Thoughts on installing a Savvy mid-arm on my 04 LJ with 35s

[wheelman2925]

I have been looking over different savvy mid arm build threads and have come across very consistent info regarding wheelbase and tire size combinations. From what I gather, 35's on a tj at 99-101 with a 19 belly height is desirable. Are there any inherent short comings with running 35's on an LJ with a savvy mid arm while being at +/- 103. I get the increased rear over hang is greater on an LJ, but does the 2 difference in wheelbase have a detrimental effect outside of breakover angle?

I'm looking to assemble a jeep that can out wheel my 17 JKUR on 35's but still be essentially a jeep through and through. Basically, a well thought out LJ on 35's. Thanks for any input.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

You can't beat Savvy's mid-arm suspension.

 

[jjvw]

The two are kinda related, kinda not.

Are you wheeling the LJ where the mid arm would solve problems you are having? Has the lower break overangle been an issue? Same question with the LJ overhang.

 

[wheelman2925]

The two are kinda related, kinda not.

Are you wheeling the LJ where the mid arm would solve problems you are having? Has the lower break overangle been an issue? Same question with the LJ overhang.

The LJ is completely stock. I found it 4 years ago and have used it as a fair weather daily driver and in town trip rig. The only 4wd it has seen in my use is snow duty. I had much different plans when I first bought and found this place a bit after and poured over as much tech as I could to develop a better build plan. The JK has been wheeled a bunch at rausch creek and anthracite. It has served me very well and been a lot of fun. The over all size can be a down side along with being in really nice shape. The LJ is well worn in at just shy of 200k and I'm more comfortable taking on tougher trails etc in it.

 

[jjvw]

The LJ is completely stock. I found it 4 years ago and have used it as a fair weather daily driver and in town trip rig. The only 4wd it has seen in my use is snow duty. I had much different plans when I first bought and found this place a bit after and poured over as much tech as I could to develop a better build plan. The JK has been wheeled a bunch at rausch creek and anthracite. It has served me very well and been a lot of fun. The over all size can be a down side along with being in really nice shape. The LJ is well worn in at just shy of 200k and I'm more comfortable taking on tougher trails etc in it.

From what I've seen of Rausch over the years, the standard 35s build with raised skids is more than enough. If after the outboarded and tuned shocks, you still need improved climbing and stability, then you might find a benefit to the midarm. But if you are keeping the stock shock mounts, then there is no reason for the midarm.

 

[rasband]

It doesn't sound like you have the problems the midarm was designed to solve. It's the same reason I currently don't plan on it - even though it's a very good setup for those that need it.

 

[wheelman2925]

From what I've seen of Rausch over the years, the standard 35s build with raised skids is more than enough. If after the outboarded and tuned shocks, you still need improved climbing and stability, then you might find a benefit to the midarm. But if you are keeping the stock shock mounts, then there is no reason for the midarm.

I have noticed the outboard goes hand in hand with mid arm quite a bit. I am in no rush to get this done and will try to avoid redoing too many things. Outboarding the rears is a project in and of itself but I feel it's worthwhile in the end.

 

[TRE3TOP]

It doesn't sound like you have the problems the midarm was designed to solve. It's the same reason I currently don't plan on it - even though it's a very good setup for those that need it.

You don’t have to have a problem to want the savvy mid arm. You can simply want to improve from your current situation which it sounds like he wants to do.

Your LJ on 35s should out wheel your JKUR on most things because it’s a little bit more appropriately sized for its tire size and wheel base. The 35s on the JKUR being at 116” will be a little small and it’ll hang up more. The JKUR may perform well in certain situations due to that extra length, and it also has about 5 inches more width in the axles. (Assuming same tire/locker etc)

The savvy mid arm is a well thought out upgrade for the TJ/LJ platform. If you’re wanting to improve upon what you currently have, you more than likely won’t be upset you decided to go that route.

 

[TRE3TOP]

I have noticed the outboard goes hand in hand with mid arm quite a bit. I am in no rush to get this done and will try to avoid redoing too many things. Outboarding the rears is a project in and of itself but I feel it's worthwhile in the end.

I’m looking at following a similar pattern as you and I’m projecting the order of operations as so: mid arm install + track bar reconfigure(doing that at the same time for other reasons you may not need that) getting all that setup and working properly, then tackling the outboard of the rear shocks + frame side coil mount correction to move the coils back to a neutral position.

 

[jjvw]

I have noticed the outboard goes hand in hand with mid arm quite a bit. I am in no rush to get this done and will try to avoid redoing too many things. Outboarding the rears is a project in and of itself but I feel it's worthwhile in the end.

I consider the shock outboard as a sort of gatekeeper mod for the midarm. Not in that one needs the other, but that a well tuned outboard will offer far greater value and a broader range of performance increases than the midarm will. And if you aren't pushing the capability of a rig with an outboard, you will see very little benefit to the midarm.

 

[wheelman2925]

It doesn't sound like you have the problems the midarm was designed to solve. It's the same reason I currently don't plan on it - even though it's a very good setup for those that need it.

You don’t have to have a problem to want the savvy mid arm. You can simply want to improve from your current situation which it sounds like he wants to do.

Your LJ on 35s should out wheel your JKUR on most things because it’s a little bit more appropriately sized for its tire size and wheel base. The 35s on the JKUR being at 116” will be a little small and it’ll hang up more. The JKUR may perform well in certain situations due to that extra length, and it also has about 5 inches more width in the axles. (Assuming same tire/locker etc)

The savvy mid arm is a well thought out upgrade for the TJ/LJ platform. If you’re wanting to improve upon what you currently have, you more than likely won’t be upset you decided to go that route.

That basically sums up my thoughts. The JK has worked very well and have nothing but praise for it. The LJ will fill a different purpose and be built to tackle tougher and tighter trails. The 35's on the JK are great 90% of the time but they do come up a bit short here and there. Thanks for the input.

 

[Irun]

I've run Rausch for years on a short arm LJ and 35s. It was more than capable to handle almost every trail there, including Reds. Breakover angle was a little bit of an issue for me, but that's because I was at a 17.5" belly height. The real issue I consistently ran into was the overhang. That said, there's no doubt in my mind that a mid arm would have improved the Jeeps abilities. If it's what you want, don't compromise!

 

[wheelman2925]

I've run Rausch for years on a short arm LJ and 35s. It was more than capable to handle almost every trail there, including Reds. Breakover angle was a little bit of an issue for me, but that's because I was at a 17.5" belly height. The real issue I consistently ran into was the overhang. That said, there's no doubt in my mind that a mid arm would have improved the Jeeps abilities. If it's what you want, don't compromise!

TBH I hadn't really thought much about the overhang until recently. I can see why people with the skill and will build a TJ-6. I always come away impressed on just how well a tj/lj on 35's does. That's what led me to hunt down my LJ, I knew a lot less then but at least the prices were cheaper.

 

[rasband]

If it's what you want, don't compromise!

You don’t have to have a problem to want the savvy mid arm. You can simply want to improve from your current situation which it sounds like he wants to do.

Just to clarify, I didn't suggest that if you want something you shouldn't do it if it's not immediately fixing a problem you have, OP. Just that it doesn't sound like right now you have that problem. I would build a bit more before going to a midarm since those other things will be more impactful sooner (full tuck, proper lift, chromoly shafts, outboard, raise the rear crossmember since you're in an LJ, armor up).

I very much enjoy how my LJ performs on 35s.

 

[jjvw]

Just to clarify, I didn't suggest that if you want something you shouldn't do it if it's not immediately fixing a problem you have, OP. Just that it doesn't sound like right now you have that problem. I would build a bit more before going to a midarm since those other things will be more impactful sooner (full tuck, proper lift, chromoly shafts, outboard, raise the rear crossmember since you're in an LJ, armor up).

I very much enjoy how my LJ performs on 35s.

Lockers, too.

 

[wheelman2925]

Just to clarify, I didn't suggest that if you want something you shouldn't do it if it's not immediately fixing a problem you have, OP. Just that it doesn't sound like right now you have that problem. I would build a bit more before going to a midarm since those other things will be more impactful sooner (full tuck, proper lift, chromoly shafts, outboard, raise the rear crossmember since you're in an LJ, armor up).

I very much enjoy how my LJ performs on 35s.

I'm going to do all of those things. I'll get a currie hp44 up front with 5.38's and arb's at both ends along with cromo shafts. TBH this build plan has taken shape from what Iearned wheeling my JK and reading here. I get that a mid arm is not a must do any more than ditching the 30 up front. However, the appeal of getting one driveshaft up higher and gaining strength is very attractive. Just like the mid arm, I appreciate the careful design and what it provides to my jeep. Along with the outboard, the install and research appeal to me just as much as the performance benefits. I get that I may not have problems and understand that perspective.

 

[Irun]

TBH I hadn't really thought much about the overhang until recently. I can see why people with the skill and will build a TJ-6. I always come away impressed on just how well a tj/lj on 35's does. That's what led me to hunt down my LJ, I knew a lot less then but at least the prices were cheaper.

The overhang was never something that stopped me. You just have to be willing to drag the rear. This is one reason to make sure you get a light rear bumper that fits tight and protects the rear frame ends as much as possible. And, FWIW, @rasband and @jjvw have good points. The mid arm is a solution to a problem. All the other mods mentioned will likely take you places you hadn't thought possible on a short arm.

 

[rasband]

I'm going to do all of those things. I'll get a currie hp44 up front with 5.38's and arb's at both ends along with cromo shafts. TBH this build plan has taken shape from what Iearned wheeling my JK and reading here. I get that a mid arm is not a must do any more than ditching the 30 up front. However, the appeal of getting one driveshaft up higher and gaining strength is very attractive. Just like the mid arm, I appreciate the careful design and what it provides to my jeep. Along with the outboard, the install and research appeal to me just as much as the performance benefits. I get that I may not have problems and understand that perspective.

If you ever think you'll go bigger than 35s, you may want to consider a different front axle. That's not to hate on the HP44, they just use the OEM size ball joints. Otherwise it sounds like you're thinking through everything! It'll be fun to watch your build if you do a thread.

 

[Apparition]

The overhang was never something that stopped me. You just have to be willing to drag the rear. This is one reason to make sure you get a light rear bumper that fits tight and protects the rear frame ends as much as possible. And, FWIW, @rasband and @jjvw have good points. The mid arm is a solution to a problem. All the other mods mentioned will likely take you places you hadn't thought possible on a short arm.

The overhang is the #1 reason I’m building a new LJ. It has kept me from making an obstacle.

 

[Apparition]

If you ever think you'll go bigger than 35s, you may want to consider a different front axle. That's not to hate on the HP44, they just use the OEM size ball joints. Otherwise it sounds like you're thinking through everything! It'll be fun to watch your build if you do a thread.

As a HP44 owner I would agree with this. The only benefit to the 44 is 5.38’s and that’s it. If 37’s are a thought go with a 60.