Would stock fenders be a limiting factor with coilovers?

Chris

Chris

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I had a long conversation with GenRight today via phone. They're very nice people, and we talked about a lot of stuff.

My main purpose for calling was to order their outboard shock mount brackets.

Somehow we ended up on the topic of coilovers, and I had mentioned to him that my dream build would be a V8 with a full coiler suspension, etc.

He started asking me about my current build and I told him all about it. He had mentioned I actually could use coilovers as my Jeep sits now, but I'd have to run 12" travel coilovers, since the 14" travel ones would make my Jeep look silly on 35s, but also that they would barely clear the wheels since I have stock width axles. He said the 12" travel ones would work though, and that he could make me a very good deal on everything I needed to run coilovers with the mid-arm. He also went into great detail about how they are one of the few companies who actually specializes in setup up coilovers, tuning them, and making sure you get a coilover that is tuned to your specific Jeep, and will actually ride decent. He brought this up because he said he hears it all the time that everyone complains about the issue with coilovers is that no one ever takes the time to set them up.

Okay, so now he's got me thinking about this. But now I'm wondering (and I should have just asked him this). With a coilover setup on the mid-arm suspension, am I limiting myself with stock fenders?

I've seen the hoop style system that has to be put in place to run the front coilovers, and it clearly requires a lot of cutting of the inner fenders, as well as a big brace over the top of the engine.

I'm not sure if this would even work with stock fenders. One thing is for sure, I've never once seen a TJ with coilovers on stock width axles and stock fenders, so I'm not sure if there's something big I'm missing here.

I'm not suspension guru like some of you guys, so I'm hoping some more knowledgeable members can chime in on this one.
 
Sub'd for sheer curiosity. I havent researched coil overs enough to even have an opinion.
 
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I think you would be ok. Just from looking at a picture or 20
2nd picture is a JK.
0702-4wd-01-z+jeep-tj-coilover-system+suspension-view.jpg
2007-jeep-wrangler-unlimited-king-coliovers.jpg
 
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A 12" Fox 2.0 is 19.6" long compressed, 31.75" extended. That has to fit somewhere. How does a 12" travel coilover compare?

Axle width is a big consideration. Full bump might work, but I see the tires rubbing hard at flex. What about the rear? It is difficult to go beyond 12" of travel with the short driveshaft.
 
jjvw said:
A 12" Fox 2.0 is 19.6" long compressed, 31.75" extended. That has to fit somewhere. How does a 12" travel coilover compare?

Axle width is a big consideration. Full bump might work, but I see the tires rubbing hard at flex. What about the rear? It is difficult to go beyond 12" of travel with the short driveshaft.
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Yes, you're right. But with those coilovers, the way those things mount to the frame are a lot different than the way the stock shocks are mounted. They go up through the inner fender, almost to the point of touching the hood. I'm not sure if the stock fenders can still be utilized at that point, that's the big question.

And yes, the rear driveshaft is a limiting factor as well. But, the plan is to stretch the rear a few inches according to the shop, which should be possible with that GenRight tank.

The guy at GenRight was telling me that the 14" travel coilovers wouldn't work anyways unless I had full width axles. He said they might work, but the issue would be how close they'd be to the wheel / tire, as they are apparently a bigger diameter than the 12" travel coilover.

Would be interesting to hear from @toximus, though he hasn't been online in a long time.
 
As far as bracketry goes, there isn't much difference between a coil over and a big shock. The Poly Performance towers commonly used on TJs for outboarding and relocating shocks are technically for coilovers. The issue, as you described, is finding and making the room.

On mine, I would like to eventually put 12" Foxes up front without a highline and I expect to cut open the inner fender to make room for the upper mount. I also halfway expect to change the frame side front track bar mount to accommodate the additional travel, but I need to take a closer look at that.
 
jjvw said:
As far as bracketry goes, there isn't much difference between a coil over and a big shock. The Poly Performance towers commonly used on TJs for outboarding and relocating shocks are technically for coilovers. The issue, as you described, is finding and making the room.

On mine, I would like to eventually put 12" Foxes up front without a highline and I expect to cut open the inner fender to make room for the upper mount. I also halfway expect to change the frame side front track bar mount to accommodate the additional travel, but I need to take a closer look at that.
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I just don't know how stubborn I'm being about keeping the stock fenders. I really, really dislike the look of aftermarket fenders. They look stupid to me, with the exception of maybe the GenRight fenders, which I think might look good if they were painted black, with the body portion painted to match the body.

However, this is purely speaking from a cosmetic standpoint. I realize I may have to sacrifice some function in order to gain some form, and I'm okay with that if necessary.

He was wiling to give me such a smokin' deal on the coilovers and all the bracketry and parts I need (he literally made a list and emailed it to me of all the parts I'd need and the cost), that now I'm seriously considering this. If I'm already doing the mid-arm lift, doing this at the same time would make a lot of sense I suppose.

And FYI, due to a 3 hour long conversation with Chris Sines and some serious issues with Dave and his worth ethic, I'm no longer having Dave do his mid-arm. Chris recommended (and I will be following his recommendation) that I pick my TJ up from them and take it home.

That being said, I ordered a Savvy mid-arm and I'll have someone else install it for me.

I don't want to air the dirty laundry with Dave on the forum since I have a lot of respect for his knowledge and skill. However, I will say (and @psrivats along with many others will agree with me on this), that he has no idea whatsoever how to run a business... not a single bit. To say I'm pissed off with him would be an understatement.
 
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That sucks. Ive seen him mentioned many times on here as a reliable go-to guy for those on the west coast. Well...you wont hate the Savvy I bet!
 
tworley said:
That sucks. Ive seen him mentioned many times on here as a reliable go-to guy for those on the west coast. Well...you wont hate the Savvy I bet!
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With the deal I got on that Savvy mid-arm, I won't hate it at all!

Fortunately there's a number of other off-road shops around here with very good reputations. I found one called Hamm's Off-Road who builds some very crazy TJs and JKs. Their fab work looks excellent, and his prices are very fair.

I think he's going to be the one to install this mid-arm for me.
 
Chris said:
I don't want to air the dirty laundry with Dave on the forum since I have a lot of respect for his knowledge and skill. However, I will say (and @psrivats along with many others will agree with me on this), that he has no idea whatsoever how to run a business... not a single bit. To say I'm pissed off with him would be an understatement.
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😲 Didn’t expect this. I was following your build and was waiting to see what Dave was doing.
 
Daryl said:
😲 Didn’t expect this. I was following your build and was waiting to see what Dave was doing.
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Trust me, I wasn't expecting it either. But after all of this stuff came to light, I just wish I had known it all from the start. There's a lot of people who are really angry with Dave about his work ethic. In fact, I heard that a lot of it was playing out publicly on Facebook this week.

@psrivats and I have the same experience, as Dave was working (or supposed to be working) on his Jeep as well.

Anyways, hopefully I have better luck with these other guys. I would have liked to have tried his lift, but @jjvw speaks very highly of his Savvy mid-arm, so I doubt I'll be disappointed.
 
You'll like it, especially with the supporting mods that all compliment each other. The whole is larger than the sum of the parts.

I was looking forward to seeing the other, but I'll get over it.
 
jjvw said:
You'll like it, especially with the supporting mods that all compliment each other. The whole is larger than the sum of the parts.

I was looking forward to seeing the other, but I'll get over it.
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Chris Sines (who owns Bones Customs, where Dave works out of) told me he's driven both the Savvy and Dave's mid-arm. He said the different is at slower speeds on off-road trails. He said there's so much more control with the rear track bar than there is without it, and the rear end feels nice and planted over the most uneven of terrain.

He was really raving about Dave's mid-arm lift and how great it was on the phone last night, which is interesting he would say such a thing given what the conversation was actually about.
 
Chris said:
Chris Sines (who owns Bones Customs, where Dave works out of) told me he's driven both the Savvy and Dave's mid-arm. He said the different is at slower speeds on off-road trails. He said there's so much more control with the rear track bar than there is without it, and the rear end feels nice and planted over the most uneven of terrain.

....
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All other things being the same, that would likely be the roll center provided by the track bar. That is why it is interesting that Dave's rear is a 4 link + track bar, rather than a 3 link + track bar. I want to understand that better.
 
Hopefully, other Chris doesn't get himself in trouble. :)

Business is tough. A creative genius often needs a good supporting manager. Those are hard relationships to find and build.
 
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jjvw said:
Hopefully, other Chris doesn't get himself in trouble. :)

Business is tough. A creative genius often needs a good supporting manager. Those are hard relationships to find and build.
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Yeah, I'm going to remove that last post. I don't want that out there publicly right at the moment.

My personal opinion of this is that I respect Dave 100% in terms of knowledge and skill. However, he has zero clue whatsoever about how to run a business.

People like that can benefit from a manager who manages them, the business, and their time.

There's nothing wrong with that either. Some people just do better when they can put their skills to use and have someone else handle the management stuff. Nothing wrong with that at all!
 
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The big plus for coilovers is the ability to change the spring combination, this changing the ride to your liking. So will Genright exchange the springs at no cost to you? I just had this conversation with the shop working on my Jeep. At this point I’m just looking at outboarding because of the time and effort it would take to get the “right” feel for me. You’re much more knowledge than I so maybe it’s not as big of a deal for you. I just can’t see myself taking trips with the shop to keep adjusting the setup.

He also mentioned the problem with the fenders, driveshaft and the adjustments that would be needed there. And the limited amount gained without hacking up the Jeep or changing axles.

I’m waiting on a quote for outboarding and moving the spring perch. After talking to him and emailing Filthy Motors both thought Kings with remote reservoirs would be a great fit. And don’t for get the adjustment knob that can be added on.I’m planning on beating mine more than you’re and told both of them that. But coilovers are the end all that’s why I was looking too. Can’t upgrade after that.

Im assuming genright quoted you King coilovers?
 
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