Hard Top Rear Window Defogger

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DanOinAkron

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I am working on adding the wiring and switch for the rear window refroster on my harp top. My 97 TJ was originally a soft top, so it doesn’t have any of the wiring. I have the rear connector and the factory switches (rear wiper too), so I’m planning to wire it pretty much to the FSM. But I’ve got a couple questions that I’m hoping someone can help me out.
1. I‘d like to run the defroster switch through the instrument cluster as shown in the FSM. Is this “rear window defogger relay control/switch sense” item just a lamp indicator in the cluster? See attached picture.
2. Will this be in my instrument cluster, as my TJ was originally a soft top?
3. Does anyone know what size or ‘type’ of pin connector is used in the instrument cluster connector? If I want to add this circuit, what pin type do I need? See picture.

IMG_6262.jpeg


IMG_6961.jpeg
 
DanOinAkron said:
1. I‘d like to run the defroster switch through the instrument cluster as shown in the FSM. Is this “rear window defogger relay control/switch sense” item just a lamp indicator in the cluster? See attached picture.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's the light in your instrument cluster.

DanOinAkron said:
2. Will this be in my instrument cluster, as my TJ was originally a soft top?
Click to expand...

Yes, it should have the provision for this since Jeep probably didn't change out an entire cluster just because it had a hard top or soft top. Take a fairly bright flashlight and shine it on your cluster through the clear plastic, you can see all the indicator light provisions with a flashlight.

DanOinAkron said:
3. Does anyone know what size or ‘type’ of pin connector is used in the instrument cluster connector? If I want to add this circuit, what pin type do I need? See picture.
Click to expand...

You'll have to pull your cluster to see if the light/socket is there. Match the provision as stated above with the back of your cluster. If I remember correctly, it's a light CC twist and when you feel it "click" it should release and you can pull it out. The light will be similar to what's used for your "4WD" indicator. You may have to do some searching on eBay or Amazon for the socket and light.

Here's also a thread that may help:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...or-a-hardtop-part-1-97-02-dash-harness.15350/
 
TonyArms said:
on my 98 the switch itself had a light in it. I don't think there was ever a light in the cluster.
Click to expand...

TonyArms said:
on my 98 the switch itself had a light in it. I don't think there was ever a light in the cluster.
Click to expand...

I agree. My 97 with hard top has a lighted three switch panel, above the lighter, containing the rear defroster, rear wipers, and fog light switch. I suggest you try to find a salvage with the harness and switches. You can also check ebay or Jeep salvages across the country. The switches are mostly available and cheap. Here is a picture of my three switch panel in my 97.

20230909_163839.jpg
 
ChasUGC said:
I agree. My 97 with hard top has a lighted three switch panel, above the lighter, containing the rear defroster, rear wipers, and fog light switch. I suggest you try to find a salvage with the harness and switches. You can also check ebay or Jeep salvages across the country. The switches are mostly available and cheap. Here is a picture of my three switch panel in my 97.

View attachment 493754
Click to expand...

i have the same setup
 
DanOinAkron said:
I am working on adding the wiring and switch for the rear window refroster on my harp top. My 97 TJ was originally a soft top, so it doesn’t have any of the wiring. I have the rear connector and the factory switches (rear wiper too), so I’m planning to wire it pretty much to the FSM. But I’ve got a couple questions that I’m hoping someone can help me out.
1. I‘d like to run the defroster switch through the instrument cluster as shown in the FSM. Is this “rear window defogger relay control/switch sense” item just a lamp indicator in the cluster? See attached picture.
2. Will this be in my instrument cluster, as my TJ was originally a soft top?
3. Does anyone know what size or ‘type’ of pin connector is used in the instrument cluster connector? If I want to add this circuit, what pin type do I need? See picture.

View attachment 493732

View attachment 493733
Click to expand...

I am seeing that Dead Jeeps have one. Normally, there is a plug to add the hard top wiring, but I believe the kits might solve the issues. There are also write ups here on wiring the hard top. There might be other issues such as getting a good rear wiper motor and getting the fluid to the rear wiper. You may even have the hose with a plug in it if your Jeep hasn't been to hacked by PO's. Hope this helps.

https://deadjeep.com/products/copy-of-97-98-wrangler-tj-dash-wire-harness-with-rear-wiper-defrost-1
 
There’s no light in the cluster. The reason it goes through the cluster is because there is a timer built in. IIRC it’s ten minutes with the first push, and an additional five minutes if you push it right after the first ten minutes are up.
 
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I had to do some custom wiring when I replaced my OEM switch panel with a custom thing so I did some studying on this circuit. There's a timed relay in the instrument panel that de-engergizes the defogger relay. The light on the switch is actually powered from the same leg of the relay that powers the defogger.
 
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Jamison C said:
There’s no light in the cluster. The reason it goes through the cluster is because there is a timer built in. IIRC it’s ten minutes with the first push, and an additional five minutes if you push it right after the first ten minutes are up.
Click to expand...

I thought it might be something along these lines. I assume that is in my cluster, as one of the other replies stated, it seems unlikely they made different clusters based on hard top versus soft top.
 
1904-06LJR said:
Yes, it's the light in your instrument cluster.



Yes, it should have the provision for this since Jeep probably didn't change out an entire cluster just because it had a hard top or soft top. Take a fairly bright flashlight and shine it on your cluster through the clear plastic, you can see all the indicator light provisions with a flashlight.



You'll have to pull your cluster to see if the light/socket is there. Match the provision as stated above with the back of your cluster. If I remember correctly, it's a light CC twist and when you feel it "click" it should release and you can pull it out. The light will be similar to what's used for your "4WD" indicator. You may have to do some searching on eBay or Amazon for the socket and light.

Here's also a thread that may help:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...or-a-hardtop-part-1-97-02-dash-harness.15350/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reference post. That is very helpful.
 
hear said:
I had to do some custom wiring when I replaced my OEM switch panel with a custom thing so I did some studying on this circuit. There's a timed relay in the instrument panel that de-engergizes the defogger relay. The light on the switch is actually powered from the same leg of the relay that powers the defogger.
Click to expand...

hear said:
I had to do some custom wiring when I replaced my OEM switch panel with a custom thing so I did some studying on this circuit. There's a timed relay in the instrument panel that de-engergizes the defogger relay. The light on the switch is actually powered from the same leg of the relay that powers the defogger.
Click to expand...

ChasUGC said:
I am seeing that Dead Jeeps have one. Normally, there is a plug to add the hard top wiring, but I believe the kits might solve the issues. There are also write ups here on wiring the hard top. There might be other issues such as getting a good rear wiper motor and getting the fluid to the rear wiper. You may even have the hose with a plug in it if your Jeep hasn't been to hacked by PO's. Hope this helps.

https://deadjeep.com/products/copy-of-97-98-wrangler-tj-dash-wire-harness-with-rear-wiper-defrost-1
Click to expand...

I have the switches and their connectors, and the rear connector for the hard top. So I don’t really want to spend the money on the whole harness. But thanks for the link.
 
My third question on the original post was actually about the pins inside the connector of the instrument cluster. If I want to add that circuit through the cluster, does anyone know the size or name or type of connector pin that goes on the end of the wire and into the connector? I think I have to add this loop through the cluster to get the timer functionality. But I don’t know what pin type is inside of that connector. I’m looking for something along the lines of what’s shown on this picture. I can measure the blade width on the cluster side, but what shape goes into the connector side?

IMG_6260.png
 
After some more digging I believe the cluster uses a 2.8mm molex blade connector. But I’m still not 100% sure of the shape or if there are multiple shapes. I was thinking maybe I couple de-pin one of the wires and see what it looks like, however I can’t figure out how to do that either. Does anyone know how to take this connector apart? It looks like you should be able to pinch the red tabs and pull it out, but I tried multiple times and it won’t budge. Seems like I’m missing something.

IMG_6978.jpeg
 
There are probably many auto dismantlers in your area too, where you might be able to find a salvaged 1997 jeep with a hard top and the other side of that harness connection. That way maybe you could pick a part yourself and remove it cheaply.
 
DanOinAkron said:
After some more digging I believe the cluster uses a 2.8mm molex blade connector. But I’m still not 100% sure of the shape or if there are multiple shapes. I was thinking maybe I couple de-pin one of the wires and see what it looks like, however I can’t figure out how to do that either. Does anyone know how to take this connector apart? It looks like you should be able to pinch the red tabs and pull it out, but I tried multiple times and it won’t budge. Seems like I’m missing something.

View attachment 495518
Click to expand...

If you want to "jerry rig" something instead of getting the harness connection, I don't know if there is a pin connector for that sort of thing to connect individually to that harness connection. There are threads where someone has reconnected a hard top to a Jeep and maybe those can help you. Hope this helps.
 
Yeah, thanks. The problem is I need to run through the instrument cluster to get the timer of the defogger in the circuit.
 
DanOinAkron said:
Yeah, thanks. The problem is I need to run through the instrument cluster to get the timer of the defogger in the circuit.
Click to expand...

When it says 'sense' it means the cluster is looking for a signal from an input; in this case the rear def.switch.

I can't remember who, but someone on here has a good post about what pins are used where (with links to buy).
You'll probably need a special pin extraction tool. Usually inserted in the front to pull wire out from the rear.

FSM 8W-01-11 shows how to get the pins out.
 
Last edited:
I went through something similar with my 97. It was originally a soft top, and the PO added a hardtop but never hooked up the wipers or defogger. I had the correct wiring going to the back of the top and the relays in the engine compartment, but didn't have the wiring for the switch. I found the right wires for the defogger power and relay ground trigger (switch sense) at the 100 pin harness connection and tied into them with a piggy back harness. Ran a ground wire to the switch and power from the relay to the switch. Ran the relay ground trigger wire right up to the dash cluster, and ran the instantaneous ground signal wire from the switch to near the instrument cluster. I was happy to see that the defogger heated up and the switch lit up when I grounded the relay. All I had to do now was connect to the right wires in the plug for the cluster. To my horror, I had no wires or terminals for the switch sensor in the plug. Winter was here and I drove through the winter with my dash ripped apart, using an alligator clip on the relay ground wire to ground it and run the defogger. The next summer, I eventually gave up on trying to find the right pins for the cluster plug and bought a ripped up parts harness on Ebay that had two cluster plugs, for like thirty bucks. Then I bought a universal pin removal kit on amazon for about 10 bucks that had about twenty different tools on it. I pulled a couple of wires from the ebay plug, fit them into my plug and tied my wires into them. And it worked. Only took me about a year to get it working. As for that red plastic thing, I destroyed the one on my plug trying to get it out. I had to replace that with one from the ebay plug too. So all you have to do is find a donor instrument panel plug and you can get it working.
 
Billyrayjimbob said:
I went through something similar with my 97. It was originally a soft top, and the PO added a hardtop but never hooked up the wipers or defogger. I had the correct wiring going to the back of the top and the relays in the engine compartment, but didn't have the wiring for the switch. I found the right wires for the defogger power and relay ground trigger (switch sense) at the 100 pin harness connection and tied into them with a piggy back harness. Ran a ground wire to the switch and power from the relay to the switch. Ran the relay ground trigger wire right up to the dash cluster, and ran the instantaneous ground signal wire from the switch to near the instrument cluster. I was happy to see that the defogger heated up and the switch lit up when I grounded the relay. All I had to do now was connect to the right wires in the plug for the cluster. To my horror, I had no wires or terminals for the switch sensor in the plug. Winter was here and I drove through the winter with my dash ripped apart, using an alligator clip on the relay ground wire to ground it and run the defogger. The next summer, I eventually gave up on trying to find the right pins for the cluster plug and bought a ripped up parts harness on Ebay that had two cluster plugs, for like thirty bucks. Then I bought a universal pin removal kit on amazon for about 10 bucks that had about twenty different tools on it. I pulled a couple of wires from the ebay plug, fit them into my plug and tied my wires into them. And it worked. Only took me about a year to get it working. As for that red plastic thing, I destroyed the one on my plug trying to get it out. I had to replace that with one from the ebay plug too. So all you have to do is find a donor instrument panel plug and you can get it working.
Click to expand...

LOL. What you are describing is exactly the path I suspect I’m headed down. I’ve been debating if I want to spend the money on a used wiring harness and try and steal a couple pins out of the cluster plug. But I hate spending that money when all I really need is two of the right size end pins, which probably only cost 0.25 each, if I knew which one to buy.
 
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