd]

You'll get it I'm sure.

 

[Woodrow]

Taking a break from the front axle, the banks header went on today:

All buttoned up and running again. The sound is nice, better previous JBA header. Too bad that pretty ceramic coat isn’t really visable.

The header pipe connection is not as tension free as I’d like (don’t want to break another header). So that’s on the todo list.