Winch Line

[Kyle_W]

I figured it'd be good to have a thread devoted solely to discussion on winch lines (Just to be fair, I took this information from the 'other forum' as it is all accurate):

STEEL
Pros:

• Inexpensive
• Durable (can drag on rocks a couple - COUPLE - of times without having to worry, whereas synthetic line is likely to tear)
• Completely UV light stable
• Heat stable

Cons:

• Very heavy
• Barbs/breaks renders the line un-usable for safety reasons (Warn states that a couple of barbs is normal, its the 'barbs and breaks throughout the whole line that warrants replacement)
• Doesn't float in water
• Difficult to repair in the field
• Not flexible
• Stores energy; so if it breaks and you don't have a blanket or at least some form of damper on the line (which you should always do as a precaution), damage to your vehicle or injury/death is possible

SYNTHETIC:
Pros:

• Floats in water
• Much lighter than steel line
• Much safer; it will snap just like steel line, however, being lighter than steel it won't cause near as much damage
• Possible to splice a break in the field
• Flexible
• UV light stable; however, if you want to go the extra mile, some kind of winch cover or protection wouldn't hurt

Cons:

• Very expensive ($300+ for a good quality 100' line)
• Much less heat resistant
• Not abrasion resistant
• Hard to detect any possible internal damage

NOTE: Both types of fairleads can be used for each type of line

 

[Kyle_W]

Also, I am trying to decide how to go about my winch setup. My VR8000 came with steel cable - but - to cut down on weight and possible future danger on the trail if it ever snaps, I want to get a synthetic winch line.

I did some research and came up with Master Pull's 100' winch line: http://www.masterpull.com/3-8-classic-winch-line-17-600-lbs/

Now, as well I researched that buying strength-rated sailboat synthetic line was a cheaper alternative; however, has anyone else actually done that?

Spending that kind of dough on a rope warrants the question: how long will it last in the "elements"? A steel line is gonna last a long time if it's maintained, not abused, and protected. However, I guess if synthetic line is used on ships which are subjected to constant sunlight, abuse, and salt water then synthetic lines probably last just as long as steel?

 

[mrblaine]

I figured it'd be good to have a thread devoted solely to discussion on winch lines (Just to be fair, I took this information from the 'other forum' as it is all accurate):

STEEL
Pros:

• Inexpensive
• Durable (can drag on rocks repeatedly, whereas synthetic line is likely to tear)

Steel is certainly more abrasion resistant but you can't drag it over rocks with impunity or it will get damaged. Winching for self recovery has the potential to be very hazardous so you need to be very vigilant and protect all aspects of your recovery gear and keep it safe and out of harm's way so it can save you when needed.

UV light stable[

Yes, but the implication is that synthetic isn't and while that may be true to an extent, it's almost a non issue. I live in a high UV environment and have been using synthetic winch line of various brands since late 99 and have never had a UV related issue and I take no extra steps to protect the line.

Heat stable

True.
Cons:

• Very heavy

Barbs/breaks in the line can cut your hands if not wearing gloves

Those are from damage. When the line gets damage, it should be replaced.

• Doesn't float in water
• Difficult to repair in the field
• Not flexible

Stores energy; so if it breaks and you don't have a blanket or at least some form of damper on the line (which you should always do as a precaution), damage to your vehicle or injury/death is possible

As a con or drawback it should be noted that synthetic line stretches and stores energy just like steel does and if it breaks under load, the recoil speed is the same. The main difference is the potential for damage is much smaller due to the lighter weight of the synthetic.

SYNTHETIC:
Pros:

• Floats in water
• Much lighter than steel line
• Possible to splice a break in the field
• Flexible

Cons:

• Very expensive ($300+ for a good quality 100' line)
• Has to be UV protected
• Much less heat resistant
• Not abrasion resistant
• Hard to detect any possible internal damage

NOTE: Steel line has to use a roller-fairlead, synthetic line has to use a hawse-fairlead

Neither is true, Warn supplied hawse fairleads for years with their steel cables and synthetic is readily used with a roller fairlead and in fact if you can handle the forward protrusion and weight of a roller fairlead, it is better for the line.

 

[Kyle_W]

Steel is certainly more abrasion resistant but you can't drag it over rocks with impunity or it will get damaged. Winching for self recovery has the potential to be very hazardous so you need to be very vigilant and protect all aspects of your recovery gear and keep it safe and out of harm's way so it can save you when needed.


Yes, but the implication is that synthetic isn't and while that may be true to an extent, it's almost a non issue. I live in a high UV environment and have been using synthetic winch line of various brands since late 99 and have never had a UV related issue and I take no extra steps to protect the line.

True.
Cons:

• Very heavy

Those are from damage. When the line gets damage, it should be replaced.

• Doesn't float in water
• Difficult to repair in the field
• Not flexible

As a con or drawback it should be noted that synthetic line stretches and stores energy just like steel does and if it breaks under load, the recoil speed is the same. The main difference is the potential for damage is much smaller due to the lighter weight of the synthetic.

SYNTHETIC:
Pros:

• Floats in water
• Much lighter than steel line
• Possible to splice a break in the field
• Flexible

Cons:

• Very expensive ($300+ for a good quality 100' line)
• Has to be UV protected
• Much less heat resistant
• Not abrasion resistant
• Hard to detect any possible internal damage

Neither is true, Warn supplied hawse fairleads for years with their steel cables and synthetic is readily used with a roller fairlead and in fact if you can handle the forward protrusion and weight of a roller fairlead, it is better for the line.

Thank you! Agreed on many of your points and also learned a couple things - corrected my post as necessary.

Also - I did not know that about fairleads. I don't understand then why even have two different types at all? If a roller fairlead is superior? (puts less of a bend in whatever line you are using if undergoing a side pull)

 

[dylansalrin]

I hate roller fairleads. I hate the look, I hate the design and potential to fail, and I hate the rust. I ordered a steel hawser for steel line. That way I'm not worried about a roller popping out for a side pull.


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[mrblaine]

Thank you! Agreed on many of your points and also learned a couple things - corrected my post as necessary.

Also - I did not know that about fairleads. I don't understand then why even have two different types at all? If a roller fairlead is superior? (puts less of a bend in whatever line you are using if undergoing a side pull)

Different needs. I like rollers but I need the lower profile and less weight of the hawse so I use a well designed version from TRE.

I also failed to address the dampers on steel line. I only have one question for you. How do you predict where the line is going to break?

If you have 75' of line out, where do you put the blanket?

 

[dylansalrin]

Get a couple weighted blankets and put one by the hook, and one in the middle. If you only have one, put it in the middle. There is no way to know for sure unless an obvious weak point presents themselves.


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[Kyle_W]

Different needs. I like rollers but I need the lower profile and less weight of the hawse so I use a well designed version from TRE.

I also failed to address the dampers on steel line. I only have one question for you. How do you predict where the line is going to break?

If you have 75' of line out, where do you put the blanket?

Good question. I don't know! Upon some research, i'd say to put it right in the middle - and better yet, put two dampers on your line at the 1/3rd and 2/3rd mark.

 

[mrblaine]

Good question. I don't know! Upon some research, i'd say to put it right in the middle - and better yet, put two dampers on your line at the 1/3rd and 2/3rd mark.

Who carries two dampers and how do you know that the damper will actually grab the line? If you have 75' out and put it in the middle, that leaves 30+ feet that can recoil and do harm.

 

[mrblaine]

There is no way to know for sure unless an obvious weak point presents themselves.


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That is how I do it. There is no way to know for sure so keep all valuables out of the kill radius. If you have 50 feet of line out, no one but the driver(s) is inside that radius. If I don't use a damper, then I have no illusions of safety and treat it as such.

 

[Kyle_W]

That is how I do it. There is no way to know for sure so keep all valuables out of the kill radius. If you have 50 feet of line out, no one but the driver(s) is inside that radius. If I don't use a damper, then I have no illusions of safety and treat it as such.

Oh ok so you were saying the whole time just don't have anyone in the danger zone in the first place?

Also - what synthetic line have you used? Just bought the Warn winch that comes with it?

 

[mrblaine]

Also - what synthetic line have you used? Just bought the Warn winch that comes with it?

in order
Masterpull
Viking x 5 or 6
X Line
TRE x 5 or 6
Superwinch x 2 UTV winches.

FYI, Warn is a late comer to the synthetic line market. I was using synthetic when Warn was telling folks not to in early 2000.

 

[Kyle_W]

in order
Masterpull
Viking x 5 or 6
X Line
TRE x 5 or 6
Superwinch x 2 UTV winches.

FYI, Warn is a late comer to the synthetic line market. I was using synthetic when Warn was telling folks not to in early 2000.

Thank you! Funny, Masterpull was the one that I was gonna get if I DID buy a synthetic line.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Make sure you go with 3/8" for synthetic. Since synthetic is more prone to abrasion damage, the larger 3/8" gives a significantly better safety margin than 5/16 which is only strong enough when its entire diameter is intact.

That said, even though I primarily wheel on rocks, I've never experienced any abrasion or UV damage on the synthetic ropes I've been running 13-14 years now.

Additionally, I had to replace my first winch's wire rope twice due to kinks and broken strands caused by the rope pulling down between the windings when the rope had not been tightly rewound between uses. I would rewind my rope when possible but that's not always possible some days on the trail when you're doing multiple pulls in a row where the rope can't always be laid on neatly. I have the same inability to always be able to rewind between each pull with synthetic rope but it doesn't get damaged during such times. So while I have had to replace my initial wire rope twice, I've never had to replace a synthetic rope. So the additional cost of synthetic isn't so bad when you look at it that way.

 

[billiebob]

One thing about recoil. If you are pulling to another vehicle someone is gonna get hit. While a blanket, jacket helps best practice is to stand well off to the side. And you don't need a "warn cable blanket". Any heavy jacket will work too.