Death wobble puzzle
- Thread starter Hilton
- Start date
DW doesn’t get better. You either have it or you don’t. It sounds like you have a shimmy. Did you get your tires perfect balanced? If you did, your tires are probably bad. They’re cupped, out of round, something. Have a friend with some wheels/tires you can switch over and try? I know you switched your fronts and rears with some positive results.
Also, some poor information in this thread. Don’t go spending a lot of money to fix things that aren’t wrong. Tires, tires, tires. I had to get a new set once to stop what began as DW, progressed toward a shimmy after parts, and was cured by new tires.
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Unbalanced.
If correctly balanced, and properly inflated then one of the tire aspects is not good. I will look if they have a dent or bulge on the sidewall, the one on the radial side is hard to detect unless very pronounced.
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How does a bad tire come into play only when you hit a bump?
Stop and think. Hitting a railroad track sets it off. How does tire balance come into play with a steering/suspension reaction?
I’m not trying to school anybody I’m just trying to point out something that I can’t get my mind around. I know low and imbalanced tires will do it ...once they reach a speed high enough the imbalance generates the energy or harmonic.
A rolling tire tries to return to center by the cyclic force ...If you hit a bump and the steering can’t maintain stability then the tires try to regain their tracking and they over correct...and then rapidly over correct in the opposite direction to the point they auto oscillate and become death wobble.....the bump was the initiating force and the tires’ balance that worked fine up to that jolt did not automatically become imbalance.
You want to diagnose it correctly before you buy parts...but the first step in a correct diagnosis is looking at the right part of the equation...Unless the tire had a broken belt I would not look as hard at the tires as I would the steering and control arms in this scenario.
i wonder sometimes if this distinction were made more often if it would help to at least get the owner a little less bewildered. A tire related issue will almost always be speed specific. A steering issue will be the result of an impact. We have all seen these threads.
My construction company worked on a property with a strange water issue in the front yard...underground spring? We had the water tested and it had flouride....that told us it was from the city water supply and got us looking in the right direction, and then it was quickly solved.
I’ve personally dealt with a number of DW cases, from road water in bead locks to failing track bar bushings to bad control arm mounts. Not ruling out tires, that may be my next adventure.
Stop and think. Hitting a railroad track sets it off. How does tire balance come into play with a steering/suspension reaction?
I’m not trying to school anybody I’m just trying to point out something that I can’t get my mind around. I know low and imbalanced tires will do it ...once they reach a speed high enough the imbalance generates the energy or harmonic.
A rolling tire tries to return to center by the cyclic force ...If you hit a bump and the steering can’t maintain stability then the tires try to regain their tracking and they over correct...and then rapidly over correct in the opposite direction to the point they auto oscillate and become death wobble.....the bump was the initiating force and the tires’ balance that worked fine up to that jolt did not automatically become imbalance.
You want to diagnose it correctly before you buy parts...but the first step in a correct diagnosis is looking at the right part of the equation...Unless the tire had a broken belt I would not look as hard at the tires as I would the steering and control arms in this scenario.
i wonder sometimes if this distinction were made more often if it would help to at least get the owner a little less bewildered. A tire related issue will almost always be speed specific. A steering issue will be the result of an impact. We have all seen these threads.
My construction company worked on a property with a strange water issue in the front yard...underground spring? We had the water tested and it had flouride....that told us it was from the city water supply and got us looking in the right direction, and then it was quickly solved.
I’ve personally dealt with a number of DW cases, from road water in bead locks to failing track bar bushings to bad control arm mounts. Not ruling out tires, that may be my next adventure.
Rubicon88
TJ Addict
What do you mean, “the wobble is much better?” Do you have to come to a complete stop for it to stop, or not? Is it set off only by hitting an object in the road? Or does it begin at a certain speed? Or on a curve? Have you tried to toe out slightly? If so, Did this help?
Rubicon88
TJ Addict
First time doing drum type brakes?
Oh my...
I never say this but popcorn and surround sound please. Put the women and children to bed and make sure nobody is in the line of fire of tool throwing.
Rubicon88
TJ Addict
That's a good point and not saying the OP doesn't have DW ..
At times there are people who get a vibration or shimmy...whatever...and they think immediately they've got death wobble
True DW will bring you right out of it. Cruising along at 50mph to holy shit...WTF is that
Jacket4256
TJ Enthusiast
First time doing drum type brakes?
Oh my...
Put the women and children to bed and make sure nobody is in the line of fire of tool throwing.
this times 100, I will pay someone next time I do drums they are the most ridiculous thing in the ENTIRE world.
Guys I'm sorry I haven't responded. I'm not abandoning the thread I've been working some pretty long hours.
I'm gonna get a little rest and address the questions.
I also haven't had time to get under the Jeep again.
I like the level 1-* wobble scale.
I'm gonna get a little rest and address the questions.
I also haven't had time to get under the Jeep again.
I like the level 1-* wobble scale.
On the off chance, and I know this is a long shot, but did you check your frame just behind the steering box and just forward of the track bar? If its cracked it will torque or twist causing some death wobble when you hit a big enough bump. Mine was and it caused me headaches for months before a tech found it.
I spent some time under the Jeep. The frame looks good and every bolt I put a socket on was tight. I did the preparation under the tire trick to see if the hub would move. It didn't.
I toed OUT 1/16" and the wobble seems to have gone away. I hit the bridge at the bottom of my road and it seemed like it was going to wobble but then it didn't.
I can definitely drive it now. I'm planning to take it to work tomorrow.
I'll report back.
I toed OUT 1/16" and the wobble seems to have gone away. I hit the bridge at the bottom of my road and it seemed like it was going to wobble but then it didn't.
I can definitely drive it now. I'm planning to take it to work tomorrow.
I'll report back.
I'm not going to say anyone is right, or even wrong, about how to fix your DW.
I'll just post DW my experience: My TJ had real DW, not during what I'd call a good test drive with two drivers going 10+ miles on several different roads at multiple speeds, but about 10 miles into the 40+ mile ride home after buying it stopping was the only way to correct it.
First I installed a new Mood track bar because my son thought the original at 63,000 miles was too loose. Moog may have had slightly tighter bushings but it wasn't like it was welded to the axle and frame and it didn't stop DW. We tried rotating the tires and that didn't change anything so I took it to a great mechanic who I didn't realize had years of Dodge dealer experience. He did an alignment which corrected the 5/8" toe in
but that didn't help DW. He said my tires stuck out too far and threw off the scrub radius.
I had to ask WFT are you talking about? He told me in the early 2000s all Dodge mechanics were taught about scrub radius by engineers that Chrysler sent everywhere to correct the earlier Dodge Ram 2500s that also had DW problems because their front tires were too far in, the opposite of mine. He had me try a couple different sets of used tires on some wheels with more back space than what mine had. Here is one of the front wheels installed for the test:
For about a week with those wheels I had NO DW. I found a set of 4 original Moab wheels to match my spare and got some new Duratrac 235/85 R16 and have had NO DW since I bought them in early June 2018. Mud packing up behind the spokes sometimes creates an unbalanced mess but not DW.
I do see you have wheel spacers and what looks like Moab TJ wheels. Maybe you could try removing the front spacers and going for a test drive and see what happens. Just keep in mind you don't want to turn too sharp in a parking lot. I get away with no spacers because my tires are basically 31.75 x 9.25
I drove it a lot today and hit a bunch of bumps that I thought should make it wobble. It was perfect, and perfect Jeep weather.
Maybe the 1/16" toe out was the solution. Maybe going from 29 to 26 psi, it could have been the ~ grand in Currie parts I put on it. It also could have been the exorcism... we may never know.
I'll take it to work tomorrow and Thursday and see what happens.
Thanks to everyone who helped. I appreciate it.
Maybe the 1/16" toe out was the solution. Maybe going from 29 to 26 psi, it could have been the ~ grand in Currie parts I put on it. It also could have been the exorcism... we may never know.
I'll take it to work tomorrow and Thursday and see what happens.
Thanks to everyone who helped. I appreciate it.
Awesome news and glad to hear it. Now you have your own story to share and try to help for the next guy who comes on here with DW and their are out of ideas!
Any update here??
Trying to track down my DW nightmare and going toe-OUT seems like it has helped a few folk.
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