That's what NewScum and Commiefornia do best: Pass laws. FUCK THAT FUCKING STATE!
EV thread
- Thread starter Apparition
- Start date
It's a perfect example of mob rule, since it's a single party state for the most part.
This green stuff is easy. You just need money. Like I've said, buy a new car, a home solar and wind hybrid system, and a battery storage system. And you are all set. You can continue your lifestyle at 50-100% of normal depending on the weather,time of year, and how much you scale back your consumption.
It will only cost you $100-250,000 to set up a system for a typical single family home with two adults and two kids. The price varies because of location, battery storage, how many cars you need, and consumption habits.
I have 4 cars registered under my name. So anything I designed would need to cover a house and 4 EVs. Under CA's tightening restrictions, I would need to account for replacing my gas appliances like the furnace and hot water heater with electricty in my designs.
It will only cost you $100-250,000 to set up a system for a typical single family home with two adults and two kids. The price varies because of location, battery storage, how many cars you need, and consumption habits.
I have 4 cars registered under my name. So anything I designed would need to cover a house and 4 EVs. Under CA's tightening restrictions, I would need to account for replacing my gas appliances like the furnace and hot water heater with electricty in my designs.
I've been looking A LOT at some solar and battery bank stuff and WOW it's incredibly expensive. Solar itself grid tied isn't that bad and possibly the closest thing to paying for itself if not viewed through an insurance type lens. Of course net metering laws have a big effect on how much solar is even practical.
I want to acquire some small EV type stuff and then I'd like the EVs and tools and stuff to be my battery backup, besides maybe 1 setup ~5KWH, but I'm thinking I will just plug that into the wall, but grid tie enough solar that I can always power some basic useful items like a freezer, fridge, those tools and small EVs (like Ebike, maybe a golf cart) and even limited microwaving and some tool usage by swapping to off-grid in the event of a prolonged emergency.
I am thinking that I should look at discharge rates and how often I discharge and possible just keep most batteries maintained for max life and only use during emergencies if I do add something like server rack batteries or other lithiums that have AMAZING cycling characteristics. I think with just a handful of KW of solar that I can go grid tie, which should eventually pay for itself then I'll just have my other off-grid system partially mobile, but mostly ready to "flip the switch". I still need to do more research and I'm thinking of setting up a 48V bank of lead acid and maybe even 1 that's Li to compare. Looking at discharge stuff and the fact that I can keep it insulated in my basement I think Li might win the day, but doing just a bit more than floating lead acid and checking the water and electrolyte stuff can really get A LOT of years out of those batteries, if I'm not cycling them.
8 years ago I setup a tiny 12V battery backup and haven't used it, but as far as I can tell those batteries are in great shape, just sitting there waiting to be used. I'm thinking of waiting until the 10 year mark and then starting to cycle them and see how they do and then swapping that for a 48V lead acid setup.
With all of this, I've been watching for "test" and other types of used Li batteries hitting the street as well and trying to make a setup based on those, but I'm just not ready to commit major cash to that yet. However Li does look promising more so with 1 KWH closer to sub $100 rather than $300+. Especially if I can make that setup a bit more mobile and the good thing about batteries is that I just need to charge them I don't need to waste time in the sun if I don't need to. If I can get 100 lbs and 5 kwh in my truck, that can be pretty darn handy. By the way I was looking at that a lot more a week or 2 ago, so my math may be wrong in a few areas.
We price this stuff out on a larger scale. Our last solar project put 3 million support piles in to hold the solar panels.
But I look at the home scale versions for myself. The biggest problem I have is the grid connected skims off grid fees and you have to relinquish control of the system to the local utility.
So they can shut down your system anytime they need to curtail it. They can limit your power while shipping the output to the grid. Etc.
You really need to read the local laws as non-grid tied may be illegal.
Now if the utility wanted to rent my roof and install their own with a break on m bill, then sure they can control it. But I'm not going to buy them a power plant.
But I look at the home scale versions for myself. The biggest problem I have is the grid connected skims off grid fees and you have to relinquish control of the system to the local utility.
So they can shut down your system anytime they need to curtail it. They can limit your power while shipping the output to the grid. Etc.
You really need to read the local laws as non-grid tied may be illegal.
Now if the utility wanted to rent my roof and install their own with a break on m bill, then sure they can control it. But I'm not going to buy them a power plant.
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TKFX
Member
Why wouldn't the battery banks work for undergeneration? You have a bank of power that you can spit back out when demand is high. Recharge when the demand is low. Also your battery material claim is baseless.
The 230% increase in the price of lithium this year indicates there is not enough to go around. It is now
It's priced in Yuan instead of $ for another reason.
Batteries should continue to rise in price beyond normal people's ability to afford them as more EVs, home, and more utility scale BESS systems come online.
You don't have to believe me.
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This. For most people on a good grid it doesn't make financial sense to have batteries at all. If you need backup for when the grid goes down a generator is better.
I'd want some batteries for lighting/tv/computers and to keep the fridge running through the night. That doesn't take much at all and lead acid are the most cost effective when I last looked. A problem with lithium batts is that they time age as well as cycle age. Then run higher-demand appliances during the day. And have a generator for high-demand situations.
I've used my car (chevy volt) to keep the fridge and chest freezer going. Didn't have to turn on the gas motor before the power came back.
EV will never happen except in a niche market.
Besides, where does 90% of the energy come from that charges the batteries? Fossil fuels. So, what are you accomplishing exactly?
How long are you willing to wait at a charging station? How many chargers at charging stations will there have to be to accommodate all electric cars? The grids for these stations will have to be about 6 acres for every current gas station today. Good luck with that.
Batteries lose capacity over time. Have fun replacing your $10,000-20,000 battery.
What is going to happen to travel and pulling large trailers long distances for transportation of good and/or vacations? Good luck with that.
Airplanes. Good luck with that.
Mining of the necessary elements that make up these batteries is extremely invasive and toxic. Good luck with that. I'm sure it doesn't matter to anyone until it's in your backyard and your water supply.
Besides, where does 90% of the energy come from that charges the batteries? Fossil fuels. So, what are you accomplishing exactly?
How long are you willing to wait at a charging station? How many chargers at charging stations will there have to be to accommodate all electric cars? The grids for these stations will have to be about 6 acres for every current gas station today. Good luck with that.
Batteries lose capacity over time. Have fun replacing your $10,000-20,000 battery.
What is going to happen to travel and pulling large trailers long distances for transportation of good and/or vacations? Good luck with that.
Airplanes. Good luck with that.
Mining of the necessary elements that make up these batteries is extremely invasive and toxic. Good luck with that. I'm sure it doesn't matter to anyone until it's in your backyard and your water supply.
TKFX
Member
Did you read anything in this thread before posting? All those points were talked about
No. I just chimed in. It's too long. Sorry for repeating, but who wants to read 14 pages on EV? Now, 14 pages on shocks I'll read.
Charging station doesn’t equal gas station. The reason being is you can charge them at home every night while you sleep. So if your EV vehicle gets 350 miles of range, the only reason you would ever need a charge station is for trips further than 350 miles round trip. My guess is the average American would only need one a handful of times per year.
My statement is if cars are "all electric." The underlying assumptions are the load on the grid in neighborhoods across the US would lead to the need for such charging stations. At any rate, the grid can't handle that demand and still ~90% of the grid is supported by fossil fuels. So what is this accomplishing?
The national average overall net CO2 is still lower for electric cars with zero tailpipe emissions than ICE cars. Of course it depends on how your region gets its energy, but the national average still shows less CO2 for an all electric car. Here’s a link where you can choose your area and it will show comparison of the lifecycle CO2 production for different vehicles while taking into account how your local power is made.
https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html
Here’s Arizona and the national average
TKFX
Member
Why am I worried about CO2 emissions? Someone deal with sunspots please.
30-40 years from now please report back your findings. Where are you getting the energy for charging these cars? Interact with something rather than your imagination. Oh, and welcome to the forum.
The generation percentage varies by grid. There isn't a grid. Western, Eastern, Texas.
The markets in the grids are CASIO, MISO, SPP, PJM, ISO-NE, NYISO, ERCOT, etc.
Nationwide its 20% renewable. Which means 80% is not and will need to be transitioned.
Go here and watch it if you are interested. Or the market web pages for more detail.
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/dashboard/electric_overview/US48/US48
Right now the nation is using around 537,000 MW/hours.
The markets in the grids are CASIO, MISO, SPP, PJM, ISO-NE, NYISO, ERCOT, etc.
Nationwide its 20% renewable. Which means 80% is not and will need to be transitioned.
Go here and watch it if you are interested. Or the market web pages for more detail.
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/dashboard/electric_overview/US48/US48
Right now the nation is using around 537,000 MW/hours.
OP
Any idea how usage would change if we were to hit 25%, 50% or 75% electric vehicle usage?