Brake drum doesn't fit after replacing shoes: what did I do wrong?

[JasterMereel42]

Welp, got my parts ordered.

Front:
* BMB brake pads
* Centric rotors
(I'm sticking with the stock calipers)

Rear:
* Exact same parts you ordered

 

[TheBoogieman]

Welp, got my parts ordered.

Front:
* BMB brake pads
* Centric rotors
(I'm sticking with the stock calipers)

Follow his instructions exactly! Those brake ARE Magic.

 

[mwn]

Welp, got my parts ordered.

Front:
* BMB brake pads
* Centric rotors
(I'm sticking with the stock calipers)

Rear:
* Exact same parts you ordered

I only did new calipers because one of the originals was sticking. And so far the broken-in BMB pads really seem to live up to all the praise they get around here.

For the rears, I also picked up a return-spring tool from the local auto parts store. I was looking for the style that's a T-handle with a hook on the end, but they didn't stock that tool so I ended up with the "pliers" style. The pliers themselves weren't useful for TJ return springs (so far as I could tell), but there's a "cam" on one handle that worked well for removing the springs and a grooved-flat on the other handle that worked well for levering the springs back into place. Well worth the $11 IMO.

 

[JasterMereel42]

I only did new calipers because one of the originals was sticking. And so far the broken-in BMB pads really seem to live up to all the praise they get around here.

For the rears, I also picked up a return-spring tool from the local auto parts store. I was looking for the style that's a T-handle with a hook on the end, but they didn't stock that tool so I ended up with the "pliers" style. The pliers themselves weren't useful for TJ return springs (so far as I could tell), but there's a "cam" on one handle that worked well for removing the springs and a grooved-flat on the other handle that worked well for levering the springs back into place. Well worth the $11 IMO.

Glad to hear that the BMBs are great. I'll make sure to properly break them in.

I'll check the calipers whenever I do my brakes.

For that tool that you got, any chance you could do a search and post a link to a similar tool that you found?

 

[mwn]

For that tool that you got, any chance you could do a search and post a link to a similar tool that you found?

See attached: the "hook" tool I couldn't find and the "pliers" I ended up using.

.

 

[mrblaine]

See attached: the "hook" tool I couldn't find and the "pliers" I ended up using.

View attachment 438594.

View attachment 438595

Bears repeating, but be very careful installing the return springs. I used to do business with a shop that had a one eyed weldor. I asked about it one day. Turns out he was installing return springs using a pair of cheap needle nose Vise-Grip style pliers. He couldn't get it by moving it sideways so he got over to the side and was pulling it over. When they let go and slipped off the spring, he stabbed himself in the eye with them. Not a good time.

 

[mwn]

One follow-up here is that the drums have self-adjusted a bit tighter than seems reasonable: I can now feel them dragging in lower gears and when coasting at slower speeds, and I can smell them even after short drives around town. Reading up on this now, but I'm grateful for suggestions if anyone has them.

 

[mwn]

Bears repeating, but be very careful installing the return springs. [. . .] When they let go and slipped off the spring, he stabbed himself in the eye with them. Not a good time.

Didn't think about at the time, and didn't see this called out in any of the resources I followed, but safety glasses should 100% be part of the procedure: those springs are stout and even with tools don't much want to cooperate.

 

[mrblaine]

One follow-up here is that the drums have self-adjusted a bit tighter than seems reasonable: I can now feel them dragging in lower gears and when coasting at slower speeds, and I can smell them even after short drives around town. Reading up on this now, but I'm grateful for suggestions if anyone has them.

Are you backing up and using the brakes hard more than normal?

edit- are you sure the primary shoes are in the front?

 

[BlueC]

edit- are you sure the primary shoes are in the front?

That's a common mistake made with drum brakes. @mwn you should verify that the smaller primary shoe is in the forward position.

 

[mwn]

Are you backing up and using the brakes hard more than normal?

edit- are you sure the primary shoes are in the front?

After my initial mistake (assembling both secondary shoes to the passenger side backing plate), I am 99% confident that the smaller/primary shoe is to the front on both sides with the larger/secondary shoes (that hold the adjuster lever and spring) to the rear.

I did a series of hard stops from ~15mph in reverse because I'd read somewhere that would get the drums to self-adjust. It seemed like a good idea at the time. And, come to think of it, that's when I first noticed the rears dragging . . . so, of course I did this to myself.

Adjust the shoes in a few clicks and trust that "normal" reverse braking won't bring the problem back?

 

[mrblaine]

After my initial mistake (assembling both secondary shoes to the passenger side backing plate), I am 99% confident that the smaller/primary shoe is to the front on both sides with the larger/secondary shoes (that hold the adjuster lever and spring) to the rear.

I did a series of hard stops from ~15mph in reverse because I'd read somewhere that would get the drums to self-adjust. It seemed like a good idea at the time. And, come to think of it, that's when I first noticed the rears dragging . . . so, of course I did this to myself.

Adjust the shoes in a few clicks and trust that "normal" reverse braking won't bring the problem back?

At least you know the adjusters are working correctly. Instead of backing them off, go for a short slow drive. Hold the button on the parking brake lever in and then apply and release the parking brake several times at 10-15 mph to arc the shoes to the drums a tiny bit better.

 

[mwn]

Hold the button on the parking brake lever in and then apply and release the parking brake several times at 10-15 mph to arc the shoes to the drums a tiny bit better.

Indeed, this helped. In terms of shaping the shoes, is this doing anything different than normal braking or is it just a faster way to do it since using the parking brake stops the entire weight of the vehicle with only the rear brakes?

 

[mrblaine]

Indeed, this helped. In terms of shaping the shoes, is this doing anything different than normal braking or is it just a faster way to do it since using the parking brake stops the entire weight of the vehicle with only the rear brakes?

Just gets there a little bit faster.

 

[P man]

Just gets there a little bit faster.

I remember when brake outfits would arch the shoes to match the drum. Otts friction in Portland Or would do it.

 

[mrblaine]

I remember when brake outfits would arch the shoes to match the drum. Otts friction in Portland Or would do it.

I should have clarified that he is just bedding them to the curvature of the drum a bit better but I was in a hurry and being economical with words. You are right, they used to arc the shoes to fit the drums a lot closer than they do now although out of the box stuff isn't bad generally.

 

[JasterMereel42]

I only did new calipers because one of the originals was sticking. And so far the broken-in BMB pads really seem to live up to all the praise they get around here.

For the rears, I also picked up a return-spring tool from the local auto parts store. I was looking for the style that's a T-handle with a hook on the end, but they didn't stock that tool so I ended up with the "pliers" style. The pliers themselves weren't useful for TJ return springs (so far as I could tell), but there's a "cam" on one handle that worked well for removing the springs and a grooved-flat on the other handle that worked well for levering the springs back into place. Well worth the $11 IMO.

I just finished up my rear drum brakes at 5am this morning. I got a similar tool. I agree that the cam was useful for removing the top springs, and the other end was useful for getting the top springs back on. The hook at the pliers end of the tool was useless.

 

[JasterMereel42]

I'm bumping this thread because there are people that have lots of good info here.

I just finished the rear drum brake replacement this morning. Took 3 hours for the first one, and then less than 1 hour for the second one. I got everything put together correctly. Yes, the shorter shoes are in the front for both sides.

They are working, but the parking brake isn't gripping that well. If I pull the parking brake all the way up and the Jeep is in gear, if I hit the gas, the Jeep will still go forward. There is definitely resistance though. In my other car, if the parking brake is engage and I hit the gas, it won't move. If the Jeep is idle, the parking brake will keep it from moving, but I give it a bit of gas and it'll go forward. If I am moving and then I pull up on the parking brake, it'll slow down, but will keep moving.

What else can I try to get them to grip more?

Also, I notice that the self adjuster thing on the passenger side takes more effort to turn than the drivers side. Is that an issue?

 

[macleanflood]

Either pull the rubber plug and use a screwdriver to roll the adjuster wheel until you get noticable drag on the wheel without the brakes engaged...or drive backwards and repeated hit the brakes... assuming the adjuster screw was not seized and you lubed it up good...and you got the adjuster cable installed right then it'll eventually adjust the brakes.

The e brake cables stretch over time too to a 13mm wrench to take out some of the slack on that cable helps...right up top above the rear driveshaft. All three cables intersect.

-Mac

 

[JasterMereel42]

Either pull the rubber plug and use a screwdriver to roll the adjuster wheel until you get noticable drag on the wheel without the brakes engaged...or drive backwards and repeated hit the brakes... assuming the adjuster screw was not seized and you lubed it up good...and you got the adjuster cable installed right then it'll eventually adjust the brakes.

The e brake cables stretch over time too to a 13mm wrench to take out some of the slack on that cable helps...right up top above the rear driveshaft. All three cables intersect.

-Mac

I'm probably going to jack up the rear end and try to adjust everything again later today. I have to replace the sway bar end link bushings once they arrive from Amazon so I'll have to jack it up anyways. The adjuster screws were lubed up by me.

I might try the driving backwards and hitting the brake first though. I really would like to not get into the drums again. Such a pain in the ass.