TJ Apex modded vs stock Rubicon decision

BoundlessBasu

BoundlessBasu

KTBFFH
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Hi!

Lurked around for a long time, and finally am in a position to pull the trigger on a TJ purchase. My first vehicle purchase so I want to be extra cautious. I am not mechanically inclined as in, I've never had the chance, but I want to learn with this vehicle, but also do not want to spend too much more after purchasing at the current time.

I have narrowed down between these two:

'02 5spd TJ Wrangler X Apex -$13.5k CAD
https://www.kijijiautos.ca/vip/10177548/
'03 5spd TJ Wrangler Rubicon - $8.5k CAD
https://www.kijijiautos.ca/vip/10693982/
One has new mods (seriously check out the post!), nicer interior, and components I would have upgraded anyways. Rubicon axles including rear Dana 44 (is front rubi also Dana 44 or Dana 30/35?) & TruLock w/ 4.11 gearing. One silly concern though is the Pioneer deck being standout for thiefs.

Floorpans and rocker panels need to be replaced due to rust. Windshield frame is rusting slightly. Surface rust elsewhere that buffing can take care of. Frame is mint (supposedly, I haven't personally checked it out yet).

There has been no engine work on this from the previous owner. I do not know if the owner before him had done anything or not.
So I'm expecting as well, I have no idea if all will need to be done, or just some but listing various maintenance items I've seen that need to be addressed on TJ's:

- Thermo/Waterpump/Radiator/Heater Core
- Coolant flush
- RMS, Oil Pan Gasket, Valve Cover Gasket
- Ujoints replacement (how do I check the worthiness of a ujoint?)
- Serp Belt
- Muffler replacement (owner suggested himself doing this eventually)
- Sensors
- Power steering

Air filter, brakes and clutch are good I know that for sure.
Running on 35's for ~5000km without adjustment of speedo. ODO shows 155kkm.
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The '03 Rubi, is basically stock but has had pretty much all that work done already. However at 205kkm. The interior is also pretty bland compared to the Apex model. It would just require the mods down the road. It has also had a rebuilt starter, and bigger battery. Alternator, power steering and clutch are good.

For the difference of $5000 CAD, I get all those goodies but immediate concern is the floorpan replacement and then any issues that might crop up with the engine. I've seen floorpans go for ~$70 per side, serp belts are cheap, gaskets are cheap etc., but the mechanic labour time is the killer cost. How easy would it be to do these by myself if I am starting off with no tools or knowledge except for YouTube, and forums.

I am wanting to keep this vehicle for the entire duration of its potential lifespan, but I also need reliability as it would be my only vehicle to take me to work and school.

I would appreciate any help or advice from the knowledgeable folks on this forum!
 
Jamison C said:
Not to hijack but I’m selling my 02 Apex soon and it’s in much nicer shape than the one you listed above 😉
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This⬆️
If the Jeeps have body rust I guarantee they have frame rust. The American southwest is probably the best place to buy a Jeep. I bought mine in Arizona and I never even had to use penetrating oil on a single bolt. It might take a little more work to title and import it but it will be worth it.
 
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I’d go for the Rubicon. You are getting true Rubicon axles with lockers and a 4.1 gear ratio with 6 speed can handle up to 32-33’s. The interior can be fixed up and $5000 can get you a Zone 4.25” combo lift, adjustable front track bar, etc...you get to make it your own
 
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Appreciate the advice!

Apex:
Received pictures of near rocker panel, floorpan and windshield. I think I am going to pass on the Apex unfortunately.
https://imgur.com/a/UlzVYWi


'03 Rubi:
Received more overall pictures including undercarriage
https://imgur.com/a/EA66ed9

I see some windshield rust too, other than that, the undercarriage looks good aside from the draglink.
If I go with this, how quickly should I act on replacing the fenders and windshield frame?

My main concern though is I spotted rust on the original pictures near the rear bumper. I added these two pics last to the album too. Is that surface rust there? I've asked for better pictures regarding this, will update when received.
 
Looks like surface rust on the rear to me but you never know until you actually see it... I've never seen the windshield area rusted out like that before. I wonder if it would be easy/cheap for a body shop to weld in a patch.

The camera angle may be a bit off but it looks to me that the rear right of the tub is buckling under the tire carrier hinge.
 
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My honest (and somewhat still novice) opinion is that every TJ is of the same "value." That is to say, if someone is selling their 98 4.0L 32RH TJ for $5k, and someone else is selling the same spec car for $10k, the cheaper one likely needs about $5k in work. People like to distract with cheap upgrades a lot of the time (light bars, stickers on the hood, cheap grab handles, etc) to try and make up for the discrepancy between the vehicles value and price, but at the end of the day, you're going to wind up spending just about the same no matter what (when you factor in what your time is worth). That said, it's up to you to decide if you want to throw the money at it now and buy a cleaner example, or throw the money at it later when you have some repairs to do (frame, engine, etc).
 
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There is a giant gaping hole in the fender of the rubicon. Wouldn't go near that one unless you want a project.

Screen Shot 2019-08-27 at 2.01.25 PM.png




EDIT: Whoops, missed the album. Frame has been painted. The body has significant rust. Would not be surprised at all to see the inside of the frame in pieces.
 
jodomcfrodo said:
There is a giant gaping hole in the fender of the rubicon. Wouldn't go near that one unless you want a project.

View attachment 111786
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I wouldn't go near it for $9k after taxes and all, but if you could talk him down to $5-6, my understanding is that moisture from the road collects in a brace welded on under the fender, and that spot is particularly prone to rusting, even on clean examples. Maybe the frame is still clean?
 
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Camhabib said:
I wouldn't go near it for $9k after taxes and all, but if you could talk him down to $5-6, my understanding is that moisture from the road collects in a brace welded on under the fender, and that spot is particularly prone to rusting, even on clean examples. Maybe the frame is still clean?
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Hard to say. 03-06 manuals had an unintentional drain hole where the automatic transmission skid would be. Inside could be somewhat fine because of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't. You're going to need new fenders, new windshield, and then all the other body parts that rust. Pinch welds are the killer if they rust, but you also have to deal with the area under the tailgate and the rear corners.
 
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You'll be hard pressed to find a TJ here (Canada) that doesn't have rusted out fenders. I've also yet to see an 03-06 that doesn't have a rusted out windshield frame, but all the 97-02's I've seen, the windshield frame is ok.
 
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I see a lot of spray paint on the frame. It's hard to tell from the pictures how much if any rust is hiding. It wouldn't hurt to look. If my calculator is right $8.5k CAN converts to about $6400.00 US which isn't to bad for a Rubicon. I would take a look and have cash in hand to see if the seller will negotiate a bit. Worst case you could part it out and get your money back.
 
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Stick your fingers in the holes around the rear control arm mount (the big round ones right next to the rear wheels). If you feel metal / rust flakes in large quantities, run. Also feel around the inside of the oval holes near the transfer case skid plate. If there are any large flakes or a ton of mud / sand / dirt, run.

If you want to be really sure, bring a borescope. You can get ones that plug into your phone. Either way, this is going to be a rusty project. There are many hidden areas on a TJ tub that can become rusty over time. This Jeep has certainly been exposed to a good amount of salt.
 
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derekmac said:
You'll be hard pressed to find a TJ here (Canada) that doesn't have rusted out fenders. I've also yet to see an 03-06 that doesn't have a rusted out windshield frame, but all the 97-02's I've seen, the windshield frame is ok.
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I was taking recently with a Jeep shop and they told me that at some point (2002 maybe) they changed the metal composition of the frames to 50/50 recycled to all new steel. Wonder if there’s something like that going on with the fenders (in reverse) or maybe just a small difference in the way they were out together?
 
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