From death wobble to steering wheel shake

[DaveK22]

I'll try to make this brief and concise...after installing 3.5" lift with brand new 33's, I developed DW. First thing I did was bring back to place that installed lift. They changed the 10mm bolt in track bar (stock) to 7/16 to take up a bit of play. Recommended I get a alignment too. At first seemed ok...but then wobble came back.

Next, I order a new Rusty's adjustable track bar. Installed myself. Centered axle per directions. DW still came back. I called the shop that did my alignment and told how I just added a new adjustable track bar and asked if I now needed another alignment...they said I shouldn't need one. They asked about who balanced wheels...replied a local tire shop chain...they indicated that might be the problem (as in they don't know how to balance larger tires).

Next, I brought it again back to the shop where I had the alignment done to now check wheel balance. Only the front were checked. One was 11 ounces off & other was 9 off. They re-balanced them. Said that rear probably need to be done but suggested I wait until next rotation. But the jeep drove great on the way home...I thought I was all set. No DW & no shaking!

However, after a little more time (20-30 miles), I started feeling a mild to moderate steering wheel shake...but only from 40-45 mph. Speeds above and below that range seem to be fine. But 40-45 is a very common speed so it is extremely annoying. I was like wtf!

Question... any ideas on what to do next? Could the out of balance rear wheels cause a steering wheel shake? 2nd opinion on whether another alignment needed?

PS I can post a copy of the computer "before and after" specs for the alignment if its relative.

 

[Dcook65]

I would be interested what the alignment shop said. Toe in is the only thing that can be adjusted. If you go to the “how to” section, it will tell you how to check the toe in yourself. Rear tires shouldn’t affect shaking in steering wheel.

 

[DaveK22]

I read all up on toe-in and when I mentioned the recommended specs (per this site), they said "we have a $20k machine that will do all that". I trusted them since a local shop that does a lot of jeep lifts sends most of their customers there. That's how I chose them...from their recommendation. Here is what I got...

PS This all like Chinese to me

 

[DaveK22]

I just measured my toe-in. It's about 5/8" off from front of front tire to rear of front tire...a far cry from the 1/16th to 1/8th per Jerry's write up in the how to section. I'm going to tackle this soon & hopefully that is the final tweak needed. Love this forum

PS Anyone know which way to roll the tie rod to DECREASE the toe-in? Using a pipe wrench, roll the handle up towards hood or roll handle down towards the ground?

 

[AndyG]

I just measured my toe-in. It's about 5/8" off from front of front tire to rear of front tire...a far cry from the 1/16th to 1/8th per Jerry's write up in the how to section. I'm going to tackle this soon & hopefully that is the final tweak needed. Love this forum

PS Anyone know which way to roll the tie rod to DECREASE the toe-in? Using a pipe wrench, roll the handle up towards hood or roll handle down towards the ground?

I can’t remember but look at the thread pitch , you can’t mess it up man ....just go the other way if it needed. You are on the right track .

 

[whitrzac]

Tire ballance is causing your issue, not toe.
It could be driveshaft vibrations too, 3.5in is a lot without a tcase drop or SYE.


Over time toe will wear the tires funny and cause issues, but not for at least a few hundred miles.

 

[JMT]

Tires are likely the problem, probably not the balance. They are out of round or something. If you have a friend with a TJ or a vehicle with the same bolt pattern, switch them out and drive it. If the shimmy goes away, it’s your tires. YOu can try to have them balanced again by a shop with a road force, but I tried three times with one set of tires and I went through the exact scenarios you did. DW, balance, DW, changed track bar, better, balanced tires, then DW, changed tie rod ends, better, shimmy 40-47, balanced tires, throw some alignments in the sequence, 1/16” toe in, shimmy, shimmy, BOUGHT NEW TIRES and went up from 31’s to 33’s, CHANGED NOTHING ELSE, smooth as GLASS...

 

[DaveK22]

Good news to report! It was the toe-in after all! After the first adjustment was made, then test drive, I immediately saw the shake was distinctly diminished. A few more "half turn" tweeks and soon I had no shake. I tried to get within 1/8th as measured with a tape measure & my (2) 4' foot levels, but the tweaks seemed to dial it in. When done, I realigned the steering wheel.

Adjusting this couldn't be easier so now I know what to do in the future. Amazing what just a few turns of the tie rod can make.

 

[JEEPCJTJ]

Good news at 5:57 AM. Hopefully it stays this way.

The alignment report you posted showed the final (after adjustment) toe in of each tire to be at .15 degrees (perfectly centered in the tolerance). Based on that I was thinking these guys must really have their act together.

Then you measured 5/8" toe in (way out of tolerance). Hmm...You seem to be able to read a tape measure more than once, compare the readings, and even make adjustments that have fixed your problem, or at least made it much better.

Maybe that alignment shop should be taken off your list of places to get work done, or maybe DICK is just a dickhead, who knows?


Anyway, I never had to deal with just the steering wheel shake, I had definite DW too, and here's my experience with an alignment and tires(mentioned by whitrzac and JMT) to fix my TJ.

My toe in was about 1/2" with a tape measure and out of tolerance on the alignment machine. Both measurements taken by the shop I always go to where everyone is highly trained and held accountable by the owner for everything they do. They adjusted until the toe in angle was not exactly, but almost, centered in the tolerance and I still had DW. Then I had them install new tires on different wheels which they balanced the way they do everything. It's been a year now and no more DW.

 

[jazngab]

Tires are likely the problem, probably not the balance. They are out of round or something. If you have a friend with a TJ or a vehicle with the same bolt pattern, switch them out and drive it. If the shimmy goes away, it’s your tires. YOu can try to have them balanced again by a shop with a road force, but I tried three times with one set of tires and I went through the exact scenarios you did. DW, balance, DW, changed track bar, better, balanced tires, then DW, changed tie rod ends, better, shimmy 40-47, balanced tires, throw some alignments in the sequence, 1/16” toe in, shimmy, shimmy, BOUGHT NEW TIRES and went up from 31’s to 33’s, CHANGED NOTHING ELSE, smooth as GLASS...

Good news at 5:57 AM. Hopefully it stays this way.

The alignment report you posted showed the final (after adjustment) toe in of each tire to be at .15 degrees (perfectly centered in the tolerance). Based on that I was thinking these guys must really have their act together.

Then you measured 5/8" toe in (way out of tolerance). Hmm...You seem to be able to read a tape measure more than once, compare the readings, and even make adjustments that have fixed your problem, or at least made it much better.

Maybe that alignment shop should be taken off your list of places to get work done, or maybe DICK is just a dickhead, who knows?


Anyway, I never had to deal with just the steering wheel shake, I had definite DW too, and here's my experience with an alignment and tires(mentioned by whitrzac and JMT) to fix my TJ.

My toe in was about 1/2" with a tape measure and out of tolerance on the alignment machine. Both measurements taken by the shop I always go to where everyone is highly trained and held accountable by the owner for everything they do. They adjusted until the toe in angle was not exactly, but almost, centered in the tolerance and I still had DW. Then I had them install new tires on different wheels which they balanced the way they do everything. It's been a year now and no more DW.

Please don’t tell me I need to look at replacing my less than a year old KO2s if I still have a slight shimmy. Hopefully a rebalance will do the trick. It better do the trick.

 

[AndyG]

Please don’t tell me I need to look at replacing my less than a year old KO2s if I still have a slight shimmy. Hopefully a rebalance will do the trick. It better do the trick.

If you look around you can find a place that will actually true tires... It's pretty radical they actually shave some rubber as the tire spins but there's probably not a more accurate way to create roundness.

The balance of the tires has to be perfect.

One thing that gets lost in all this is really how small a Jeep is in relation to how out of scale 33 or larger tires are.

Basically you're going in two opposite directions

You have a quarter ton vehicle and tires that are more suited for a 3/4 ton vehicle.

So if anything's going on with the tires and wheels it's going to be pretty dominant.

I may be wrong but I feel like what I'm saying is at the heart of a lot tire related issues on lifted jeeps with oversized tires, and I have one .

 

[jazngab]

If you look around you can find a place that will actually true tires... It's pretty radical they actually shave some rubber as the tire spins but there's probably not a more accurate way to create roundness.

The balance of the tires has to be perfect.

One thing that gets lost in all this is really how small a Jeep is in relation to how out of scale 33 or larger tires are.

Basically you're going in two opposite directions

You have a quarter ton vehicle and tires that are more suited for a 3/4 ton vehicle.

So if anything's going on with the tires and wheels it's going to be pretty dominant.

I may be wrong but I feel like when I'm saying is at the heart of a lot tire related issues on lifted jeeps with oversized tires.

I only take them to tire specific small owner shops. I don’t trust NTB or Firestone or any other chains for proper tire balancing.

 

[JMT]

I only take them to tire specific small owner shops. I don’t trust NTB or Firestone or any other chains for proper tire balancing.

Try to get a road force balance. KO2’s aren’t common for being out of round, try the balance and check alignment if you haven’t

 

[808jeeper]

Tires are likely the problem, probably not the balance. They are out of round or something. If you have a friend with a TJ or a vehicle with the same bolt pattern, switch them out and drive it. If the shimmy goes away, it’s your tires. YOu can try to have them balanced again by a shop with a road force, but I tried three times with one set of tires and I went through the exact scenarios you did. DW, balance, DW, changed track bar, better, balanced tires, then DW, changed tie rod ends, better, shimmy 40-47, balanced tires, throw some alignments in the sequence, 1/16” toe in, shimmy, shimmy, BOUGHT NEW TIRES and went up from 31’s to 33’s, CHANGED NOTHING ELSE, smooth as GLASS...

I’m running 31s and I just fixed my death wobble with a new track bar. But now I have a shimmy at 40-45 but at 50-55 it goes away

 

[808jeeper]

Tires are likely the problem, probably not the balance. They are out of round or something. If you have a friend with a TJ or a vehicle with the same bolt pattern, switch them out and drive it. If the shimmy goes away, it’s your tires. YOu can try to have them balanced again by a shop with a road force, but I tried three times with one set of tires and I went through the exact scenarios you did. DW, balance, DW, changed track bar, better, balanced tires, then DW, changed tie rod ends, better, shimmy 40-47, balanced tires, throw some alignments in the sequence, 1/16” toe in, shimmy, shimmy, BOUGHT NEW TIRES and went up from 31’s to 33’s, CHANGED NOTHING ELSE, smooth as GLASS...

I’m running 31s and I just fixed my death wobble with a new track bar. But now I have a shimmy at 40-45 but at 50-55 it goes away

 

[Jim King]

For me that has been the most common speed range for tire balance issues.
Try rotating front and back tires, one is probably a little off but good enough for the shop to give to you.

 

[Ephry73]

One thing to note is also air pressure. Make sure your tires are close to each other in pressure if not the same.

 

[808jeeper]

For me that has been the most common speed range for tire balance issues.
Try rotating front and back tires, one is probably a little off but good enough for the shop to give to you.

Gonna try swap front to back today

 

[808jeeper]

One thing to note is also air pressure. Make sure your tires are close to each other in pressure if not the same.

I’m running 30psi all the way around

 

[JMT]

Gonna try swap front to back today

Hopefully that works. At least it would isolate two tires as the culprit(s). If not, you can try to balance again and stress to the tire tech they have to be perfect or you’re just going to come right back.

After that, something is likely wrong with the tires themselves.