Right hand pull revisited

[AndyG]

Being pretty pleased with the steering on my ' 03 , my last few months have been going through the steering on my '06, which has always been a little quirky.

To me , "going through the steering " means everything that can affect steering , all the tie rod ends , unit bearings , axle u joints while I'm in there, control arm bushings and setting the toe, getting the axles parallel and having a good track bar set up.

The TJ has always had a little tendency to drift right, and now that everything is freshened up, it has a consistent right hand pull...it gives you the sense that if that were gone, everything else would be right in the world. In other words , it isn't wandering, darty, rear steering, bump steering or much anything else. But she pulls right.

The ball joints check tight, but a cross caster or lack of caster issue is all I can think of.

It has no brake issues and the tires have 12,000 miles if that.




I'm ready to send it to an alignment shop - before I do, I'd like your opinion on anything I'm overlooking or how to gauge what the shop tells me .

A good example would be ideal alignment numbers.

Thanks , I'd really like to dial this out -

AndyG

 

[Goatman]

Mine pulls right on most back roads due to crown or rust. But on a better road tracks perfectly. This took a while making micro adjustments to my tierod length. Try less toe in by 1/4 turn adjustment. When it starts to get worse start adding toe in by 1/8" turns. Once you get it set be sure to pull the tires and get an accurate measurement and write it down for the next time.
If your steering wheel is even a tiny bit off of dead center you need to fix this too. The steering will bias the power anytime not at 12:00.

 

[rasband]

I’ve had a slight looseness that tended to drift a little any time the jam nut on my front trackbar comes loose. It’s only been a few times, but any time I cinch it back up things feel better again. That’s probably more described as “wandering”, but a dead simple thing to check.

 

[AndyG]

Thanks guys.

 

[basic]

Following this myself as i have the same. Alignment is good, tire wear good, steering wheel centered, still pulls right, even in the left lane of divided highway.

 

[AndyG]

Following this myself as i have the same. Alignment is good, tire wear good, steering wheel centered, still pulls right, even in the left lane of divided highway.

I'll keep you posted and ...it goes to the alignment shop tomorrow.

Since I don't know really the history of the TJ or who built it I want to get some kind of a baseline where things are front and back.

 

[LONGJP2]

If your steering wheel is even a tiny bit off of dead center you need to fix this too. The steering will bias the power anytime not at 12:00.

Should the steering wheel be straight when you let go, even though it's pulling; or should it be straight when you're the holding the wheel to drive straight?

 

[AndyG]

Should the steering wheel be straight when you let go, even though it's pulling; or should it be straight when you're the holding the wheel to drive straight?

Should be straight when wheels are straight , whether held or tracking correctly .

 

[mrblaine]

I'll keep you posted and ...it goes to the alignment shop tomorrow.

Since I don't know really the history of the TJ or who built it I want to get some kind of a baseline where things are front and back.

Pulls right when? When you let go of the steering wheel or can you gently rest your hand on the wheel and hold it straight? (I know we have been over this)

 

[AndyG]

Pulls right when? When you let go of the steering wheel or can you gently rest your hand on the wheel and hold it straight? (I know we have been over this)

Either side of the road , tires your arm and causes you to constantly correct when hands on wheel, taking hand off the wheel is a no can do.

Beats all I've seen. Was hoping the sticking caliper fixed it.

I have a little angle gauge ...it's like a circle with an arrow in side that is magnetic at the base .. Is there any reliable way to check Caster with it? If so, please orient me where to place it.

Will take me 25 or so to respond..headed home in my 2015 F250 I just got that is showing injector failure codes. Geeze.

The TJ has always had a little bit of a tendency to do this that would come and go... Now that I've gone through all the bushings and upgraded the steering this has become the only dominant trait .

 

[AndyG]

Corrected post-

Left lane of 4 lane -it drives excellent, no complaints. Right lane ...immediate pull.

Driver's side caster is 7+ and passenger is 5.5 based on my crude measurements.

3" zone lift , non adjustable control arms save an off set washer on front washer ...can that give me what I'm after?

 

[mrblaine]

Corrected post-

Left lane of 4 lane -it drives excellent, no complaints. Right lane ...immediate pull.

Typical cross caster problem. The amount of cross caster is fixed. The amount of road crown is not.

Driver's side caster is 7+ and passenger is 5.5 based on my crude measurements.

Crude is an understatement considering that you are looking for about a .2 degree difference.

3" zone lift , non adjustable control arms save an off set washer on front washer ...can that give me what I'm after?

Not unless you can come up with a nifty way to twist the axle tubes relative to each other.

If they install an adjustable ball joint and get it not to pull in the right lane, guess what? That's right, it is going to pull in the left lane.

 

[AndyG]

I understand.


Would no toe make this more pronounced ?

I checked my toe , and it was non existent so I set it in 1/8 , and after a 3-4 miles it seemed to calm down considerably.

The back story is everything has been freshened up (control arm bushings, tie rod ends, etc) since this was last talked about it. Back then it was random , because it drove pretty sloppy anyway..so it seemed to come and go until I replaced the control arm bushings and got a stable axle position .

This may be the first sentence I've typed in where everything was actually in good shape and the toe setting would hold . The unit bearings were so shot I was amazed .

I think I need to burn in the tires with the new setting and enjoy it if it's where it needs to be.

 

[Goatman]

As an afterthought it is possible the steering stabilizer can be pushing the tires. Defective or just wrong part. It wouldn't be a huge push, but it could be part of the problem.

 

[AndyG]

As an afterthought it is possible the steering stabilizer can be pushing the tires. Defective or just wrong part. It wouldn't be a huge push, but it could be part of the problem.

Yes I thought about that I've seen gas charged stabilizers do it.. I even considered putting one on its if it would cancel out the pull... But I couldn't remember the direction they tend to push the steering but I think it was left.

I came to the conclusion since the TJ has got a little bit of a checkered past, I wanted to see where everything was setting wise and if cross-caster is designed to fight Road crown I would like to see if they can dial in a little bit typically in the right lane on 4 lanes ... I would rather have it drive well the majority of the time.

 

[AndyG]

Alrighty , so away she goes to the alignment shop...I have cross caster , it's just reversed. 7.2 on driver's side and 6.6 on the passenger.

If I move to England, I'm all good.

Here's the rest of the story ..he explains it can be adusted on the lower control arm cam bolts...sir , it's a straight axle. Just saying.

So I bring up an offset ball joint. Oh no, camber , camber is all ball joints do, camber . Not caster. Camber, camber , camber.

I'm thinking I may have an offset ball joint in already..rotated 180 ° off...thus giving me the wild driver's side high #.

Ok , here's the link sir. Do you realize the same offset that can tilt the tire either way will rotate the knuckle if you set it a 1/4 turn one way or the other sir? Then you have a new caster setting.

With 7.2 and 6.6 , use the Moog offset ball joint on the driver's side , it becomes lower ... I'll have to see what's available but a 1° negative change on the driver's side seems ideal. ..based on my limited knowledge.

Then I will only drive on roads tilted to the right, and life will be good.

Unless my rear main leak gets worse.

Otherwise , I need to take up a mail route and run it backwards.

Anyway , that's my current thought process, and as always , open to input. Unlike my 16 year olds mind.

 

[reddvltj]

Alrighty , so away she goes to the alignment shop...I have cross caster , it's just reversed. 7.2 on driver's side and 6.6 on the passenger.

If I move to England, I'm all good.

Here's the rest of the story ..he explains it can be adusted on the lower control arm cam bolts...sir , it's a straight axle. Just saying.

So I bring up an offset ball joint. Oh no, camber , camber is all ball joints do, camber . Not caster. Camber, camber , camber.

Ok , here's the link sir. Do you realize the same offset that can tilt the tire either way will rotate the knuckle if you set it a 1/4 turn one way or the other sir? Then you have a new caster setting.

With 7.2 and 6.6 , use the Moog offset ball joint on the driver's side , it becomes lower ... I'll have to see what's available but a 1° negative change on the driver's side seems ideal. ..based on my limited knowledge.

Then I will only drive on roads tilted to the right, and life will be good.

Unless my rear main leak gets worse.

Otherwise , I need to take up a mail route and run it backwards.

Anyway , that's my current thought process, and as always , open to input. Unlike my 16 year olds mind.

Your current cross caster could show a tendency to want to steer right, but have you tried swapping your front tires left to right yet?

 

[AndyG]

Your current cross caster could show a tendency to want to steer right, but have you tried swapping your front tires left to right yet?

Correct , hence the thread title ..and yes, tires all rotated . No effect. I have cross caster in the wrong direction , thus most road crown influence is compounded . I'd be better at 6.6 on each side that high on the driver's, and generally better a tad higher on the passenger side as typical specs call for.

 

[mrblaine]

Alrighty , so away she goes to the alignment shop...I have cross caster , it's just reversed. 7.2 on driver's side and 6.6 on the passenger.

If I move to England, I'm all good.

Here's the rest of the story ..he explains it can be adusted on the lower control arm cam bolts...sir , it's a straight axle. Just saying.

So I bring up an offset ball joint. Oh no, camber , camber is all ball joints do, camber . Not caster. Camber, camber , camber.

I'm thinking I may have an offset ball joint in already..rotated 180 ° off...thus giving me the wild driver's side high #.

Ok , here's the link sir. Do you realize the same offset that can tilt the tire either way will rotate the knuckle if you set it a 1/4 turn one way or the other sir? Then you have a new caster setting.

With 7.2 and 6.6 , use the Moog offset ball joint on the driver's side , it becomes lower ... I'll have to see what's available but a 1° negative change on the driver's side seems ideal. ..based on my limited knowledge.

Have to look up the stock specs but I seem to recall the right side having about .2 degrees more than the left side.
I would stick a 1/2 degree in the left side and see what happens. AFTER verifying that the current ones are stock.

However, with the rest of his severe lack of understand about how this works, I'd question whether he suffers the same lack of understanding on how to run his rack.

 

[reddvltj]

If your steering wheel is even a tiny bit off of dead center you need to fix this too. The steering will bias the power anytime not at 12:00.

Are you saying that the power steering pump and steering gear will try to center itself if the steering wheel is not 100% centered and possibly be causing his pull to the right?
If so I would have to say that is an inaccurate statement. My steering wheel has been off since I bought my jeep and it drives straight down the road hands off the wheel as long as there isn't too much road crown.