Bad ring gear or carrier?

[billyp]

Moving from my other thread. Dana 44 gear install with Eaton Elocker And 4.56 Yukon gears — all new.

I have not been able to get the backlash variation within spec. Today I took the carrier out and throughly cleaned the shim, races and case with some brake clean just to make sure there’s not debris. I’ve tried several different sets of shims as well.

I number 1,2,3,4 on the ring gear roughly 90 degrees between each number. What I did was took a bunch of measurements around each point.

2,3,4 all are within .002” of each other.

1 is as bad as .005” different from 2,3,4. Also, between teeth around one there can be a great deal of variation.

1 is always worse every time we install and remove the carrier. Tried different shim values as well pushing the backlash in and out.

At this point, I don’t think I’ve got just a stupid error on my part. Seems like the ring gear or carrier is whacked. We lightly filed and cleaned carrier and ring gear before install — so doubting it’s not seated well but maybe. Also have checked ring gear bolt torque a few times. Set at 55 ft-lbs

Any thoughts? Probably at the point I need to take to a pro to diagnose.

 

[Foxhound67]

My first thought would be to unbolt and reseat the ring gear, rotate it either 90 or 180 degrees from it's current position on the carrier and see if the problem moves from number 1 index to one of the others.

 

[JEEPCJTJ]

While NOT reusing the ring gear bolts is adhered to by almost everyone I'd do what Foxhound67 suggests with the same bolts just to see what happens. Maybe the problem will move, maybe it won't. Maybe you'll find one little chunk of something that made it's way between the gear and carrier while installing. Maybe you'd even get super lucky and it just fixes the issue like spinning an unbalanced tire on the rim. <Maybe just ignore that, but at this point who knows?

Anyway, If it gets you were you should be, THEN you should probably replace those bolts. I'd only do 2 at a time, I'd hate to get too much too loose and end up back where I started.

GOOD LUCK

 

[hosejockey61]

Moving from my other thread. Dana 44 gear install with Eaton Elocker And 4.56 Yukon gears — all new.

I have not been able to get the backlash variation within spec. Today I took the carrier out and throughly cleaned the shim, races and case with some brake clean just to make sure there’s not debris. I’ve tried several different sets of shims as well.

I number 1,2,3,4 on the ring gear roughly 90 degrees between each number. What I did was took a bunch of measurements around each point.

2,3,4 all are within .002” of each other.

1 is as bad as .005” different from 2,3,4. Also, between teeth around one there can be a great deal of variation.

1 is always worse every time we install and remove the carrier. Tried different shim values as well pushing the backlash in and out.

At this point, I don’t think I’ve got just a stupid error on my part. Seems like the ring gear or carrier is whacked. We lightly filed and cleaned carrier and ring gear before install — so doubting it’s not seated well but maybe. Also have checked ring gear bolt torque a few times. Set at 55 ft-lbs

Any thoughts? Probably at the point I need to take to a pro to diagnose.

The first thing I always recommend is to remove and clean everything up, which you did. Rules that out.

My suggestion is to mark both the ring gear and carrier with your reference points. Then rotate the ring gear 180 and see if the problem follows the ring gear or stays in the same spot at the carrier. That should help you figure out whether the issue lies with the gear or locker.

 

[billyp]

The first thing I always recommend is to remove and clean everything up, which you did. Rules that out.

My suggestion is to mark both the ring gear and carrier with your reference points. Then rotate the ring gear 180 and see if the problem follows the ring gear or stays in the same spot at the carrier. That should help you figure out whether the issue lies with the gear or locker.

Thanks — I’ll do that….probably next weekend at this point. Are you concerned with reusing the ring gear bolts once I figure this out?

 

[hosejockey61]

Thanks — I’ll do that….probably next weekend at this point. Are you concerned with reusing the ring gear bolts once I figure this out?

If it was my own setup, then I'd have no problem using them because I can fix it. If it were a paying customer, I'd use new bolts. Red loctite is your friend.

You can find new bolts pretty inexpensive, but others will be really expensive. Try rock auto.

 

[billyp]

If it was my own setup, then I'd have no problem using them because I can fix it. If it were a paying customer, I'd use new bolts. Red loctite is your friend.

You can find new bolts pretty inexpensive, but others will be really expensive. Try rock auto.

Made some progress. Removed the ring gear, cleaned everything throughly and reinstalled with the ring gear180 degrees from where it was previously. My runout is now within .002”.

I’m still concerned about my carrier preload though. I’ve got it shimmed .117” on the carrier side and .151” on the ring gear side. With enough force I can pull out the carrier by hand. I’ve got the backlash to .007-.009” with these shims. I’ve tried putting in another .006” or so (smallest I have) and then it’s nearly impossible to get the carrier in even with the spreader. Any thoughts? Maybe a video of me pulling the carrier would help?

I’m having a hell of a time getting thin shims in without bending them even sandwiched in between thicker ones when I can.

 

[Rickyd]

Can you substitute a thick shim for a slightly thicker one?or hide the .006" one inside the pack with thick ones on the outsides

 

[billyp]

I don’t think so, but I’ll take a look at what I’ve got. Hoping I’m good with what I have but want to see what everyone thinks.

 

[hosejockey61]

Try adding 3 or 4 instead of 6. Sometimes it's just that way.

 

[billyp]

May have to buy more. Not sure I’ve got a 3 or 4. So Mike, sounds to you like too little preload?

 

[NashvilleTJ]

May have to buy more. Not sure I’ve got a 3 or 4. So Mike, sounds to you like too little preload?

You don’t need a 3 or 4 thou shim to change your shim pack by 3 or 4 thou. You change the combination of shims in your shim pack to get to your target total thickness.

 

[billyp]

Yeah I get it…just not sure I’ve got enough variation to do that.

What I’m really trying to decide is if I need to. Carrier is in their tight, but if I pull pretty hard I can get it out by hand.

 

[hosejockey61]

Yeah I get it…just not sure I’ve got enough variation to do that.

What I’m really trying to decide is if I need to. Carrier is in their tight, but if I pull pretty hard I can get it out by hand.

If you can get it out by hand then you don't have enough pre-load.

 

[billyp]

If you can get it out by hand then you don't have enough pre-load.

I was afraid you’d say that. I’ll see what I can come up with. I’m thinking of trying to add a couple thou to the carrier side and hopefully my backlash will still be in spec.

Question on how you put the carrier in with the shims, I’ve been putting one side in the axle, and putting the carrier in at a bit of an angle and pushing the other side shims in. I’ve tried putting the carrier in holding shims on both sides, but can never seem to get that to work.

 

[NskLJ]

I was afraid you’d say that. I’ll see what I can come up with. I’m thinking of trying to add a couple thou to the carrier side and hopefully my backlash will still be in spec.

Question on how you put the carrier in with the shims, I’ve been putting one side in the axle, and putting the carrier in at a bit of an angle and pushing the other side shims in. I’ve tried putting the carrier in holding shims on both sides, but can never seem to get that to work.

I will use a sharpening stone and run it over the gear and carrier to get any high spots removed usually at one of the holes.

 

[hosejockey61]

I’ve tried putting the carrier in holding shims on both sides, but can never seem to get that to work.

Patience is the key. That is the easiest way to do it believe it or not. As long as you can get everything started, you just play the tap here, tap there game until it's in. You can have too many shims as well as too few shims. Find that happy spot between that and you'll be good to go.