Andy G needs brake love

AndyG

AndyG

Because some other guys are perverts
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Location
Alabama
My 2005 LJR has a Vanco big brake kit, and has a firm pedal with engine off and soft when the engine is started- goes 3/4” to the floor, the jeep stops ok all considered but doesn’t feel super smooth.

It seems identical to the issue @Alex01 had with his notched knuckles- but i’ve not taken them apart.

I’ve bled them to death and replaced the master cylinder- still the same.

Love to hear from you guys on what to look for.

Thanks
Andy
 
you have Blaine’s Vanco kit? That doesn’t have slides on the knuckles. The calipers are mounted on pins, threaded into the bracket, which is bolted to the knuckle.

Check your wheels and any fittings too, make sure you don’t have a little leak. That can create a firm pedal without assist, and cause a soft pedal with the additional boost from vacuum.
 
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Mike_H said:
you have Blaine’s Vanco kit? That doesn’t have slides on the knuckles. The calipers are mounted on pins, threaded into the bracket, which is bolted to the knuckle.

Check your wheels and any fittings too, make sure you don’t have a little leak. That can create a firm pedal without assist, and cause a soft pedal with the additional boost from vacuum.
Click to expand...

Correct on the kit, Is there anything around the caliper I need to be looking for?
 
I just found this on the floorboard of my truck does anybody have any idea what in the world I’m looking at?

Could this have something to do with my new master cylinder

image.jpg
 
AndyG said:
My 2005 LJR has a Vanco big brake kit, and has a firm pedal with engine off and soft when the engine is started- goes 3/4” to the floor, the jeep stops ok all considered but doesn’t feel super smooth.

It seems identical to the issue @Alex01 had with his notched knuckles- but i’ve not taken them apart.

I’ve bled them to death and replaced the master cylinder- still the same.

Love to hear from you guys on what to look for.

Thanks
Andy
Click to expand...

You know that the person that designed them (and knows more about brakes than most people ever will in two lifetimes) participates on this forum and has a website with a phone number and email to reach him, right?
 
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psrivats said:
You know that the person that designed them (and knows more about brakes than most people ever will in two lifetimes) participates on this forum and has a website with a phone number and email to reach him, right?
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

And I knew one day I’d regret not keeping a healthier rapport with him. I think today is that day.

I’ve ran a gallon of Dot 4 through it, done every imaginable test for the vacuum booster, and am on my second master cylinder- and I’m right where I started.

Pedal travels too far once you start the engine. It’s drivable but the big brake kit isn’t able to shine.

The rear rubber lines come to mind, they appear original.

I plan to get some cleaner tomorrow and clean all the connections and check for a leak-

To top it off I am getting persistent radiator cap leaks- on cap 3 now, a Stant I had in the shop.

I’ve read posts he’s made on other forums too, but can’t glean enough information to even know if I should bleed it running, what the light tells you or anything.

I just don’t know enough, or even know what to look for if I tear them down- except sticky pins or something obvious falls out.
 
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AndyG said:
Absolutely.
Click to expand...

Then you know what is the right thing to do.

I am sure we have many smart folks here (I am not one of them) and someone, or people collectively, will perhaps eventually help you get to the root cause. Key word there is perhaps because you can spend 4 weeks chasing it and still not understand. I know because I was there with my vibration issue and shocks for months.

Pride is a wonderful terrible thing. There is the good kind that keeps you humble and drives you to do better, and the bad kind that makes you do silly things. Like not wanting to ask for help when you need it. The sooner we learn to differentiate between them and keep the bad kind in check, the better we will be. And I am not saying this with any malice or ill-will, just something for you to ponder on.
 
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AndyG said:
Absolutely.

And I knew one day I’d regret not keeping a healthier rapport with him. I think today is that day.

I’ve ran a gallon of Dot 4 through it, done every imaginable test for the vacuum booster, and am on my second master cylinder- and I’m right where I started.

Pedal travels too far once you start the engine. It’s drivable but the big brake kit isn’t able to shine.

The rear rubber lines come to mind, they appear original.

I plan to get some cleaner tomorrow and clean all the connections and check for a leak-

To top it off I am getting persistent radiator cap leaks- on cap 3 now, a Stant I had in the shop.

I’ve read posts he’s made on other forums too, but can’t glean enough information to even know if I should bleed it running, what the light tells you or anything.

I just don’t know enough, or even know what to look for if I tear them down- except sticky pins or something obvious falls out.
Click to expand...

Whatever you do, post back here when you find a solution. Having it as a resource here will be a good thing.


Edit: I honestly thought that was your goal in the first place, didn't know you two had drama. If you can, call him, I hear he's a pretty nice guy...
 
psrivats said:
Then you know what is the right thing to do.

I am sure we have many smart folks here (I am not one of them) and someone, or people collectively, will perhaps eventually help you get to the root cause. Key word there is perhaps because you can spend 4 weeks chasing it and still not understand. I know because I was there with my vibration issue and shocks for months.

Pride is a wonderful terrible thing. There is the good kind that keeps you humble and drives you to do better, and the bad kind that makes you do silly things. Like not wanting to ask for help when you need it. The sooner we learn to differentiate between them and keep the bad kind in check, the better we will be. And I am not saying this with any malice or ill-will, just something for you to ponder on.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that post is taken with appreciation for it’s good intent.
 
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PNW_LJ said:
Whatever you do, post back here when you find a solution. Having it as a resource here will be a good thing.


Edit: I honestly thought that was your goal in the first place, didn't know you two had drama. If you can, call him, I hear he's a pretty nice guy...
Click to expand...

For sure- I have always believed that solutions posted add true value. Even struggling with this I found so many prior posts here and other places with a wide variety of information it kept me going with ideas.

On that note I may have found the cause- hopefully tomorrow or Saturday I can post that it is resolved- or that I’m crawling to Quail Valley to see if Blaine can share some more of his magic. Just seeing the things he did to this one and how clean the work was spoke volumes. But my favorite part was the list of work he performed- that really gave a view of things he knew to look for. He knows his craft.
 
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@AndyG Blaine said to post the below info and ask you the couple questions. He can't see your posts..You can call him.

Never bleed with the engine running.

Never bleed with the key off, power up the dash and watch the brake like with the parking brake off.

Pedal almost to the floor with engine running and a hard pedal with the engine off is air in the system, find it.

Pedal should drop no more than 1” with light foot pressure on the pedal when the engine is started after several pumps with the engine off to bleed off pressure.


Why was the master bench bled?

What other work was done to the brake system and why?

PNW_LJ said:
Whatever you do, post back here when you find a solution. Having it as a resource here will be a good thing.


Edit: I honestly thought that was your goal in the first place, didn't know you two had drama. If you can, call him, I hear he's a pretty nice guy...
Click to expand...

There is no drama. It matters more to Blaine to be factual and accurate than be funny, goofy, or whether or not a correction will hurt someone’s feelings. It tends to offend some people even when that wasn't the intent.
 
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psrivats said:
@AndyG Blaine said to post the below info and ask you the couple questions. He can't see your posts..You can call him.

Never bleed with the engine running.

Never bleed with the key off, power up the dash and watch the brake like with the parking brake off.

Pedal almost to the floor with engine running and a hard pedal with the engine off is air in the system, find it.

Pedal should drop no more than 1” with light foot pressure on the pedal when the engine is started after several pumps with the engine off to bleed off pressure.


Why was the master bench bled?

What other work was done to the brake system and why?



There is no drama. It matters more to Blaine to be factual and accurate than be funny, goofy, or whether or not a correction will hurt someone’s feelings. It tends to offend some people even when that wasn't the intent.
Click to expand...

First thanks to all.

New Replacement Master bench bled just because “I heard I should” and there was an instruction sheet showing how in box. Bear in mind I also heard I needed a new master cylinder.

No other work performed on brake system under my ownership.

Pedal drops 1” perfectly when I start it with system pumped and foot on pedal.

Bled with key off.

2 things jump out- I have no idea what the brake light should tell me- excited to learn.

After posting last night I checked all connections and checked pads- - main thing that grabs me is my rear pads are very worn....had no idea.

May replace one copper washer- fitting below line seems damp but likely is spillage from bleeding.

Thanks again guys. It certainly feels like lots if air or a piston traveling too far if there is such a thing.

Andy
 
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BlueC said:
I think the problem is in your booster.
Click to expand...

I’m open to any ideas-

I went through the tests above in the earlier post- passes all tests

I can’t find anything wrong with the check valve or vac lines
 
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