Dana HP30 vs LP30

StG58

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Orygun, the wet side...
Right now there are a ton of Dana HP30's for sale in my area from $0 (please get it out of my garage) to $150. The Cherokee folks seem to be dumping them wholesale for some reason.

Is there enough of a difference in potential there to snag a couple to set aside for when I do axles and gears on the TJ?

What am I looking at to stuff one under the front of my TJ? I know the obvious things like match the gear ratios. What about the less obvious? The gotchas?
 
I'm pretty certain it will bolt right up without any hitch at all (other than gearing). I'm not 100%, but I could have sworn I read that somewhere.

The HP Dana 30 would definitely be an upgrade over the LP Dana 30 (which I'm not even sure why they put on the TJ to begin with).
 
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Snatch those up; that's a great upgrade. I run a high-pinion Dana 30 in my TJ, sourced from a 98 XJ (I believe). Straight bolt-in. Just be aware that somewhere around 98-99 the hub thickness changed slightly. If you have the non-matching hub thickness, your calipers will not fit over it.

I found this out the hard way. I had an extra set of shafts completed with hub assembly. Toasted a U-joint and went to swap the new unit in, and my calipers wouldn't fit over it. If you find yourself in this situation, you can obviously just re-use your original hub, but something to be aware of...
 
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I'm pretty certain it will bolt right up without any hitch at all (other than gearing). I'm not 100%, but I could have sworn I read that somewhere.

The HP Dana 30 would definitely be an upgrade over the LP Dana 30 (which I'm not even sure why they put on the TJ to begin with).

That is curious, why the LP Dana 30 in the TJ.

Snatch those up; that's a great upgrade. I run a high-pinion Dana 30 in my TJ, sourced from a 98 XJ (I believe). Straight bolt-in. Just be aware that somewhere around 98-99 the hub thickness changed slightly. If you have the non-matching hub thickness, your calipers will not fit over it.

I found this out the hard way. I had an extra set of shafts completed with hub assembly. Toasted a U-joint and went to swap the new unit in, and my calipers wouldn't fit over it. If you find yourself in this situation, you can obviously just re-use your original hub, but something to be aware of...

I have a 99 TJ, so I'm faced with the same issue.

So the idea here is to snatch up one or two of these axles and put it togather over time as I get the funds together. Essentially it will be a bare housing to start with. Should I contemplate upgraded brackets?
 
No need for upgraded brackets if the OE brackets are still solid.

There are two main reasons for going HP Dana 30... 1) one reason is well worth it, that it raises the front of the driveshaft up & out of the way of rocks, etc. and 2) not as important... that the R&P gears are meshing on their stronger 'drive' side instead of the weaker 'coast' side as is on the LP Dana 30. While an advantage, I just don't hear/read of anyone busting up their LP Dana 30 R&P gears while wheeling with 35" or smaller tires. :)
 
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So maybe you know the answer Jerry... Why did the TJ receive a LP Dana 30 instead of a HP Dana 30?

Was there a reason for it, or was Jeep just trying to get rid of parts (axles) they had laying around?
 
So maybe you know the answer Jerry... Why did the TJ receive a LP Dana 30 instead of a HP Dana 30?

Was there a reason for it, or was Jeep just trying to get rid of parts (axles) they had laying around?
Sorry but I have no idea why the LP Dana 30 was installed in the TJ rather than the HP version. @mrblaine probably knows.
 
This is an interesting conversation.

Other than looking for obvious damage, what else should I be looking at as I sort through these things? Best way to check for bent axle tube & etc? I don't want a disconnect axle, but that is obvious to casual observation. The plan would be to stuff Revolution axles and gears in the rehabbed case, so not much time needs to be spent on that. The outer C's are going away anyway for a 15" BB kit from Black Magic.

What gets bent / twisted that I need to look for?
 
Other than looking for obvious damage, what else should I be looking at as I sort through these things? Best way to check for bent axle tube & etc? I don't want a disconnect axle, but that is obvious to casual observation. The plan would be to stuff Revolution axles and gears in the rehabbed case, so not much time needs to be spent on that. The outer C's are going away anyway for a 15" BB kit from Black Magic.

What gets bent / twisted that I need to look for?
Just installing solid shafts gets rid of the passenger-side central-axle-disconnect. You can either buy or fabricate a small sheet metal cover plate to cover the disconnect opening present on 1990 or older HP Dana 30 axles. Newer HP Dana 30 axles made after 1991 do not have the disconnect mechanism.

Typically it's the passenger side axle tube that gets bent because it's longer. I don't have an easy suggestion for how to tell if it's bent since I've never had a bent axle housing. A friend took his bent axle to an axle repair shop where they used a laser jig to find where it was bent.
 
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So maybe you know the answer Jerry... Why did the TJ receive a LP Dana 30 instead of a HP Dana 30?

Was there a reason for it, or was Jeep just trying to get rid of parts (axles) they had laying around?
Yeah, there is no likelihood that Jeep had over 3/4's of a million LP 30's laying around. The reason they used the LP 30 is probably because there was no need to use anything else. There is exactly zero wrong with it, it works very well for the vast majority of folks and were it not for the internet telling folks they needed one, very few would actually swap in a HP 30.

There are a small handful of folks that have a use for the HP 30 and only because it moves the driveshaft up higher. Other than that, it isn't really worth it. The gear set isn't robust enough for wheel spin wheeling in muddy rocks and we don't break the LP gear sets in the rocks so there is no advantage to the HP except saving the front driveshaft. The LP gear set is quite capable of breaking even alloys shafts and u-joints without damage to the gears so anything posted as a reason to swap one in outside of the higher driveshaft is like most things, just believing what you've read without actually solving a problem you really had.
 
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This is an interesting conversation.

Other than looking for obvious damage, what else should I be looking at as I sort through these things? Best way to check for bent axle tube & etc? I don't want a disconnect axle, but that is obvious to casual observation. The plan would be to stuff Revolution axles and gears in the rehabbed case, so not much time needs to be spent on that. The outer C's are going away anyway for a 15" BB kit from Black Magic.

What gets bent / twisted that I need to look for?
Long side axle tube is usually the one that gets trashed. If the lower mounts are bent sideways at all, there is a high risk of the tube being bent on the long side. After that, they are typically okay. If you want to check one, pull the axles and look through the tubes from both sides. Line up the circles so they are concentric to your eye. If you can't, it's bent.

Do not use the 27 spline Revo stuff, it's a waste of a good axle kit. The splines will be the weak point and you don't want the breakage inside the diff.
 
If anyone knows, it would be Blaine.
Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I've been an advocate of the HP30 around this part of the world since we swapped the first one in around the end of 99. I'm just not a fan of solutions to problems that don't exist or solutions that won't work that well. The only reason to swap in a HP 30 is to move the driveshaft up a bit more out of the rocks. Or, if you find a smoking deal on one with gears and a locker you can use.

Again, we swap them in and build them all the time but only for a very narrow well defined set of reasons.
 
I had a feeling that all the hype behind the HP30 wasn't all it was cracked up to be. I'm glad you cleared it up though!

And I agree completely with what you're saying, trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the first place is pretty senseless.

But hey... isn't that how most of these hocus pocus aftermarket part companies stay in business? Misleading marketing and helping people waste their money by convincing them they need a part to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

My favorite is stainless steel brake lines... please tell me I am not mistaken in assuming that is just marketing bullshit?
 
I had a feeling that all the hype behind the HP30 wasn't all it was cracked up to be. I'm glad you cleared it up though!

And I agree completely with what you're saying, trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the first place is pretty senseless.

But hey... isn't that how most of these hocus pocus aftermarket part companies stay in business? Misleading marketing and helping people waste their money by convincing them they need a part to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

My favorite is stainless steel brake lines... please tell me I am not mistaken in assuming that is just marketing bullshit?
The misinformation in the brake industry is outrageous.

Rubber flex hoses are rated at 3000 psi and have to be or they aren't allowed to be DOT compliant. A hose can't be rated at that pressure and bulge under pressure. And yet every or just about every seller of them says they will improve pedal feel because they don't expand as much under pressure. I've actually tested both side x side at 2500 psi and they bulge or expand exactly the same amount, or slightly less than .001".

S/S flex lines are worse about being resistant to vibration and kinking. I see them all the time with the braid broken and split at the juncture of hose to fitting due to improper or nonexistent strain relief. I have never seen a rubber flex hose do the same thing.

There is also another myth about flex hoses that folks live by and that is you can't hang a caliper by the hose or you will damage it which is pure BS. If a hose can handle being shaken thousands of times per mile by the suspension hitting bumps on the highway and offroad, can resist almost 3000 psi before bursting, hanging a 5 lb caliper from it won't hurt a thing. Look at it when you hang it and if it isn't trying to kink the hose where it enters the banjo fitting, don't worry about it. That is certainly far less likely to damage anything than using the crimp tools they sell to pinch off a line so it won't leak fluid while you are working on the system.

Another myth is residual pressure valves for drum brakes.

Here is the typical ad for one and they are all very similar.

Drum brakes require a 10 lb. residual pressure (RPV10) to counteract the spring tension in the drum system which tends to pull the shoes away from the drums. This will give you a longer pedal travel and "spongy" brakes. The residual valve holds a pressure keeping the shoes near the drums giving a higher firmer pedal. Also required a metering valve (PVM) to the front (the metering valve prevents nose dive).

Let's do a little math, shall we? 10 psi into a wheel cylinder with a bore of roughly 1 1/8" has an area of just about 1 square inch which is 10 pounds of force against the return springs that pull the shoes away from the drum. The average force of drum shoe return springs as can be verified by anyone who has ever changed brake shoes is about 10 times higher than the force a RPV can exert. In other words, the RPV does and can do nothing to reduce pedal travel because it can't move the shoes off of the anchor pin not to mention that you wouldn't want it to anyway. The style of drum brakes we typically see in vehicles is known as servo or self energizing in that if the drum shoe return springs weren't strong enough to pull the shoes away from the drum, they would just keep self applying until the drum locked up. It is only the return springs that allow you to modulate the brakes so even trying to defeat that with any type of added valve is a fool's errand and taking advantage of folk's ignorance by ads like above makes you an idiot.

You need a bigger master to make your existing brake system work better because bigger is better, right? Nope, all bigger does is reduce pressure into the system and make your problems worse.

There are more but I'm tired of typing.
 
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My favorite of all time is the 'cold air' intakes that do nothing but lighten your wallet...
Not an apples to apples comparison. The HP 30 does have some benefits which can be taken advantage of by a not insignificant group of folks and they are tangible benefits.
 
Thank you for sharing your expertise, @mrblaine . What I'm hearing is that the HP30 is a solution to a problem that I am extremely unlikely to have given my wheeling style and location. Useful tidbit on the the Revolution 27 spline shafts and braided brake lines as well. I love this place! It's saved me a grip full o' money and frustration!
 
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