Nucking Futserts!!!

Imagineer

Imagineer

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Rant of the day . . . Nucking Futserts!!! (or 5 out of six can’t be bad, right?)

I finally had an afternoon cut away the welded slid plate, patch the frame and install new threaded nutserts.

I followed the internet advice for swedging the inserts; first torqueing them to 40, then 60, then 80 ft/lbs. Just my luck, one of them (the middle one, passenger side) failed at 40 ft/lbs and the threaded barrel pulled straight through. Since I welded each to the frame patch before torqueing, I’m pretty much screwed. So two questions…

Is it ok to leave the skid plate attached at only 5 points? (as a mechanical engineer, I think, yes, it will be fine).

If more of these little f*ckers decide to break, is it taboo to hole saw the inside of the frame rail at each fastener to provide access for a through bolt and nut? I would weld additional reinforcing at the hole saw locations and also install rubber body panel plugs to keep crap out.
 
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Imagineer said:
Rant of the day . . . Nucking Futserts!!! (or 5 out of six can’t be bad, right?)

I finally had an afternoon cut away the welded slid plate, patch the frame and install new threaded nutserts.

I followed the internet advice for swedging the inserts; first torqueing them to 40, then 60, then 80 ft/lbs. Just my luck, one of them (the middle one, passenger side) failed at 40 ft/lbs and the threaded barrel pulled straight through. Since I welded each to the frame patch before torqueing, I’m pretty much screwed. So two questions…

Is it ok to leave the skid plate attached at only 5 points? (as a mechanical engineer, I think, yes, it will be fine).

If more of these little f*ckers decide to break, is it taboo to hole saw the inside of the frame rail at each fastener to provide access for a through bolt and nut? I would weld additional reinforcing at the hole saw locations and also install rubber body panel plugs to keep crap out.
Click to expand...

Which nutserts did you acquire and install? If they are OEM equivalent (or any nutsert for that matter) the internet is entirely incorrect in how to set them because it overlooks one key factor and that is how thick is the material the nutsert is being set in. Also, all the write-ups or videos I have seen say to use anti-seize on the threads and the use of same means you have to reduce the torque by about 20% or you wind up over torqueing the fastener. So, if you take a frame that is thicker than the guy had that did the original write-up, lube the threads and then get after it with the torque wrench at 80 ft lbs, you will be well over 100 and will probably strip it out.

The only way to set the frame nutserts is by feel. The first movement will be fairly hard to get the barrel to start to collapse. Then it will get easier and when it starts to set the effort to turn the ratchet will firm up considerably. At that point, snug it down and then back it off watching the flange on the nutsert to see if it spins, if it does, snug it a bit more and repeat. When you get it to where it won't spin easily, install the rest and install the skid plate and then torque them down to the correct value. The final torque value will finish any setting of the nutsert that is needed and it will work fine.

You may want to re-think the holes on the inside of the frame and how much fun it would be to reach your arm over the top of the skid and blindly get a nut and wrench on a bolt to hold the skid on. ;)
 
I bought the nutsert kit from from BlackMagicBrakes.com.
Yes, I used anti-seize and in consideration of the reduced torque values, didn't go all the way to 80 ft/lbs.
The one that failed, let go before hitting 40 ft/lbs. The nutsert sheared off and pulled the threaded barrel through, leaving a .625" hole in the flange. I think it was cracked before I received it.
The frame patches I made were 1/8" steel.
Good point about accessing from the inside. In retrospect, if I get to where I need to hole saw access points in the frame, I'll make the middle holes from the outside and have the corners on the inside.
 
Imagineer said:
I bought the nutsert kit from from BlackMagicBrakes.com.
Yes, I used anti-seize and in consideration of the reduced torque values, didn't go all the way to 80 ft/lbs.
The one that failed, let go before hitting 40 ft/lbs. The nutsert sheared off and pulled the threaded barrel through, leaving a .625" hole in the flange. I think it was cracked before I received it.
The frame patches I made were 1/8" steel.
Good point about accessing from the inside. In retrospect, if I get to where I need to hole saw access points in the frame, I'll make the middle holes from the outside and have the corners on the inside.
Click to expand...
I am BlackMagicBrakes.com. I purchase those nutserts in quantities of 5000 at a time from the factory that supplies them to Chrysler and they are the identical part just zinc plated. While I cannot absolutely guarantee that there wasn't a defective one in the batch, I can't conceive that there would be based on how many we have sold, and how few problems there have been.

If you are convinced that the nutsert was defective and there is the correct frame thickness in place, I'm more than pleased to send you another one or two to help solve your problem. Be very aware that frame thickness is critical. I had a customer strip out 6 of them at 40-50 ft lbs because he was trying to set them in a frame that had been plated and was over a 1/4" thick on the bottom. The OEM frame is about .150" thick and is within the grip range of the OEM nutsert.

Just so you know that I am hands on with this stuff, I have several sections of OEM frame from doing outboard jobs which I measure for thickness and then use them to set these nutserts in any time there is a reported issue. I grab one out of the current batch or box and go set it in a section of frame to see if there are any issues I can see and to date, I've yet to find one. That and I've personally used about a 100-150 repairing frames over the years both the version I sell and the OEM version with no discernible difference or issue.

Again, not saying you didn't get one that was defective, just that I do everything I can to ensure you are getting a part that does what you expect it to. Let me know if you want some more and I'll be glad to send them out. BTW- don't weld them, they are zinc plated and the welding doesn't like it and the welding may damage the nutsert.
 
Also love your title.

I did away with my Nucking Futserts by welding 1/2" nuts to heavy flat washers then I opened the holes to recess the nuts into the frame and welded the washers to the frame. No nutserts no problems. This method also added a 1/8" gap between the frame and skid that no longer traps moisture and crap and eliminating that rust point.
 
Hucking Fippies.....LOL

I used BM's futserts when my bolts started spinning and they went in without a hitch. It's nice to be able to remove the skid plate without that fear of when it's going to happen. It happened on my first TJ as well.
 
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