What makes a good shock for an outboard?

[PNW_LJ]

What should one be looking for when choosing a shock for an outboard?

Is any rebuildable 2.0 12” shock going to work the same once tuned?


I can get a set of like new JL-specific Fox shocks for a steal, wondering if that changes things:

https://accutuneoffroad.com/product/18-jeep-wrangler-jl-front-2-0-fox-shocks-ps-r-r-12-4-5-6-lift/

 

[HornedToad]

The go-to shock here is the smooth body fox factory series 2.0 remote reservoir (12in version for the rear and 11in version for the front).

It is not used in oem vehicles nor is it vehicle specific but rather a high quality, simple off-road shock. I won't get too much into what makes a shock tunable or not and there are technically other options that are "tunable" such as the Bilstein 7100 series but this particular fox shock is the only one I am aware of that shock tuners have taken the time to develop a flutter stack tune specific to the tj. If you were to hand shock tuners anything else they would need to start from scratch with testing different shim stacks.

The two available tuners that come to mind are Fullstack motorsports and Alltech motorsports. Mine were tuned by Alltech (tj base tune) and I am very happy with them.

I'm not sure if either of these places can do much with those oem jl shocks but you can certainly ask them. If they use the same piston as fox 2.0 factory series then they may work.

 

[jjvw]

Fox 2.0 with Poly Performance coilover towers packages very well.

 

[jjvw]

The go-to shock here is the smooth body fox factory series 2.0 remote reservoir (12in version for the rear and 11in version for the front).

It is not used in oem vehicles nor is it vehicle specific but rather a high quality, simple off-road shock. I won't get too much into what makes a shock tunable or not and there are technically other options that are "tunable" such as the Bilstein 7100 series but this particular fox shock is the only one I am aware of that shock tuners have taken the time to develop a flutter stack tune specific to the tj. If you were to hand shock tuners anything else they would need to start from scratch with testing different shim stacks.

The two available tuners that come to mind are Fullstack motorsports and Alltech motorsports. Mine were tuned by Alltech (tj base tune) and I am very happy with them.

I'm not sure if either of these places can do much with those oem jl shocks but you can certainly ask them.

Alltech is the preferable tuner.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

As I understand it nobody likes to tune the aluminum bodied foxes because of the nitrogen valve used to charge them, and you wouldn't want to be stuck with a shock tuned for a JL with 1200lb more GVWR than your LJ.

I wish there were good options to get a factory race series into stock mounts. I would love a good tuned ride but I'm not sure I really need the extra travel enough to be worth the effort of an outboard. As it stands I would lose 1.25" up travel at each axle, minimum, to swap foxes in place of my ranchos.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Alltech is the preferable tuner.

How so?

 

[PNW_LJ]

The go-to shock here is the smooth body fox factory series 2.0 remote reservoir (12in version for the rear and 11in version for the front).

It is not used in oem vehicles nor is it vehicle specific but rather a high quality, simple off-road shock. I won't get too much into what makes a shock tunable or not and there are technically other options that are "tunable" such as the Bilstein 7100 series but this particular fox shock is the only one I am aware of that shock tuners have taken the time to develop a flutter stack tune specific to the tj. If you were to hand shock tuners anything else they would need to start from scratch with testing different shim stacks.

The two available tuners that come to mind are Fullstack motorsports and Alltech motorsports. Mine were tuned by Alltech (tj base tune) and I am very happy with them.

I'm not sure if either of these places can do much with those oem jl shocks but you can certainly ask them. If they use the same piston as fox 2.0 factory series then they may work.

That helps, thank you.

 

[PNW_LJ]

As I understand it nobody likes to tune the aluminum bodied foxes because of the nitrogen valve used to charge them, and you wouldn't want to be stuck with a shock tuned for a JL with 1200lb more GVWR than your LJ.

I wish there were good options to get a factory race series into stock mounts. I would love a good tuned ride but I'm not sure I really need the extra travel enough to be worth the effort of an outboard. As it stands I would lose 1.25" up travel at each axle, minimum, to swap foxes in place of my ranchos.

That does suck. With stock mounts you either choose crappy travel ratio or crappy valving.

 

[jjvw]

How so?

The owner is a very good tuner with a very strong background in racing and making rigs perform very well for many different uses in many different environments.

 

[HornedToad]

The owner is a very good tuner with a very strong background in racing and making rigs perform very well for many different uses in many different environments.

Wayne right?
And on the topic of conversation, do you have the lsc version of these shocks? And if you do would you recommend them over the non-adjustable version?

 

[jjvw]

Wayne right?
And on the topic of conversation, do you have the lsc version of these shocks? And if you do would you recommend them over the non-adjustable version?

Yes Wayne.

My rears have the LSC adjusters. I don't have much opinion either way on them. Mainly because I rarely do anything with them. When I swapped back and forth between the hard and soft top, I would change a click to stiffen things up for the added weight. Especially with both the hardtop and full hard doors, the added weight is enough to adjust for. On the occasion that the rear is loaded heavily with camping gear, I'll add some damping.

The other fun thing I have done for people is to show them how dramatically different the ride is just by cranking the knob between highest and lowest. It helps take the wind out of the spring tuner's sails.

 

[HornedToad]

Yes Wayne.

My rears have the LSC adjusters. I don't have much opinion either way on them. Mainly because I rarely do anything with them. When I swapped back and forth between the hard and soft top, I would change a click to stiffen things up for the added weight. Especially with both the hardtop and full hard doors, the added weight is enough to adjust for. On the occasion that the rear is loaded heavily with camping gear, I'll add some damping.

The other fun thing I have done for people is to show them how dramatically different the ride is just by cranking the knob between highest and lowest. It helps take the wind out of the spring tuner's sails.

Wow interesting that your ride height changes. I wonder why that is since it is theoretically only changing the amount of damping?

There have been times I've wished I had more adjustability but not ever nearly enough to go through all the trouble and expense to actually obtain some. I think my shocks are perfect on rough trails but when I am fully unloaded and driving on the street I wish my shocks would use a little more travel on the choppy pot-holey sections we have everywhere around here.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Is it cheaper to get LSC up front?

If one does have a significant ride height difference, (say 1.5” lower when loaded with gear), is it better to outboard so as to have 50/50 bias when loaded or unloaded?

 

[jjvw]

Wow interesting that your ride height changes. I wonder why that is since it is theoretically only changing the amount of damping?

There have been times I've wished I had more adjustability but not ever nearly enough to go through all the trouble and expense to actually obtain some. I think my shocks are perfect on rough trails but when I am fully unloaded and driving on the street I wish my shocks would use a little more travel on the choppy pot-holey sections we have everywhere around here.

While I am a big proponent of up travel, the shock tune itself plays a significant role in how things like potholes and washboards get transmitted into the driver's seat. A good tune can remove a very large amount of jitteriness while still providing a great level of stability and movement control.

If all one knows are off the shelf shocks, there is a very different world of handling available through a capable shock tuner.

 

[jjvw]

Is it cheaper to get LSC up front?

If one does have a significant ride height difference, (say 1.5” lower when loaded with gear), is it better to outboard so as to have 50/50 bias when loaded or unloaded?

The cost is the same regardless of which end they land on. Mine has them in the rear because the first pair of foxes shocks I bought of Craigslist had them, along with a very early Alltech TJ tune. The fronts, also from CL and years later, did not have the adjusters. No other reason.

When building your mounts, you set them for 50/50 for the rig's weight configuration where you want the optimal shock performance. If you are seesawing between stripped bare and full overland pretend military assault glamping campaign, then you have some hard decisions you need to make. Because one tune is not going to be optimal for both.

 

[HornedToad]

While I am a big proponent of up travel, the shock tune itself plays a significant role in how things like potholes and washboards get transmitted into the driver's seat. A good tune can remove a very large amount of jitteriness while still providing a great level of stability and movement control.

If all one knows are off the shelf shocks, there is a very different world of handling available through a capable shock tuner.

Mine have 6in of up-travel, and they have the alltech tj base tune. The handling compared to the ranchos I used to run is night and day and I might add that in the rocks the body motion is very well controlled compared to the old ranchos. But I still do get some on road jitteriness. Maybe I need to send them back to Alltech to get the tuned lightened a bit.

 

[Brianj5600]

As I understand it nobody likes to tune the aluminum bodied foxes because of the nitrogen valve used to charge them, and you wouldn't want to be stuck with a shock tuned for a JL with 1200lb more GVWR than your LJ.

I think that is only for the non remote reservoir shocks.

 

[jjvw]

Mine have 6in of up-travel, and they have the alltech tj base tune. The handling compared to the ranchos I used to run is night and day and I might add that in the rocks the body motion is very well controlled compared to the old ranchos. But I still do get some on road jitteriness. Maybe I need to send them back to Alltech to get the tuned lightened a bit.

Having both ends is a more dramatic change than just the rear. Mine also has a more current tune front and rear, which was noticably nicer than the already well done rear from many years before.

 

[PNW_LJ]

The cost is the same regardless of which end they land on. Mine has them in the rear because the first pair of foxes shocks I bought of Craigslist had them, along with a very early Alltech TJ tune. The fronts, also from CL and years later, did not have the adjusters. No other reason.

When building your mounts, you set them for 50/50 for the rig's weight configuration where you want the optimal shock performance. If you are seesawing between stripped bare and full overland pretend military assault glamping campaign, then you have some hard decisions you need to make. Because one tune is not going to be optimal for both.

That puts things in perspective, much appreciated.

That means I need to figure out my spare tire situation first. And figure out my trail carry situation second.


I seemingly recall you mentioning in another thread, that you dropped your tire carrier bumper after the outboard, which changed your travel bias. Did you end up restoring it back to 50/50?

And you mention the 50/50 configuration, is that based on build philosopy or the position of the flutter stacks?

 

[PNW_LJ]

As I understand it nobody likes to tune the aluminum bodied foxes because of the nitrogen valve used to charge them, and you wouldn't want to be stuck with a shock tuned for a JL with 1200lb more GVWR than your LJ.

I wish there were good options to get a factory race series into stock mounts. I would love a good tuned ride but I'm not sure I really need the extra travel enough to be worth the effort of an outboard. As it stands I would lose 1.25" up travel at each axle, minimum, to swap foxes in place of my ranchos.

I wasn’t planning on outboarding until I after my axles were built and new 35s.

However, I am very disappointed in the Black Maxes I got for the rear. The valving feels horrible compared to the front 5000X, every speed bump the rear gets blown through hard.

It’s now also very clear how limited the travel is in the rear, though this hasn’t been a particular problem for me yet.