New Guy Here With A Question About Suspension

[Skees]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here to the Forum (I've been browsing for a couple weeks and just wanted to say this seems like an awesome community and I'm happy to be part of it).

Little back story about my newly acquired TJ: My Dad had bought it back in 2003 as a completely stock specimen. He spent quite a bit of money making into a crawler and throughout my younger years we spent a ton of time off-roading it and having a ton of fun. I was only 13 at the time, so I don't know exactly everything he has done, just a few things I'm aware of (lift, long arms, tummy tuck, wheels/tires, warn hubs up front, 44 rear axle, 30 front axle with upgraded splines, onboard air, air locker up front). We had a ton of fun wheeling this thing around. Now, fast forward to a few months ago, as my Dad has been getting older his health isn't doing so great. So, needless to say the Jeep has just been sitting in his garage collecting dust. It's a 97 and has around 43k miles on it. He recently had a really bad run with his health and spent about a month in the hospital, and was unfortunately sent home on hospice about a month ago. I have been working with him every day to regain his strength and he has been making amazing progress. However, he feels like his days in the Jeep are over, and he has handed it down to me so I can carry the torch forward with my kids. My son absolutely loves this thing as he's just turned 3 and is in his "monster truck" phase. Little back story about my experience, I'm pretty mechanically inclined. However, I have spent the last 10 years of my life in the modified car space so I'm not super familiar with Jeep stuff and what is best for certain applications.

So originally, my Dad had the OG Rancho 9000's on it, but apparently they had started to quit on him. He replaced only the front shocks and (for some reason) chose not to do the rears. So I am looking to match everything up because the Rancho's that are on the rear were probably installed somewhere around 2004-2005 and I'm sure they're tired. So he replaced the front shocks with some Bilstein B8 5100's (P/N: 24-185257). The Jeep currently has a 3" suspension lift and a 1" body lift. So when I did some research on those shocks so I could hopefully find the corresponding rears to go with it, it says that it's for a 3" lift. Do I need to factor in the 1" body lift when purchasing? Did my Dad make an error here, or can I buy the corresponding rears to go with these? If he did accidentally buy the wrong front shocks, what would you guys recommending replacing all 4 corners with?

My apologies for the book here, but I appreciate any help anyone can provide as I try and learn all this stuff lol.

 

[JMT]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here to the Forum (I've been browsing for a couple weeks and just wanted to say this seems like an awesome community and I'm happy to be part of it).

Little back story about my newly acquired TJ: My Dad had bought it back in 2003 as a completely stock specimen. He spent quite a bit of money making into a crawler and throughout my younger years we spent a ton of time off-roading it and having a ton of fun. I was only 13 at the time, so I don't know exactly everything he has done, just a few things I'm aware of (lift, long arms, tummy tuck, wheels/tires, warn hubs up front, 44 rear axle, 30 front axle with upgraded splines, onboard air, air locker up front). We had a ton of fun wheeling this thing around. Now, fast forward to a few months ago, as my Dad has been getting older his health isn't doing so great. So, needless to say the Jeep has just been sitting in his garage collecting dust. It's a 97 and has around 43k miles on it. He recently had a really bad run with his health and spent about a month in the hospital, and was unfortunately sent home on hospice about a month ago. I have been working with him every day to regain his strength and he has been making amazing progress. However, he feels like his days in the Jeep are over, and he has handed it down to me so I can carry the torch forward with my kids. My son absolutely loves this thing as he's just turned 3 and is in his "monster truck" phase. Little back story about my experience, I'm pretty mechanically inclined. However, I have spent the last 10 years of my life in the modified car space so I'm not super familiar with Jeep stuff and what is best for certain applications.

So originally, my Dad had the OG Rancho 9000's on it, but apparently they had started to quit on him. He replaced only the front shocks and (for some reason) chose not to do the rears. So I am looking to match everything up because the Rancho's that are on the rear were probably installed somewhere around 2004-2005 and I'm sure they're tired. So he replaced the front shocks with some Bilstein B8 5100's (P/N: 24-185257). The Jeep currently has a 3" suspension lift and a 1" body lift. So when I did some research on those shocks so I could hopefully find the corresponding rears to go with it, it says that it's for a 3" lift. Do I need to factor in the 1" body lift when purchasing? Did my Dad make an error here, or can I buy the corresponding rears to go with these? If he did accidentally buy the wrong front shocks, what would you guys recommending replacing all 4 corners with?

My apologies for the book here, but I appreciate any help anyone can provide as I try and learn all this stuff lol.

View attachment 439818

View attachment 439819

Welcome to the forum! Congrats on inheriting the TJ. Really cool.

To address your question, one of the great things about a body lift is it doesn’t require getting longer shocks. If you look under the front wheel well you’ll notice that the upper shock tower is attached to the frame, not the tub, so when the tub is raised off the frame with the body lift it doesn’t change the shock mount locations.

As per shock choice, Bilstein 5100’s are a good shock, but not for light TJ’s. They are overly stiff. Something like a proper length Rancho 5000X or Skyjacker Black Max shock would be more compliant. I’ve seen a few who use the Rancho 5000X up front and the Skyjacker Black Max in the rear and claim that works best.

 

[Skees]

Welcome to the forum! Congrats on inheriting the TJ. Really cool.

To address your question, one of the great things about a body lift is it doesn’t require getting longer shocks. If you look under the front wheel well you’ll notice that the upper shock tower is attached to the frame, not the tub, so when the tub is raised off the frame with the body lift it doesn’t change the shock mount locations.

As per shock choice, Bilstein 5100’s are a good shock, but not for light TJ’s. They are overly stiff. Something like a proper length Rancho 5000X or Skyjacker Black Max shock would be more compliant. I’ve seen a few who use the Rancho 5000X up front and the Skyjacker Black Max in the rear and claim that works best.

Awesome, thank you for the recommendation! In my mind, what you're saying about the BL not factoring in made sense because when I inspected the shock mounting points I also noticed it was attached to the frame. I just wanted to be certain so I don't go spending money on new shocks to have them destroy themselves on the trail and potentially leave me stranded. I'll take a look at the Rancho/SkyJacker combo and price that out. The Rancho's seem to be substantially cheaper in cost than the Bilsteins so that's nice. Worst case, I'll just go Rancho on all 4 corners. Thank you again for your recommendation!

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I wouldn't even consider Skyjacker
I loved my previous Rancho RS5000X shocks and I wish I still had them. The Bilstein 5100 shocks are known to be a little stiff riding for a typical TJ. And I'm especially sorry about your dad too.

 

[Danarch]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your dads health. Sounds like great Jeep overall.

 

[RINC]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here to the Forum (I've been browsing for a couple weeks and just wanted to say this seems like an awesome community and I'm happy to be part of it).

Little back story about my newly acquired TJ: My Dad had bought it back in 2003 as a completely stock specimen. He spent quite a bit of money making into a crawler and throughout my younger years we spent a ton of time off-roading it and having a ton of fun. I was only 13 at the time, so I don't know exactly everything he has done, just a few things I'm aware of (lift, long arms, tummy tuck, wheels/tires, warn hubs up front, 44 rear axle, 30 front axle with upgraded splines, onboard air, air locker up front). We had a ton of fun wheeling this thing around. Now, fast forward to a few months ago, as my Dad has been getting older his health isn't doing so great. So, needless to say the Jeep has just been sitting in his garage collecting dust. It's a 97 and has around 43k miles on it. He recently had a really bad run with his health and spent about a month in the hospital, and was unfortunately sent home on hospice about a month ago. I have been working with him every day to regain his strength and he has been making amazing progress. However, he feels like his days in the Jeep are over, and he has handed it down to me so I can carry the torch forward with my kids. My son absolutely loves this thing as he's just turned 3 and is in his "monster truck" phase. Little back story about my experience, I'm pretty mechanically inclined. However, I have spent the last 10 years of my life in the modified car space so I'm not super familiar with Jeep stuff and what is best for certain applications.

So originally, my Dad had the OG Rancho 9000's on it, but apparently they had started to quit on him. He replaced only the front shocks and (for some reason) chose not to do the rears. So I am looking to match everything up because the Rancho's that are on the rear were probably installed somewhere around 2004-2005 and I'm sure they're tired. So he replaced the front shocks with some Bilstein B8 5100's (P/N: 24-185257). The Jeep currently has a 3" suspension lift and a 1" body lift. So when I did some research on those shocks so I could hopefully find the corresponding rears to go with it, it says that it's for a 3" lift. Do I need to factor in the 1" body lift when purchasing? Did my Dad make an error here, or can I buy the corresponding rears to go with these? If he did accidentally buy the wrong front shocks, what would you guys recommending replacing all 4 corners with?

My apologies for the book here, but I appreciate any help anyone can provide as I try and learn all this stuff lol.

View attachment 439818

View attachment 439819

Welcome!

 

[voodooridr]

I have the BlackMax on my LJ, I really want to love them, they have a smooth ride on most pavement and hold pretty stable when pushing corners but they seem to be in over their heads when it comes to rough, pot holed pavement. They don't feel like they can control the weight of heavy tires in high speed deflection causing the Jeep to feel unstable at speed on rough pavement

 

[Skees]

I wouldn't even consider Skyjacker
I loved my previous Rancho RS5000X shocks and I wish I still had them. The Bilstein 5100 shocks are known to be a little stiff riding for a typical TJ. And I'm especially sorry about your dad too.

Yeah I have been checking out the Ranchos, that'll probably be the way I end up going. It seems to be the consensus that it's a good setup. Thank you for the recommendations and condolences. I'm hoping I can work with him and get him to beat this! He's showing some very promising progress

 

[Skees]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your dads health. Sounds like great Jeep overall.

Thank you for the welcome! It's a ton of fun, I'm going to get more information from him on everything that's on it so I can at least be aware of what I've got lol.

 

[Skees]

Welcome!
View attachment 439823

Thank you very much

 

[Skees]

I have the BlackMax on my LJ, I really want to love them, they have a smooth ride on most pavement and hold pretty stable when pushing corners but they seem to be in over their heads when it comes to rough, pot holed pavement. They don't feel like they can control the weight of heavy tires in high speed deflection causing the Jeep to feel unstable at speed on rough pavement

Yeah maybe the SkyJacker stuff isn't suited for me then. I have 2 other vehicles so this won't be a daily by any means. More of a toy to take out and have fun with the wife and kids. It's regeared so this thing can barely get over 60 on the highway lol. Currently on 35"s and with all the suspension work done to it already I don't need anymore help with instability lol.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Yeah maybe the SkyJacker stuff isn't suited for me then. I have 2 other vehicles so this won't be a daily by any means. More of a toy to take out and have fun with the wife and kids. It's regeared so this thing can barely get over 60 on the highway lol. Currently on 35"s and with all the suspension work done to it already I don't need anymore help with instability lol.

Skyjacker receives very little positive support in most forums, there's not much they make I'd ever install. And that your TJ can barely get over 60 means it needs to be regeared, not that it was regeared. At least not regeared to the right ratio. With your 3-speed automatic I'd regear them to 4.56 for your 35's.

And so far as the stability goes, do you know if both the front and rear antiswaybars are installed and connected via their links that bolt to the axles? The TJ has coil springs at all four corners and coil springs are not stable, they benefit from having the antiswaybars connected. There's more to when to disconnect or leave connected offroad but for onroad stability, especially with 35's and the suspension height to run them both should be installed and properly bolted to the axles.

 

[Skees]

Skyjacker receives very little positive support in most forums, there's not much they make I'd ever install. And that your TJ can barely get over 60 means it needs to be regeared, not that it was regeared. At least not regeared to the right ratio. With your 3-speed automatic I'd regear them to 4.56 for your 35's.

And so far as the stability goes, do you know if both the front and rear antiswaybars are installed and connected via their links that bolt to the axles? The TJ has coil springs at all four corners and coil springs are not stable, they benefit from having the antiswaybars connected. There's more to when to disconnect or leave connected offroad but for onroad stability, especially with 35's and the suspension height to run them both should be installed and properly bolted to the axles.

Okay I'll talk with my Dad tomorrow and figure out what gears he has in there and make some changes if needed. It's pretty terrible to drive on the street outside of basic city driving. Oh and I forgot to mention the back is locked, not sure if that makes any difference.

I took some pics of the front and rear axle while I was out tooling around on it earlier, it looks like the rear is there and the front has the detachable links but everything looks like it's where it should be. It just has a lot of body roll in turns and things like that. Seeing as this is really the only Jeep I've ever driven, I figured that was normal. From what you're saying, it sounds like it's not normal lol.

Here's the pics, and I want to thank you and everyone else for your help with all of this. I really appreciate it.

 

[AndyG]

Hey - great story, great platform- this is where you need to be. Your son is just getting to a great age- that Jeep and being with you will mean the world to him.

This forum will be an asset.

Love to see you around.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Okay I'll talk with my Dad tomorrow and figure out what gears he has in there and make some changes if needed. It's pretty terrible to drive on the street outside of basic city driving. Oh and I forgot to mention the back is locked, not sure if that makes any difference.

I took some pics of the front and rear axle while I was out tooling around on it earlier, it looks like the rear is there and the front has the detachable links but everything looks like it's where it should be. It just has a lot of body roll in turns and things like that. Seeing as this is really the only Jeep I've ever driven, I figured that was normal. From what you're saying, it sounds like it's not normal lol.

Here's the pics, and I want to thank you and everyone else for your help with all of this. I really appreciate it.

View attachment 439988

View attachment 439989

Great those photos confirm you have both antiswaybars installed and that they're conected properly.

It's now time to assume one or any combination of these following potential issues are causing its problems. Worn out shock absorbers, bad alignment, improper air pressure, a bad or broken control arm or track bar, rusted out suspension mounts or suspension components, etc.. It's just about eliminating, one at a time, those possible sources of the problems or other possibilities not uncovered yet.

 

[Rickyd]

I'm curious which high pinion rear axle it has?

 

[Skees]

Hey - great story, great platform- this is where you need to be. Your son is just getting to a great age- that Jeep and being with you will mean the world to him.

This forum will be an asset.

Love to see you around.

I'm very excited about it all, I just wish the circumstances were different. However, this is how it goes sometimes and I can be happy that my Dad is doing better and he will find a ton of joy in the Jeep getting some use and with his grandkids.

Thank you for the kind words, I greatly appreciate it.

 

[Skees]

Great those photos confirm you have both antiswaybars installed and that they're conected properly.

It's now time to assume one or any combination of these following potential issues are causing its problems. Worn out shock absorbers, bad alignment, improper air pressure, a bad or broken control arm or track bar, rusted out suspension mounts or suspension components, etc.. It's just about eliminating, one at a time, those possible sources of the problems or other possibilities not uncovered yet.

Well I'm glad they're both there and installed lol that's good news. I know for a fact that those rear shocks are old (from 2004-2006) so I'm really hoping that the new shocks will help out a lot. When I looked at all the mount points before, everything seemed very clean. The truck has been in SoCal since 2003 and my Dad bought it from a guy in Arizona so no salt and it has been garage parked it's entire life. Also very low mileage still (~44k). I'm pretty sure the alignment is off, so that's something I'll want to get addressed. The tire wear looks to be sloping so I'm going to assume the alignment needs to be done. Once I get all 4 corners replaced I'll go ahead and take it in and have it squared up. Before I took it home, I climbed underneath and gave everything a very hard pull to check for deflection and there wasn't any movement on any of the suspension parts. I'll get back underneath it and give it a more thorough inspection. I'm also going to check tire pressure tomorrow because I wouldn't be surprised if the pressure was high. What would you recommend for PSI on these tires? Thank you so much again for your help, I really appreciate it!

 

[Skees]

I'm curious which high pinion rear axle it has?

It's a Dana 44 rear axle, I'm not sure if that completely answers your question though lol.

 

[Rickyd]

24-26 psi for 35s?