16" versus super 16" big brake kit

[Steel City 06]

I’ve been looking into purchasing a big brake kit for some time now.

My current plan is to run 315/75R16 on the factory MOAB wheels, likely with 1.25” spacers.

Which kit (16” versus Super 16”) would be more appropriate for that size of tire? I haven’t found any good resources that go into when one should be used versus the other.

I live in a rather hilly area (Appalachia) and intend to pull a small trailer (it will have disc brakes) so brake fade is a concern. Vehicle is used 90+% on road, with a good mix of stop and go and freeway driving.

I don’t see myself going any larger than 35” in the future.

Additionally, I would like to install the kit before a lift and larger tires so the braking capacity is not compromised. Can I simply install OE material pads that fit the calipers until after the wheels are installed? With the stock 31” tires I don’t think I could properly keep a set of BMB pads broken in. If so, what pads would I need to buy?

 

[mrblaine]

I’ve been looking into purchasing a big brake kit for some time now.

My current plan is to run 315/75R16 on the factory MOAB wheels, likely with 1.25” spacers.

Which kit (16” versus Super 16”) would be more appropriate for that size of tire? I haven’t found any good resources that go into when one should be used versus the other.

I live in a rather hilly area (Appalachia) and intend to pull a small trailer (it will have disc brakes) so brake fade is a concern. Vehicle is used 90+% on road, with a good mix of stop and go and freeway driving.

I don’t see myself going any larger than 35” in the future.

Additionally, I would like to install the kit before a lift and larger tires so the braking capacity is not compromised. Can I simply install OE material pads that fit the calipers until after the wheels are installed? With the stock 31” tires I don’t think I could properly keep a set of BMB pads broken in. If so, what pads would I need to buy?

The Super was designed for the Moab rim to be the most brake you can fit in there with the stock rims. For what you describe, I'd recommend the Super version and use the Posi-quiet pads until you need or want more braking.

 

[Steel City 06]

Thanks! I’ll probably be ordering from you soon, hopefully within a month. Do you sell the Posi pads or do I need to purchase those elsewhere?

 

[mrblaine]

Thanks! I’ll probably be ordering from you soon, hopefully within a month. Do you sell the Posi pads or do I need to purchase those elsewhere?

We are a Centric Dealer and I can pull a set in ahead of time. In fact, if you order the kit with no other discount, I'll throw in the extra pads as long as you can wait for them to get here and we order at least once a week.

 

[Steel City 06]

Thanks again!

One last question:
I’ve considered the possibility of using line locks like the Mico lock to supplement the parking brake in case I need to use a winch to pull someone out. I drive a manual so I can’t park and run the engine simultaneously.

https://www.mico.com/products/brake-actuation/brake-locks/electric-activated-lock
Do you have any experience with these? If so, can I put it on the front axle (to take advantage of the larger calipers) or only the rear? If I put it on the front I believe I’d have to put it before the proportioning valve unless I purchase 2 kits or a dual kit.

 

[mrblaine]

Thanks again!

One last question:
I’ve considered the possibility of using line locks like the Mico lock to supplement the parking brake in case I need to use a winch to pull someone out. I drive a manual so I can’t park and run the engine simultaneously.

https://www.mico.com/products/brake-actuation/brake-locks/electric-activated-lock
Do you have any experience with these? If so, can I put it on the front axle (to take advantage of the larger calipers) or only the rear? If I put it on the front I believe I’d have to put it before the proportioning valve unless I purchase 2 kits or a dual kit.

Yes, you can use the Mico Lock to assist. Just put them on the front circuit and the use 4 low. The front will also lock the rear brakes through the t-case. Even better if you have lockers. Be aware that most of those types of brake pressure locking valves won't release until you get the pressure in the caliper to be the same as it was when applied or higher. If that happens, just open a bleeder to release the excess pressure and the valve will unlock.

 

[Steel City 06]

Good to know.
Are the more expensive Mico Lock kits worth it versus something cheaper like a simple line lock?

https://www.jegs.com/c/Brakes-Drivetrain_Line-Lock-Roll-Control-Kits-Components/10159/10002/-1
Only differences I see is that these cheaper ones are just a basic valve and not a check valve, and that they don’t come with a low pressure alarm circuit.

 

[mrblaine]

Good to know.
Are the more expensive Mico Lock kits worth it versus something cheaper like a simple line lock?

https://www.jegs.com/c/Brakes-Drivetrain_Line-Lock-Roll-Control-Kits-Components/10159/10002/-1
Only differences I see is that these cheaper ones are just a basic valve and not a check valve, and that they don’t come with a low pressure alarm circuit.

The basic difference as I understand it and my info could be dated, the line locks and similar are not constant duty rated are will burn up the coils when used for extended periods of time. At least that used to be true. Pretty much like the difference between a starter solenoid and a constant duty solenoid.

 

[Steel City 06]

That’s what I suspected. I’ve seen them for sale on several 4x4 websites, like this:
http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/electric-brake-line-lock-kit.htmlThey give the “short periods of time” warning, but specifically don’t specify a time, probably for legal reasons. Some racing websites say 3 minutes or even 30 seconds for ones designed for burnouts.

I seem to recall the Mico locks recommending pressure be reset after an hour, which would be more than sufficient for winching.

 

[Steel City 06]

@mrblaine do you happen to know which fittings are on the line between the master cylinder and combination block for the front brakes?
It looks like the best place to plumb the Mico lock is going to be between the master cylinder and combo block.

The Mico lock uses 1/8-27 NPTF fittings.
Any recommendations for flexible hoses, or should I plan on bending and flaring lines?

Edit: Answer was found here:
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/brake-line-fittings-what-were-they-thinking.28452/

 

[Steel City 06]

@mrblaine what size banjo bolt do you recommend for the Super 16 and 17" big brake kits?
Apparently I over-torqued one and stretched it. Pulled it out and it was necked.

I tried using the generic TJ ones, Mopar 6035911AA. They thread in to the front Super 16" calipers, but are too long. They fit in the rear calipers perfectly.

 

[mrblaine]

@mrblaine what size banjo bolt do you recommend for the Super 16 and 17" big brake kits?
Apparently I over-torqued one and stretched it. Pulled it out and it was necked.

I tried using the generic TJ ones, Mopar 6035911AA. They thread in to the front Super 16" calipers, but are too long. They fit in the rear calipers perfectly.

The Super 16 and 17 calipers use a 10mm banjo. While the 3/8" version from the smaller TJ front and rear calipers along with the caliper from the 15/16" kits, will thread in, it will never hold in the threads at any appropriate tightness level. You are looking for 08-up Ram 1500 front caliper banjo bolts. OEM have a reduced head that is 11mm.

 

[Steel City 06]

The Super 16 and 17 calipers use a 10mm banjo. While the 3/8" version from the smaller TJ front and rear calipers along with the caliper from the 15/16" kits, it will never hold in the threads at any appropriate tightness level. You are looking for 08-up Ram 1500 front caliper banjo bolts. OEM have a reduced head that is 11mm.

Thanks for the information, especially the thread size. Really glad I asked because I was about to run a 3/8-24 bolt.

It looks like Dorman 13940 is the correct thread, and based on the remaining gap, should be just barely short enough. It's also available on RockAuto for $3.36 and at most auto parts stores for twice that. Appears to also have a 11mm head.

Edit: Dorman part number is NOT correct. It needs to be a M10x1.0 bolt.

 

[PatMc]

Thanks for the information, especially the thread size. Really glad I asked because I was about to run a 3/8-24 bolt.

It looks like Dorman 13940 is the correct thread, and based on the remaining gap, should be just barely short enough. It's also available on RockAuto for $3.36 and at most auto parts stores for twice that. Appears to also have a 11mm head.

Edit: Dorman part number is NOT correct. It needs to be a M10x1.0 bolt.

Carlson H9477-2 is what you need. BrakeBest (O'reilly) uses the same part number.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...8636f44d3c35/brakebest-banjo-bolt/bhh0/h94772

 

[Steel City 06]

Carlson H9477-2 is what you need. BrakeBest (O'reilly) uses the same part number.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...8636f44d3c35/brakebest-banjo-bolt/bhh0/h94772

Unfortunately it looks like that bolt would be too long to work...
Ended up ordering the Dodge branded ones.

 

[PatMc]

Unfortunately it looks like that bolt would be too long to work...
Ended up ordering the Dodge branded ones.

I can assure you they're not too long.

 

[mrblaine]

I can assure you they're not too long.

We don't what oddball banjo fitting he is dealing with otherwise I would agree with you 100%.