Yet another misfire

TheDWord

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2022
Messages
44
Location
Carson City, NV
2001 TJ 4.0 Auto

I’ve been dealing with a misfire for a while now and it’s time to resort to some direct help from the community. I’ve been following forum advice as much as possible through this process but I’m still stuck. Through everything I’ve done the misfire has remained on 6, P0306 code. Slightly rough at idle when cold smooths after warming. Generally don’t feel the miss when driving until 1500ish RPM, then it’s rough all the way through. If I put distance on it more cylinders will pick up a miss, usually 5 come second. Seems to be worse after warming up.

So. Many. Fixes. Attempted before coming here to post about my woes! I’ve probably gone through some parts that were more than necessary but I just want this misfire to go away. I’ll list everything I’ve tried in the order I tried:

  • Spark plugs - Autolite iridium and champion coppers, just to be sure.
  • Coil rail - Autozone as I didn’t want to wait 3 months for the Mopar part.
  • Crank position sensor - Mopar part
  • Fuel pump - Delphi part
  • Injectors - https://www.ksuspensionfab.com/store/p71/Remanufactured:_4_Port_Upgrade_Injectors_YJ/LJ/TJ.html#/
  • Battery - Big ass Odyssey. Needed this anyway for some electronics upgrades
  • Compression checked out - don’t have values, took it to my local trusted mechanic for this.
  • PCM - wranglerfix.com
  • Cleaned and checked grounds
  • 2/1 Downstream O2 sensor - NTK part - replaced exhaust and sensors last year. Tried a new one recently just in case
I realize I could have probably gone about this in a better order. This thing is just making me insane. I put a sweet new axle in before this issue reared it’s ugly head and I would like to enjoy it eventually. Help!

Time for an LS swap?
 
Are you putting antiseize on the spark plug threads? It's not hard for excessive antiseize to make its way to the spark plug electrodes and cause misfires.
 
Are you putting antiseize on the spark plug threads? It's not hard for excessive antiseize to make its way to the spark plug electrodes and cause misfires.
No, the plugs are going in bone dry. I do recall seeing a post about applying antiseize to the Autolites (might have been your suggestion?) but we don’t get very rusty in Nevada so I didn’t go that route.
 
Good list...I don't see anything about checking the wiring loom... especially the part where it connects to the stud between the valve cover and AC/heater lines.

I thought I had mine licked until it threw more codes wheeling today. Giving up throwing more parts at it until I regear to 4.88 from 3.07. Can't keep the engine in the happy RPM band.

-Mac
 
Good list...I don't see anything about checking the wiring loom... especially the part where it connects to the stud between the valve cover and AC/heater lines.
I'm beginning to really consider sourcing and replacing the engine harness. I've seen a few areas on the harness that are a bit suspect. I'll inspect this area you mentioned and see what it's looking like.
 
I thought I had mine licked until it threw more codes wheeling today. Giving up throwing more parts at it until I regear to 4.88 from 3.07. Can't keep the engine in the happy RPM band.
This exact thing is what put me on notice of this misfire! Never threw a single code until I installed my new axle with 4.88s. I had the same feeling of roughness and vibration prior to the axle swap, but chocked it up to bad driveline angle since no codes were thrown. Of course, it was tough to push over 3k on the stock 3.07s with 33" tires.
 
I recently had a misfire fixed which made me want to pull my hair out. Was persistent for half a year before I figured it out. I, like you threw a number of parts at my jeep which came back to bite me with more problems down the road. As many people advised me, check the wire loom behind the back of your head, which tend to get damaged due to a stud on the back of the head. For me, my misfire was caused by a faulty connector to the coil rail. It was dumped in dielectric grease by the PO probably, and the prongs in the clip were pulled back so it was not making a proper connection.
 
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For me, my misfire was caused by a faulty connector to the coil rail.
I've been considering this as a possibility as well. The wires on that connector don't appear to be in the best shape. I've been trying to find info on the wiring for that connector but find conflicting info. Some stuff I've read indicate that the coils feed the spark plugs in the firing order (1&6, 2&5, and 3&4) others indicate the coils feed the plugs nearest to them (1&2, 3&4, and 5&6). The latter would make sense in my situation since its always cylinder 6 misfire but 5 will pop up occasionally too.

Do you know whats right between those 2? Or are you aware of any good sources to get that info from?
 
I've been considering this as a possibility as well. The wires on that connector don't appear to be in the best shape. I've been trying to find info on the wiring for that connector but find conflicting info. Some stuff I've read indicate that the coils feed the spark plugs in the firing order (1&6, 2&5, and 3&4) others indicate the coils feed the plugs nearest to them (1&2, 3&4, and 5&6). The latter would make sense in my situation since its always cylinder 6 misfire but 5 will pop up occasionally too.

Do you know whats right between those 2? Or are you aware of any good sources to get that info from?
The correct firing order is the first one you listed (1-6, 2-5, 3-4). I posted a good amount of threads which had good information from other members on the forum on my page. If you go to my profile and click threads, check pages 4-8 and look for threads of mine that sound like your issue. A lot of them have information you might need.
 
I did some inspecting and tried some wiring fixes today with no luck.

The wire loom appears to be in great shape, no damage to the loom and I don't see anywhere any of the wires could be damaged inside. Just to be clear, the suggestions above are talking about the loom that runs around the back of the valve cover? Like between the valve cover and firewall.

When I ordered the new injectors I had also ordered new pigtails for them but was holding off on splicing them on. I decided to give that a go on the injector plug for 6 just to freshen up. No dice, still the same behavior.
 
@DropTopDon thanks for the leads! I checked out your threads and, while the misfire sounds familiar, your codes are totally different. I haven't seen anything beside P0306 and, occasionally, P0305. You did put me on to the resource center where the service manuals so thanks for that.

Also, your Jeep sounds like just as much of a pain in the ass as mine is lol
 
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Still rattling down the road when we take her out.

My buddy lent me his compression and leak down testers, I'll be running those tests by the end of this coming weekend. Hopeful that I'll have something conclusive to report by then.
 
I’d been experiencing a P0306 that at the moment has not returned, but I don’t think I can conclude any one thing I’ve done has fixed it unless my issue was related to something like a poor connection to something somewhere that was inadvertently improved by just my messing with everything trying to find the problem(s).

but these are some additional things that you may want to look at.

I could have missed it but don’t see any mention of what your live data looks like? Have you scanned you Jeeps OBD data for values out of range? What are your LTFT and STFT, what do the graphs look like for your upstream and down stream O2 sensors. have you done a smoke test looking for intake and exhaust leaks? Are your ground straps connections to the engine making good contact?
 
Have you scanned you Jeeps OBD data for values out of range? What are your LTFT and STFT, what do the graphs look like for your upstream and down stream O2 sensors.
I have an export from my BlueDriver OBD2 scanner; I captured data from about a 30 minute drive with a decent range of driving condition. I wouldn't know what is normal on those graphs, and he didn't seem too concerned about it so I haven't looked further into the live data.
have you done a smoke test looking for intake and exhaust leaks?
Have not done a smoke test. Though, that's next up if the compression and leak down tests later this week don't tell me anything.
Are your ground straps connections to the engine making good contact?
Yeah, grounds are all good.
 
Is it possible to get false positives on a leak down test?

I was able to get to work on the Jeep today and perform compression and leak down tests. Everything showed about as good as one could ask, numbers are well within spec; 125-135 psi and 20%-30% loss. I did notice I could hear a bit of air passing back to the intake on 6, but considering the good leak down reading, I don't know if it should be of concern.
 
I've been considering this as a possibility as well. The wires on that connector don't appear to be in the best shape. I've been trying to find info on the wiring for that connector but find conflicting info. Some stuff I've read indicate that the coils feed the spark plugs in the firing order (1&6, 2&5, and 3&4) others indicate the coils feed the plugs nearest to them (1&2, 3&4, and 5&6). The latter would make sense in my situation since its always cylinder 6 misfire but 5 will pop up occasionally too.

Do you know whats right between those 2? Or are you aware of any good sources to get that info from?
I think a little bit of both is true rereading your question, firing order is the first list and the second is the plugs that share coils so both are true and if you are having difficulty with 6 and occasionally 5 that could point to the connection being dirty and having some corrosion. The coil rail you replaced with no change so I would not rush to blame the aftermarket one right away.

where did you get your factory cam position sensor? I think even the ones sold at dealerships now are made in China, I’m not 100% positive on this but believe I read this here. Do you have the original? If you have the factory sensor and the replacement didn’t help or make any noticeable difference you might consider slipping it back in, the aftermarket/Chinese ones have a habit of being temperature sensitive I believe and along the way you could have fixed you problem only to introduce it again if this sensor is acting up in the cold?

if you run out of things to look at and have not inspected and cleaned your crank position sensor that might be worth a try? Mine on the 2006 is back by the bell housing on the passengers side i think 2001-2006, you get at it from underneath. You can fit one arm in through a hole by the frame and one arm shoved in between the exhaust pipe and where ever works best. Release the red connector clip, slide off the connector, use a short 3/8 ratchet and socket (I don’t remember the size 7/8, 13mm??) it needs to be deep enough to reach over the sensor but not so tall as not to fit, the bolt is above/behind your view. I’m not sure exactly what year they switched yours could be on the drivers side the connector is then reached from above back by the fire wall and the sensor is again down by the bell housing. Most of the YouTube videos I found were for the drivers side location on the earlier Tj’s I think the passenger side was fairly easy, watch for an O ring but mine didn’t have one. Something that is confusing is the cam and crank shaft sensors get names get switched around by accident I think making it a little confusing. Mine was pretty clean but some I saw were pretty gunned up and I think that could degrade performance.

researching My latest code a p0016, I think the code was from my Crown cam position sensor ( I just put my old MOPAR one back in), dirty engine oil was one thing to check I guess if it’s dirty enough it can interfere with the signal similar to a layer of gunk, probably a both situation In some cases.

as far as the leak down test I have no idea, but anything different deserves another look. You are talking cylinder leak down not intake exhaust?

I watched one video where a shop used a pressure relay threaded into the suspect cylinder and they charted the compression electric impulse on a chart using a scale of 10 psi/1v the line graph showed the beginning of the compression stroke as a high sharp peak in the compression strokethat began and ended with a dip, rising to an m without the middle leg for the exhaust and intake stroke dipping down negative into another compression stroke. On the chart it was easy to split the four strokes up showing exactly what was happening and where based on relation to the baseline and phase.

a local shop may have the tool to do that if you were to get so far as considering a look inside, this might work instead? But I sure rule out anything simple even if it means putting an old part back in until you hit you problem.

for smoke tester I ordered this one off Amazon and it works great all you need is unscented mineral oil from Ace hardware or similar, there is a variety of models and prices, YouTube has diy plans you can make your own.

the page for this one is gone now.

27AE758C-F3DB-4589-97C4-B541263821DA.jpeg


a disclaimer this is just more stuff I’ve tried too, I’m still searching I think although it’s running even better now with my old cam sensor, drove it around town and the freeway and no codes or pending codes yet… the codes changing I think is pointing me in a direction to believe I both solved one problem and introduced another with the cam sensor???

hope this helps and isn’t just more confusion?
 
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Something else you might try if you have not is a speed-o-healer, I was having some computer issues I think because of the speed rpm difference with the lower 5.13 gears my engine was shutting down and throwing codes pushing it at wot and after installing the corrector I did not have that issue plus my speedometer worked again.
 
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Is it possible to get false positives on a leak down test?

I was able to get to work on the Jeep today and perform compression and leak down tests. Everything showed about as good as one could ask, numbers are well within spec; 125-135 psi and 20%-30% loss. I did notice I could hear a bit of air passing back to the intake on 6, but considering the good leak down reading, I don't know if it should be of concern.
You need to make sure you are doing the procedure correctly. You need to make sure that both the intake/exhaust are completely closed. If you are not sure about them being closed, remove the valve cover and loosen the rocker arms.
Typically, spec is 10-20% leak down. Anything over that is no good. You said you hear air leaking back thru the intake, again a bad sign.

You should perform a compression test of all cylinders And you should also perform a running compression and snap test.
for those tests you will need to fabricate ignition wires to go from the coil pack to the plugs.

https://www.alldata.com/us/en/support/community/article/tech-tip/running-compression-tests
 
hope this helps and isn’t just more confusion?
Absolutely does not add more confusion. I appreciate all the input and I'm sure poor souls who come along in the future will as well!

You talk a lot about the cam sensor, but it was actually the crank sensor that I had tried... until today. I have read all of the posts saying to always go with the OEM sensors on these parts, but these days its next to impossible to get them. I am trying to avoid the AutoZone and O'Reilly parts where I can. Call the dealership today to see about a crank and cam sensors, neither in stock and the cam sensor is discontinued since 2020. No indication when the crank sensor might be available.

I decided today to try the parts store cam sensor since its one of the few timing and/or fueling related sensors I haven't touched. No change.

I'll keep your ideas in mind as I go forward, but check my next post and you'll see I found a problem and potential fix today.