Metalcloak (or others) control arm orientation question

[Roadhawg011]

Firstly, Yes, I'd rather have Savvy/Currie/Johnny Joint arms but I live in South Africa and most stuff isn't available here (I'mm struggling to even find motor/trans mounts currently). There is a dealer/distributor for Metalcloak here so when I needed arms and bushings, they were the easiest to come by.

Lately I've been dealing with a "hop" under acceleration in lower gears that FEELS like what I'd expect axle wrap to feel like. I thought I should probably re-grease all the MC rm bushings while doing this.

My question (which may be dumb) is which way the single adjustable MC lower arms should be installed. I know the adjustable side goes frame side. But on the axle side, the bushing is offset from the centre of the arm itself. Should the bushing be pointed up, with the arm on the low side (closer to the floor) or the bushing pointing down, with the arm closer to the underside of the jeep?

I have them with the bushings on the high side currently, and it seems like the other way around would bind quicker at droop....with the arm hitting the axle/mount sooner. I cant find any definitive answer online for this.

Like: O____

Or: O‾‾‾‾‾‾

??

 

[JMT]

Firstly, Yes, I'd rather have Savvy/Currie/Johnny Joint arms but I live in South Africa and most stuff isn't available here (I'mm struggling to even find motor/trans mounts currently). There is a dealer/distributor for Metalcloak here so when I needed arms and bushings, they were the easiest to come by.

Lately I've been dealing with a "hop" under acceleration in lower gears that FEELS like what I'd expect axle wrap to feel like. I thought I should probably re-grease all the MC rm bushings while doing this.

My question (which may be dumb) is which way the single adjustable MC lower arms should be installed. I know the adjustable side goes frame side. But on the axle side, the bushing is offset from the centre of the arm itself. Should the bushing be pointed up, with the arm on the low side (closer to the floor) or the bushing pointing down, with the arm closer to the underside of the jeep?

I have them with the bushings on the high side currently, and it seems like the other way around would bind quicker at droop....with the arm hitting the axle/mount sooner. I cant find any definitive answer online for this.

Like: O____

Or: O‾‾‾‾‾‾

??

Axle wrap is related to leaf springs.

 

[sab]

Like: O____

I found the answer on their website in 30 seconds for you. Here are the photos from their product page for those control arms:

And now I have to go shower. Their website makes me feel dirty - it's like watching a ShamWow commercial (you probably don't get those in South Africa)!

 

[Roadhawg011]

I found the answer on their website in 30 seconds for you. Here are the photos from their product page for those control arms:

View attachment 709125

View attachment 709126

And now I have to go shower. Their website makes me feel dirty - it's like watching a ShamWow commercial (you probably don't get those in South Africa)!

Dammit how the hell didnt I see that. I went through the full installation instructions expecting it but it never really showed



We actually did have the ShamWow infomercials

 

[Roadhawg011]

Axle wrap is related to leaf springs.

Yeh I know, sorry I should’ve specified. It FEELS like that. Like the power comes in, something winds up and releases like axle wrap would.
Worse in first and 2nd gears, and even worse in low range.
Driveline is all good and the bushings look good so next stop is motor and trans mounts if I can find.

 

[jjvw]

Axle wrap is related to leaf springs.

I have watched axle wrap happen with Metalcloak arms because the bushing material is so soft. It is the same reason their arms add an overall sense of sloppyness to the suspension compared to a arms using Johnny Joints. I have also experienced this.

 

[jjvw]

Yeh I know, sorry I should’ve specified. It FEELS like that. Like the power comes in, something winds up and releases like axle wrap would.
Worse in first and 2nd gears, and even worse in low range.
Driveline is all good and the bushings look good so next stop is motor and trans mounts if I can find.

At the risk of defending Metalcloak, something else is going on. Axle wrap would almost certainly result in driveshaft vibrations as the pinion raises, which was occurring in what I saw.

 

[Roadhawg011]

I have watched axle wrap happen with Metalcloak arms because the bushing material is so soft. It is the same reason their arms add an overall sense of sloppyness to the suspension compared to a arms using Johnny Joints. I have also experienced this.

I am really hoping this isn’t the answer to my problem. Because I’m kinda stuck with them.

 

[Roadhawg011]

At the risk of defending Metalcloak, something else is going on. Axle wrap would almost certainly result in driveshaft vibrations as the pinion raises, which was occurring in what I saw.

I need to double check wheel balancing etc but I do have some vibes even though the pinion angle seems good.

My TC did have that weird harmonic damper/balancer that I obviously lost when doing SYE. I have heard some people that had that kinda always have some vibes.

 

[jjvw]

I am really hoping this isn’t the answer to my problem. Because I’m kinda stuck with them.

My condolences, either way.

 

[GoldenGorilla]

If you're able to get them, the best motor mount available are the Korean made
ANCHOR INDUSTRIES PART NUMBER: 053-2883. And transmission mount ANCHOR INDUSTRIES PART NUMBER: 053-2882.

The India made mounts under OMIX and others can be sized improperly.

I'm not defending Metalcloak's web presence either, but did choose their arms a couple years ago. I am not pushing their limits of flex the way I use my TJ. Have about 20,000km on them currently. I haven't had anything like this hop you mention, even when hammering through hundreds of miles of terrible washboard roads. I'd also look at the rear shocks and their mounts and bushings.
Very fine sand dust worked it's way into all the frame side bushings on the 4 front arms on a trip I did in June. They started creaking. They need to be pulled, cleaned and regreased one at a time with some silione+ptfe grease at this point. I did one the other day in about 20 minutes.

 

[GoldenGorilla]

I need to double check wheel balancing etc but I do have some vibes even though the pinion angle seems good.

My TC did have that weird harmonic damper/balancer that I obviously lost when doing SYE. I have heard some people that had that kinda always have some vibes.

I've always had some minor vibes with my Rubicon since new, but on the high speed side. Something you just barely feel through the seat and it causes the the rearview mirror to vibrate a bit such that trailing car headlights blur.

I still have the 241OR's unique harmonic balancer. On the stock 4.10s the vibration was at 82mph. Changing to 4.56 brought that down to 70mph. It's always been caused by the front shaft. But I think internal engine balance harmonic is related as it's worse in 4th gear when everything is 1:1. In 5th it oscillates on a 2 second interval. It's worse when both shafts are installed and not there at all with rear shaft only. I will be testing that theory soon as I have a new stroker crankshaft that was balanced.

It is also angle sensitive and came in at a lower speed when I changed the angles with a different belly skid and motor mount lift. I can manipulate the speed higher where it kicks in by adjusting the front axle angle, but give up caster.

It's worth pulling your driveshafts one at a time to figure out which is driving the issue, and also fine tune the rear angle if you're running a double cardan (aka DC or CV) rear shaft.

 

[Roadhawg011]

I've always had some minor vibes with my Rubicon since new, but on the high speed side. Something you just barely feel through the seat and it causes the the rearview mirror to vibrate a bit such that trailing car headlights blur.

I still have the 241OR's unique harmonic balancer. On the stock 4.10s the vibration was at 82mph. Changing to 4.56 brought that down to 70mph. It's always been caused by the front shaft. But I think internal engine balance harmonic is related as it's worse in 4th gear when everything is 1:1. In 5th it oscillates on a 2 second interval. It's worse when both shafts are installed and not there at all with rear shaft only. I will be testing that theory soon as I have a new stroker crankshaft that was balanced.

It is also angle sensitive and came in at a lower speed when I changed the angles with a different belly skid and motor mount lift. I can manipulate the speed higher where it kicks in by adjusting the front axle angle, but give up caster.

It's worth pulling your driveshafts one at a time to figure out which is driving the issue, and also fine tune the rear angle if you're running a double cardan (aka DC or CV) rear shaft.

Yeh I've been meaning to pull driveshafts to see about the vibes, but also to see if the hop happens in FWD as well. Just going through a divorce and only recently had the space to actually work on the Jeep again.....But finding the mental capacity to actualy get into it sometimes is pretty hard right now.

ANYWAY. I'll start regreasing those duroflex bushings and make the best of em so long. The LCA I did last night seemed bone dry, with one of the housings having some rubber depositted on it. I cleaned it up with steel wool and carb cleaner relubed it.

 

[Roadhawg011]

Oh and I have the stupid valve cover leak too. Did the RMS (which was probably needed anyway) but it's still leaving it's mark. FFS>

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I have watched axle wrap happen with Metalcloak arms because the bushing material is so soft. It is the same reason their arms add an overall sense of sloppyness to the suspension compared to a arms using Johnny Joints. I have also experienced this.

are they softer than the OEM bushings?

 

[jjvw]

are they softer than the OEM bushings?

I can surmise that Metelcloak bushings are a lower durometer than OEM bushings simply because a Metalcloak control arm provides it's misalignment capability entirely through the elasticity of the bushings. Whereas the OEM control arm uses both the elasticty of the bushings and the twisting of the arm itself.

 

[Roadhawg011]

Are there ANY MC fans here to reassure me?

 

[John Cooper]

Are there ANY MC fans here to reassure me?

I have Metalcloak double adjustable arms on BB, because thats what my wife and daughters bought me for Christmas a few years ago, I wanted Savvy but they couldn't get an answer if the Savvy arms were available.

So far I haven't had any issues with them, but when the ends do go bad I will be replacing them with Johnny Joint ends.

 

[Apparition]

Are there ANY MC fans here to reassure me?

I've been running MC aluminum double adjustable since 2018.

I've wheeled fairly hard stuff and been satisfied.

I've also never replaced or greased a joint.

They aren't the best but they have worked for me.

 

[Roadhawg011]

Thanks.

Neither of you guys hd any "hopping" sensation on pullaway and 2nd?

It's like that jerky driving of someone who's never driven a TJ, but I've had mine for 18years and this was never a thing before.